What...Is...Ich (IT'S ICH!)

[YHSublime]

Recently over the past month, I have found myself in a position of performing a quarantine with all my fish. This position has left me with many inquiries behind the scenes about quarantine, how it should be accomplished, why it should be accomplished, how I am doing it personally, and the ever popular "I have ich in my tank, what do you suggest I do?"

 

I would like to preface this thread with some facts:

 

1. I am not an expert, or even close to being an expert on this subject. Up until a month ago, I had never QT'd anything. Most of my actions were based on suggestions and advice from other forum members, who are way more qualified than I to even write this thread.

 

2. There is a plethora of information out there. You need be able to A.) Have the ability to perform a basic Google search and B.) (This is harder out of the two, but still easy) discern what is fact from fiction.

 

3. WAMAS actually houses a substantial amount of this information, here is a link to a pinned sticky on this subject, and here is a link to my thread from start to present day There is more, lots more, please reference fact #2.

 

OK, enough rambling about facts, you don't care, you want information, what should YOU do? This is a tough decision. Each case, in my opinion, is completely different. You can see how I struggled in my thread to make the decision I did. I can not decide what you should do, but hopefully the information I have compiled here will guide you down a successful path.

 

If you "Reef" like me, the very beginning of starting your tank is when you made the decision to skip a QT tank, or did not consider it a prerequisite to starting a tank. I scoffed at a quarantine tank, and probably mumbled something about "yeah, I'll never need one of those, I've been just fine..." The logic (of course there is logic) is that I was in a 650 square foot apartment, with a 150 gallon tank (lets face it, anything over 50 gallons is probably already too big) and where was I going to put a QT tank?! In the spirit of Holiday Season, if the Ghost of Isaac Future could go back and give the Ghost of Isaac Past a hard winded backhanded slap, he would. Present Isaac has a 50 gallon QT set up in the corner of his living room. I say good job Present Isaac, others may disagree.

 

Setting up a QT is a whole different beast, which I was hoping not to touch on for long, please do your research. The short and simple of it is you need a tank big enough to comfortably house your fish, or fishes separately from your DT. it does not have to be a mansion. It is important to remember that all this equipment needs to be separate from your display tank. This is a whole new system.

 

• Filtration, a HOB filter works fine, and no need to run anything but filter floss.
• A Heater
• I prefer a power head to increase surface agitation, although you can use air stones as well
• A test kit for ammonia. Most regular test kits will be thrown off by medications. Research what works with whatever you may be treating with.
• A separate fish net other than what you use on your DT.
• Some way to cycle it (expendable live rock from your DT, or a sponge that you keep in your DT.)

 

So what am I trying to tell you with all these stories about slapping and quarantine tanks? I will sum it up: If you don't QT, or have somebody else do it for you, then you are rolling the dice. Period.

 

If there is Ich in your tank, it is because you opened the door for it! Yep, YOU! It got in, because guess what, it was on something that you put into your tank without QT’ing. In one of it’s four stages (keep reading, they are coming) you introduced sand, a rock, a frag, a fish, cheateo, water, something that had not been QT’d.

So lets take a look at what Ich actually is. I would like to quote "Faith No More:"

 "what...is...ICH!? It's ICH! What.... is.... ICH?"

 

They nearly had it down, but there is more. Ich is a parasite. And there is even more, it comes in 4 different stages. Tomont, Theront, Trophont, and free swimming Trophont.

 

• In the Tomont stage, the parasite creates a membrane in order to reproduce. This can be on anything. Sand, rock, a frag plug, a coral. Most sources say this can take anywhere from 3-28 days.
• In the Theront stage, those little ich babies have hatched, and they are looking to find them some fish. They are free swimming, and most sources say their life span is usually 24-48 hours.
• Trophont stage is when your little Ich is all grown up. It's on your fish, it's eating, and its visible. This is the only stage in which ich is visible, which most sources say lasts from 3-7 days. Then it drops off and becomes....
• A free swimming Trophont. It's lived it's life to the fullest (it’s still alive,) it's eaten well, and now it knows it needs to find a place to turn back into a Tomont in order to reproduce and keep making your life a living H-E-double hockey sticks. This searching stage can take up to 18 hours, most sources say.

 

After reading about the life cycle of Ich, you should now understand that when you pull all the fish out of your tank, if you have decided to go this route, that your display tank needs to go fallow for what I personally believe should be 8 weeks. If you read around, you will get different opinions on this, but why take the time to QT all your fish, clear your display tank of all said fish, and then add them back into a display that still has Ich? You could, but your time in QT would have been in vain.

