little bit of paranoia

[Fishie]

hey guys, got a new tank its 63(L)x22.5(W)x24(H) - about 145Gallons

 

I have never kept a tank on my main living space...this will be my first...

 

I am putting it near the kitchen area...on some kind of ceramic tile(which will make clean ups very easy)

 

Now my ideal tank position has it sitting over my basement where the 2x4s are running parallel to the tank...they are spaced about 14"apart

 

this is a peninsula ( so i pushed the Width end close to a load bearing wall) but the length of the tank isn't

 

how worried should i be if i proceed without boosting the subfloor...my basement has a recessed ceiling so i would have to cut the ceiling out ...map where the tank is exactly and then boost it with sistering or other methods..then put up the dry wall again and repaint that part... sounds $$

Edited February 28, 2017 by Fishie

[Origami]

I'm pretty sure that you don't mean 2x4's but that you mean larger, floor joists. Unfortunately, joists running parallel is the less desirable of the two options. Second, on a tile floor, if you get much deflection of the subfloor at all, you may find grout cracking and tiles popping loose (if not outright cracking). Being adjacent to a load-bearing wall is good, though.

 

Fully loaded (and assuming it's a glass tank), you're probably looking at 1500 to 2000 pounds.

 

I don't know how much deflection you're really looking at, though. So it may work. 

[Fishie]

I'm pretty sure that you don't mean 2x4's but that you mean larger, floor joists. Unfortunately, joists running parallel is the less desirable of the two options. Second, on a tile floor, if you get much deflection of the subfloor at all, you may find grout cracking and tiles popping loose (if not outright cracking). Being adjacent to a load-bearing wall is good, though.

 

Fully loaded (and assuming it's a glass tank), you're probably looking at 1500 to 2000 pounds.

 

I don't know how much deflection you're really looking at, though. So it may work.

Thanks never thought about that.

 

Here is a pic of tile and tank legs

 

 

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[Origami]

Got a full picture looking at the tank and stand face-on? You say that the floor joists are running parallel (and not perpendicular) to this outside wall? What is the basement like (finished, unfinished)? Could you set a jack post down there if you had to?

[Fishie]

Got a full picture looking at the tank and stand face-on? You say that the floor joists are running parallel (and not perpendicular) to this outside wall? What is the basement like (finished, unfinished)? Could you set a jack post down there if you had to?

FTS

 

 

 

Basement is finished

I have the room in the basement but I looked at the picture of the jack post , don't think I could have it there asthetically

 

Pic of basement ceiling ... the tank is somewhere above that

 

 

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[arking_mark]

Your most likely fine. See this article to ensure location works: http://www.african-cichlid.com/Structure.htm

[Origami]

Your most likely fine. See this article to ensure location works: http://www.african-cichlid.com/Structure.htm

 

Nice link to provide a little dissection of wood frame construction. Great pictures of failed beams and joists, too.

 

 

FTS

 

<picture removed for brevity>

 

 

Basement is finished

I have the room in the basement but I looked at the picture of the jack post , don't think I could have it there asthetically

 

Pic of basement ceiling ... the tank is somewhere above that

<pictured removed>

 

Is the tank parallel or perpendicular to a line running between the two holes in the ceiling? Is this how you determined the direction of the floor joists?

 

Do you have a picture from the room with the leather sofa looking the other way?

 

 

Is there an i-beam nearby?

 

I agree that it's likely that you're OK seeing how you're right next to a load-bearing wall. Because of the way the cabinet  is designed, most of the load is being carried down the back and the sides. If the joists are running parallel to the tank and the tank crosses two of them, then the load from the back is being distributed across one joist while the load on the second, more forward one is concentrated at two points (one of which is 4-5' away from the load-bearing wall/foundation. Just thinking off the top of my head.... One might be able to do a simple beam calculation assuming doubling a 500# point load five or six feet out on the joist span to (conservatively) see if the deflection is acceptable. For this, you'd basically need to know the length of the floor joist (between the supports), the dimensions of the joist, and the material of the joist. This approach would assume that one end of the aquarium was pretty much up against a fixed support (that is, up against a load bearing wall), that half the weight of the tank was carried on the forward joist and that half of that weight was cantilevered out on the extent of the forward-most joist (and that this would be the greater deflection since the joist toward the back has a distributed load). 

[Fishie]

Your most likely fine. See this article to ensure location works: http://www.african-cichlid.com/Structure.htm

 

i saw this, hence the paranoia

 

i initially had mine centered around that thin island...then pushed it back near wall to make load bearing...even tho its closer to windows...which will now get blinds lol

[Fishie]

Nice link to provide a little dissection of wood frame construction. Great pictures of failed beams and joists, too.

