lnevo November 18, 2013 Author Share November 18, 2013 Here's more details and article on Advanced Aquarist http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/mindstream-aquarium-monitoring-system-aims-to-change-how-aquarists-measure-aquarium-parameters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaddc November 18, 2013 Share November 18, 2013 Very cool. Google "fluorescent ionophores" to satisfy your inner nerd. This device is using some cutting edge nanotechnology. When the compound of interest hits the sensor foil, the foil glows. The brighter it glows, the more compound is present in the aquarium. It's reversible, so as the compound depletes the foil dims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM November 18, 2013 Share November 18, 2013 And each foil has RFID so that the calibration is communicated to the unit. Much fancier than I was imagining. After reading that article, it kind of seems plausible to me. Wonder how long those foils last and how much they are to replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS November 18, 2013 Share November 18, 2013 Discs need to be replaced every 90 days. Wonder how much they will cost... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaddc November 18, 2013 Share November 18, 2013 And each foil has RFID so that the calibration is communicated to the unit. Much fancier than I was imagining. After reading that article, it kind of seems plausible to me. Wonder how long those foils last and how much they are to replace. Yeah -- my guess is that calibration is related to the position of the disc to make sure the same spot is scanned each time. If different areas of the foil were scanned then the readings could be off. Discs need to be replaced every 90 days. Wonder how much they will cost... My guess is $150. I'd pass on the device if the price of each disc is greater than $200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR-Tanked150 November 18, 2013 Share November 18, 2013 This seems really neat, can't wait until it comes out, and see the reviews on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howaboutme November 18, 2013 Share November 18, 2013 I wonder if the business model is similar to razor blades, britas or swiffers in that the money is really made on the replacements....Like stated above, the expense of those disks for very 90 days would make it very unattractive. Alternatively, I wonder if you can turn if off? Will this make the disk lasts longer or is the disk life related to how long it is in the water as opposed to how many tests? I mean, really, do we need to know the parameters every 15 minutes? Once a couple of hours may be enough....I think the interest in this product would be the one stop shopping for tests as opposed to how often it tests. If we can set how often it runs the tests, that would be cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaddc November 18, 2013 Share November 18, 2013 I wonder if the business model is similar to razor blades, britas or swiffers in that the money is really made on the replacements....Like stated above, the expense of those disks for very 90 days would make it very unattractive. Alternatively, I wonder if you can turn if off? Will this make the disk lasts longer or is the disk life related to how long it is in the water as opposed to how many tests? I mean, really, do we need to know the parameters every 15 minutes? Once a couple of hours may be enough....I think the interest in this product would be the one stop shopping for tests as opposed to how often it tests. If we can set how often it runs the tests, that would be cool. I would think the money is made on the replacements. And the replacements is really where all the expense is. Not only is there materials cost and production cost, but QA/QC would be a big issue. If 1 out of 10 discs failed, or worse, then you would have some angry customers. The main housing is all "off-the-shelf" engineering that's been around for a while. Aside from the limited life of fluorophores, I think it is the exposure to saltwater is another huge factor in the life-span of the discs. I doubt you can take it out of the water once it gets wet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonloco November 18, 2013 Share November 18, 2013 The cost the first year would be close to $2000, then $600-800 a year after that. Wow, not sure I'd go for that. Then again, when I saw the price of the apex last year, I thought the same thing.....ended up buying it 15 months later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM November 22, 2013 Share November 22, 2013 On facebook they just said that replacement discs are going to be "under $35." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy November 22, 2013 Share November 22, 2013 (edited) from mindstream: "The Mindstream has the capability to measure up to 10 parameters and a calibration reference, simultaneously, using one disk. Conductivity and temperature parameters are not measured from the disc. Different disk types will be available (each measuring up to 10 parameters) for different aquarium needs (i.e., reef, vs cichlid vs freshwater, and so on). The fluorescence technology being used has been adapted from the biotechnology arena and re-tuned for aquarium use. The 12th position (bump) on the disc is a lens and electrode cleaning mechanism. The fluorescence technology being used does not require the use of any additional packets, tabs, powders or other liquid reagents. It is a pure light measurement and the parameter selectivity is controlled by the special fluorescent compound foils designed and optimized for this application." & "Our technology does not use infrared radiation or spectroscopy (which performs poorly in aqueous environments). In fact, we use visible radiation that is NOT absorbed by the water, so making measurements directly in the aquarium is not a problem. Also, we do not use the fraction of light absorbed (or transmitted) to “convert to a concentration,” as is done in FTIR. Rather, our fluorescence sensors measure the intensity of light of a specific wavelength that is given off by the sensor in direct response to the parameter being measured (exclusively). The intensity of that emitted light is then correlated to the magnitude of that parameter through sensor disk calibrations performed in-house, whether it be pH, Ca-ion, Mg-ion or what have you." Edited November 22, 2013 by monkiboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnevo November 22, 2013 Author Share November 22, 2013 Under $35 for 90 days is not terrible...for what your getting and the insight to what your tank is doing at all times is priceless... So number of tests is down from 12 to 10 now? What got dropped? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracy G November 22, 2013 Share November 22, 2013 I'm very interested Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy November 22, 2013 Share November 22, 2013 (edited) So number of tests is down from 12 to 10 now? What got dropped? "The Mindstream has the capability to measure up to 10 parameters and a calibration reference, simultaneously, using one disk. Conductivity and temperature parameters are not measured from the disc. Different disk types will be available (each measuring up to 10 parameters) for different aquarium needs (i.e., reef, vs cichlid vs freshwater, and so on). The fluorescence technology being used has been adapted from the biotechnology arena and re-tuned for aquarium use. The 12th position (bump) on the disc is a lens and electrode cleaning mechanism. The fluorescence technology being used does not require the use of any additional packets, tabs, powders or other liquid reagents. It is a pure light measurement and the parameter selectivity is controlled by the special fluorescent compound foils designed and optimized for this application." Edited November 22, 2013 by monkiboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnevo November 22, 2013 Author Share November 22, 2013 Ahh thanks missed that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnevo November 22, 2013 Author Share November 22, 2013 So any more thoughts now as per accuracy potential? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctenophore November 22, 2013 Share November 22, 2013 I'd settle for precision over accuracy. i.e., if my alkalinity drops by 1 dKH, whether it reads 8->7 or 10->9 is mostly irrelevant. The change is what interests me. A graph of alkalinity every 15 minutes for a week in a sps system would be very valuable to me. I think there is a lot we will learn about our reef tanks with this level of observation of water parameters. At $35/3mo I'm game to try one out, even with the initial cost. Very exciting product! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy February 12, 2014 Share February 12, 2014 a solid update posted on their fbook page so i thought it was worthwhile to bring this back as i know there are quite a few of us very excited about its release! We thank you all for your continued interest in the Mindstream Monitoring System, and wanted to update you on our development.We’ve had our monitor working in our own fresh and salt-water tanks for the last 18 months. Most of our initial test focus has been on saltwater systems. Our freshwater aquarium test research is catching up but may not be ready at the same time as saltwater sensor discs.We have been embarking on a very detailed testing plan developed by our PHD Chemist, University professor and co-founder Giuseppe Petrucci.Dr. Petrucci, along with our other founder Jim Clark, are currently refining the algorithms to assure the best possible accuracy throughout the 90 day life of the chemical sensor disc.As you've seen in our postings, the technology is very sensitive, so much so that the daily changes in CO2 and O2 can be seen as a result of the photosynthesis changes between night and day.We have also just prototyped a new Calcium sensor that has 6 times more fluorescence gain which will make calibration of our monitors simpler in production. This new sensor justified a delay in launch given the benefits it provides.Our testing also includes assuring that the latest generation of aquarium lighting has no impact on the light sensitive sensor foils. We are also testing for the most common aquarium additives even when doses far exceed recommended levels. Fluorescence sensor corrections for temperature, time and pH are also underway.We will be testing for adverse storage and shipping conditions, (high heat and extreme cold) and determining the shelf life of our chemical discs. These are just some of the adverse conditions we’ll be operating under. The adverse conditions will be in test chambers so as not to endanger any aquatic life. Initial indications are that we will not be able to permit freezing of the sensor discs without some damage.Throughout our testing plan, we’ll be verifying our results with an independent laboratory.Our goal is to provide the most accurate, reliable and economical method for determining the chemical content of any aquarium water environment. We are very pleased with how our development is progressing stay tuned for future updates! Thank you for your patience our continued testing will result in an even better product! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanM February 12, 2014 Share February 12, 2014 That's a solid update. I now give it a 4 out of 10 in entering a production run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnevo February 12, 2014 Author Share February 12, 2014 I'm happy to see an update. I like that they are doing a diverse array of testing, especially with different additives that are commonly used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterTang February 13, 2014 Share February 13, 2014 I'm happy to see an update. I like that they are doing a diverse array of testing, especially with different additives that are commonly used. So are you going to start building an RA interface for this or what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lnevo February 13, 2014 Author Share February 13, 2014 I would love to if at all possible. They have said that third party integration will require a radio interface. Maybe we will be able to use the RF module, but more than likely they will want to charge for such integration so I doubt it will be so straightforward. We may be able to get info from their wifi, but again more than likely it will just send data to their cloud. If there's a way, there is definitely a will... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howaboutme February 14, 2014 Share February 14, 2014 Besides the replacement disks, do we know if they are going to charge for the monitoring? I would assume so. If that's the case, we'll probably have to pay for integration w/ the RA or other controllers as if it's the monitoring service. But I would think it's in their best interest to get it integrated as it opens the doors to many more customers. Hopefully it's easier to integrate w/ an open source device first.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy February 14, 2014 Share February 14, 2014 Besides the replacement disks, do we know if they are going to charge for the monitoring? they mentioned it was free in one of the early pricing announcements or in a specific wall question on the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howaboutme February 14, 2014 Share February 14, 2014 they mentioned it was free in one of the early pricing announcements or in a specific wall question on the topic. Ah, thanks Marcos...then I don't know why they would charge for integration w/ a controller. It just opens more doors for them, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now