 

Other things that make your QT in vain: being lukewarm. Once you start the process of QT’ing everything for/with ich, you need to keep the process for everything. Yes, everything. You can get your fish completely healthy, QT’d and treated, ich free, back into your display tank. Then throw a frag in that you haven’t QT’d with Ich on it and… you’ve got it, square one.

 

So you’re QT’ing your fish, and then you add a frag (sand, rock water, cheato, etc) into your fallow tank, you have reset your 8 week timer. The only exception is if you have in turn properly QT’d said article being added to your tank.

 

So now that you know what Ich is, how should you treat it? There are several ways that can do this, I chose Copper, and treated with Cupramine. Hypo salinity also is suggested. Please read up on these methods, I will not tell you which one is best, as I don’t know.

 

I would like to inform you right now, that sometimes removing your fish from the display tank into a quarantine tank is not the right choice. Many aquarist have ich in their tanks, I would venture to say that most of us do. There are thousands of fish, living and surviving with ich in aquariums all over VA/MD/DC. Sometimes the stress alone of moving an already sick fish into a QT tank can be the final straw. Many believe that a healthy, varied diet is a solution, and that is the key to a healthy fish. This is a decision that you have to decide. Hopefully this information will help you decide what route you want to take if you find yourself dealing with Ich, and maybe it will help somebody just starting decide how they will handle their tanks. I would suggest that you don’t stop reading about it here, like I mentioned, I am far from experienced.

[YHSublime]

I don't know how many times I can stress that I am far from qualified to even begin touching on this subject, but I would like others to jump in with their experiences, and what works. Also, if I got anything wrong, I would hate to spread any misinformation.

[bqq100]

Great write up, I completely agree that no one setup or plan fits for everyone and that everyone will have a different cost/benefit analysis.  My current ich contingency plan (never needed, knock on wood) is a few home depot buckets, couple of heaters, and tank transfer.  That works for me because I only have a couple of small fish.  I also don't think I would go the full 8 week fallow period because I don't QT my frags so there is risk of ich coming back into the tank anyway.  I wish there was a study to see what the real risk factor is for frags/inverts to bring ich from an infected tank to a sterile tank.  

 

Whenever I read another thread about marine velvet I re-evaluate my plans and consider going with full QT/copper treatment, but I haven't convinced myself to go that far yet.

 

Disclaimer: I am also far from qualified on the subject 

[lutz123]

Great start - it's awesome that you are sharing all that you've learned. Imagine the level of expertise you will have with a few more years under your belt! ;-)

[howaboutme]

Great write up Isaac.

 

There should be a distinction between a QT and a HT but for some, it's one of the same. I would classify what you did as a HT, a reactive process.

 

And for Pete's sake, if you don't plan on doing the proactive QTing, please don't get fish that are known ich magnets like tangs. A little google will tell you exactly that and some recent experiences here support that. I think Isaac would agree w/ it, even now.

 

disclaimer. I am also far from qualified.

[zygote2k]

I think that Ich in otherwise healthy fish is like a cold in humans. I rarely treat fish that are sick with it.

I also see a direct correlation between the lack of food being fed to a fish and the increased chance of ick being an issue.

When I introduce Tangs to an existing tank, they almost always develop ich in 24-48 hours and 95% of the time, they act as if nothing is wrong and it clears up.

Fish from poorly kept LFS's, fish that have been recently shipped, fish that are fed sparingly, fish that are overcrowded, and fish that live in dirty water are usually the fishes that get ich and succumb to it.

I find that it's easier to avoid the situations that might cause ich in fish rather than worry about QT or HT to treat ich.

FWIW, our  "QT"  system is just a 200g holding system with regular salinity and zero medicinal treatments. We simply hold the fish for 30 days before selling to clients.

We rarely have disease issues of any kind.

Edited November 26, 2013 by zygote2k

[YHSublime]

Whenever I read another thread about marine velvet I re-evaluate my plans and consider going with full QT/copper treatment, but I haven't convinced myself to go that far yet.

 

I think most don't, until it hits home, or real close to it. At least you have some sort of idea about what you would do, which is more than I had.

 

Great start - it's awesome that you are sharing all that you've learned. Imagine the level of expertise you will have with a few more years under your belt! ;-)

 

Haha, probably not much, but I hope to never stop learning!

 

There should be a distinction between a QT and a HT but for some, it's one of the same. I would classify what you did as a HT, a reactive process.

 

This is an excellent point, good reminder!

 

I think that Ich in otherwise healthy fish is like a cold in humans. I rarely treat fish that are sick with it.

I also see a direct correlation between the lack of food being fed to a fish and the increased chance of ick being an issue.

When I introduce Tangs to an existing tank, they almost always develop ich in 24-48 hours and 95% of the time, they act as if nothing is wrong and it clears up.