 

 

 

Is the tank parallel or perpendicular to a line running between the two holes in the ceiling? Is this how you determined the direction of the floor joists?

 

Do you have a picture from the room with the leather sofa looking the other way?

 

 

Is there an i-beam nearby?

 

I agree that it's likely that you're OK seeing how you're right next to a load-bearing wall. Because of the way the cabinet is designed, most of the load is being carried down the back and the sides. If the joists are running parallel to the tank and the tank crosses two of them, then the load from the back is being distributed across one joist while the load on the second, more forward one is concentrated at two points (one of which is 4-5' away from the load-bearing wall/foundation. Just thinking off the top of my head.... One might be able to do a simple beam calculation assuming doubling a 500# point load five or six feet out on the joist span to (conservatively) see if the deflection is acceptable. For this, you'd basically need to know the length of the floor joist (between the supports), the dimensions of the joist, and the material of the joist. This approach would assume that one end of the aquarium was pretty much up against a fixed support (that is, up against a load bearing wall), that half the weight of the tank was carried on the forward joist and that half of that weight was cantilevered out on the extent of the forward-most joist (and that this would be the greater deflection since the joist toward the back has a distributed load).

Ok here is a pic of opposite side

 

 

Also I outlined how the tank is roughly from the basement ... I don't know exact cause I estimated based on tapping... not sure where the I beam is

 

 

 

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[GraffitiSpotCorals]

It will be very easy to cut a hole in the ceiling and do something to brace the joists together. I would feel better just putting small pieces of boards in lines where the tank goes to connect the joists so the tank doesn't have an edge sitting on a non supported area. I like Tom's idea and double check the weight the area can handle. Then I would make sure all edges are supported.

[arking_mark]

Tile will also use hardibacker board which will make the structure distribute the weight much more evenly. 

[arking_mark]

Picture is unclear.  Looks like a 10 foot span for the beams?  If so, no worries at all as long as the tile was put down correctly.  Worse case scenario, a cracked tile or two...which has nothing to do with floor bearing support.

[Origami]

I'm going to assume that you live in a typical NoVA single family home and that we're looking at a deck out back and that the long axis of the house is aligned perpendicular to the tank. I'm also going to assume that we're looking at a 15' joist span to an i-beam running lengthwise through the house and that the house used 2x12 yellow pine joists. I ran a quick beam deflection calculation (usually used for tank cabinet design but adapting the principle to the joists in your home) putting half the weight (about 900 pounds assumed) out on the center of the beam as a single point load and got a deflection of less than a tenth of an inch. Since you're not out in the middle, it should be less than this. I think that you'll be fine.

 

 

 

Tile will also use hardibacker board which will make the structure distribute the weight much more evenly. 

Interesting observation. But I'm not sure about the shear strength of hardibacker. Are there specs?

[Jon Lazar]

It's tough to tell from pictures where your load bearing structures are.  I think it's important to nail that down.  You're not talking about a new 40g breeder...this is a good-sized tank.

 

I would start by figuring out just how long the joists' span is.  You might ask a general contractor for an estimate on the job.  They won't be able to calculate loads or determine exactly what modifications are needed (or not).  And the cost estimate would depend on how complicated the mitigation is.  But they'd be able to provide an educated guess on the span of the joists based on your foundation and wall layout, and by looking into the ceiling holes.  

 

That would give you better information on a way ahead, as well as a rough cost if you decide to reinforce.

[AlanM]

put some water in it and bounce on the end furthest from the wall.  If it has an alarming amount of bounce you should think about it. You may see it settle a bit once it's full anyway, with the non-wall end sagging.  The tank is a nice big level for measuring static deflection assuming it starts out level on the tile floor.

[Fishie]

thank you all, i will do a bit off all

 

get a quote from a GC, fill some water and test the level and get a measure of the joist size

 

couple other things of note...even without the tank..when running around or walking/stomping...i hear other cabinets /wine glasses rattle ( i assume this is bounce)

 

the tank stand actually has very low profile like a couple mm sized leg things...there are 6 of them (2 on each bottom end of the MDF support) 

 

5/6 are firmly planted, the rear middle one is slightly raised  (allowing a business card to slide a bit .. the tile is very very tad lower there)...my assumption is this will level with water or i'll shim it.

[zygote2k]

fill it with water and jump up and down around the tank to see if it moves.