Fish from poorly kept LFS's, fish that have been recently shipped, fish that are fed sparingly, fish that are overcrowded, and fish that live in dirty water are usually the fishes that get ich and succumb to it.

I find that it's easier to avoid the situations that might cause ich in fish rather than worry about QT or HT to treat ich.

FWIW, our  "QT"  system is just a 200g holding system with regular salinity and zero medicinal treatments. We simply hold the fish for 30 days before selling to clients.

We rarely have disease issues of any kind.

 

When it comes to opinions on the subject, I think we are very close. There is no doubt in my mind that a healthy fish, fed well, in fantastic water, and a properly stocked tank, will probably be alright. I also think people confuse all those factors above with "if I add Selcon and garlic to my food, my fish should be OK." or "Oh, my cleaner shrimp will take care of it" Neither of those get rid of Ich, although it's easier to suggest that will take care of the problem.

 

In my person experience, from my display into my QT, my water quality was decent (I say decent because my nitrates were slightly high), my fish were extremely well fed, and I believe I was not overcrowded. From what I observed with my Chevron, it could have maybe made it. Maybe it wouldn't have? As mentioned above, there is a difference between the quarantine tank, and the hospital tank. If you observe the fish you are holding with any disease do you treat?

[paul b]

 

So what am I trying to tell you with all these stories about slapping and quarantine tanks?

I don't use a slapping tank.  If one of my fish miss behaves I usually just lift him up by his tail and slap him without using a special slapping tank.

 

I also don't get involved in ich threads any more as I disagree with most opinions and I am to old to argue but in any case, have fun and I wish you all ich free tanks and a happy thanksgiving. 

[YHSublime]

I don't use a slapping tank.  If one of my fish miss behaves I usually just lift him up by his tail and slap him without using a special slapping tank.

 

I also don't get involved in ich threads any more as I disagree with most opinions and I am to old to argue but in any case, have fun and I wish you all ich free tanks and a happy thanksgiving. 

 

I knew you would be along eventually, black worms or ich is all it takes . My slapping tank is reserved for the extra misbehaved fish.

 

I am honestly torn on my opinion, and I hope this thread was not weighted towards either side, or do's and don'ts. That is also why I wrote this thread, as I am not a guy who knows everything about Ich, I was just a guy who talked a lot about how I handled it (and still am handling it.) I don't feel like I am in the place to say to those that inquire, "Oh, you should certainly QT and treat" or "Just let your fish be and feed it black worms till it gets healthy." If you read my thread linked above, you will find that the "Paul B. Method" is frequently brought up, not in any argumentative manner, but in a positive light! I am not to old to argue, but I have nothing to argue about here

 

There is no wrong or right way, but there are certainly a lot of untruths out there. I hope that people will make educated decisions, form their own opinions, and hopefully share with the rest of us what has worked for them!

 

On that note, all my fish are now eating black worms since the quarantine, so something has knocked some sense into them!

 

Happy Thanksgiving to you as well!

[Orion]

Where are you getting the black worms, and how are you keeping them?

[YHSublime]

Where are you getting the black worms, and how are you keeping them?

 

Not to derail the thread, but Quantum carries them. I keep them in a minimal amount of RO water in a shallow container in the back of my fridge. I change the water every day.

[paul b]

 

all my fish are now eating black worms since the quarantine, so something has knocked some sense into them!

It was probably the slapping tank.

[FrontosaTony]

Great post Isaac. Like you Im no expert but I found some pretty good info I thought I would share. Anyone think any of this is wrong - let me know and I will stop propagating it ;o)

 

The follow list also provides the same info on the life cycle that Isaac posted above.  It also gave more info I thought was worth sharing.  I'm no expert by any means but I found this article very informative - dispelling some of the myths that look to me to have come from the Fresh water ich which has similar symptoms but is not the same parasite. I had dealt with fresh water ich in the past but I definitely learned from several of the links below.

 

Myths

False - It is always in the tank. - It take a long time to get rid of thats why it appears to always be in the tank. Both links below support this.

False - Fresh water ich is the same as marine ich. This is not the same as the freshwater disease, Ich (Ichthyophthirius multifilis) but it was named after it.

False - Marine Ich can be killed by raising the temperature - marine ich is not very sensitive to temperature changes - cycle time will change but unlike fresh water ich, you cant kill it with higher temperatures.

False - The spot appears and disappears - my fish is cured! Spots appear then disappear as MI goes through its cycle

 

Myths and Facts

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/23132-marine-ich-myths-facts.html

http://www.chucksaddiction.com/ich.html

 

Curing Marine Ich

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/52236-curing-fish-marine-ich.html

[morgan175]

A frag or coral can carry ich into your tank.

 

 

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[FrontosaTony]

Do you QT all your frags? Can you cite where your info is coming from or is it experience?