DaveS August 21, 2013 August 21, 2013 There's always the "I'll sue you" jack ass out there. He probably got one payday out of suing a dept. store for slipping and is getting a thrill out of it now. Big fat loser, I'm sure. So I just read this thread for the first time today and may have missed some of the edited material but I don't think that affects the following: Looking briefly at the site, it says "Please note that this is not a 'class action lawsuit'." So my guess is that he currently isn't suing anyone but may in the future. The issue (as he presents it) is actually an interesting one. Like Tom said, this is about intellectual property/trademark infringement. The UL and CE guys have spent a lot of time and money building up a reputation for those marks. In theory, if a consumer sees one of those marks, it is intended to mean something. In this case, it is alleged that H20 systems just slapped the logos on without going through the proper channels. This is no different than the guy on the corner selling fake Rolex watches. It can be argued that it's worse as the potential exists for bodily harm should there be a design flaw (not saying there is). As with many things, there is a lot of money involved with these trademarks and IP. I'm actually surprised UL and CE aren't taking this up on their own and going after them. I know companies that have an army of lawyers protecting their IP for situations just like this. It is commonly done by Hollywood studios, NFL/NBA/MLB, consumer fashion brands, you name it. There are entire industries (not just lawyers) devoted to concern. To give you a funny story- I once worked an issue where a paper company spent lots of money to have investigators go out to grocery stores and buy off brand paper towels. Turns out one off brand manufacturer was violating their IP by copying the patterns imprinted on the roll of paper towels. Yes, they spend thousands of dollars protecting their rights to that pattern of holes... Bottom line- it's not just one loser, it's an entire industry...tort reform anyone?
Origami August 21, 2013 August 21, 2013 As with many things, there is a lot of money involved with these trademarks and IP. I'm actually surprised UL and CE aren't taking this up on their own and going after them. I know companies that have an army of lawyers protecting their IP for situations just like this. It is commonly done by Hollywood studios, NFL/NBA/MLB, consumer fashion brands, you name it. There are entire industries (not just lawyers) devoted to concern. I'm somewhat surprised, too. But my guess is that that they probably have their plates pretty full with other groups violating their trademarks. Plus, it may be difficult to litigate on their shores and difficult to make the business case to do so on our shores. And they're probably not big enough fish for Justice or Commerce to give them any attention.
davelin315 August 21, 2013 August 21, 2013 Typically the threshold amounts are pretty high for Feds to get involved and costly for the companies to sue. Back in my prosecutor days the Sheriff's Department would sit on warehouses full of stuff for years until it could be considered abandoned and then court ordered destroyed. Sorry, edited on an iPad - I typically will keep typing to a minimum on them...
sdenmark August 22, 2013 August 22, 2013 I had no idea that the http://waveline-recall.info/ was already getting attention. As for the 'why', the home page of the website is pretty self-explanatory and is credible. I am not, in any way, affiliated with UL (who has in fact already taken action) or someone that makes it a habit to sue people... I’ve never done it. As for 'who' I am, it's not important for me to by anonymous... far from that. I am a professional, educated and average reef keeper that is tired of bad products, poor customer service, useless warranties, limited guarantees and 'secret' proprietary blends that harm tank inhabitants, bleed consumer’s wallets and infringe on trust. I am, indeed, working with an Attorney to properly place the complaint(s) with those who are successful at this type of multi-national litigation. For those that have problems with the RLSS Waveline products, and I know of many, it is my hope to find a resolution. For those that have not had problems, I sincerely hope that you do not. Thanks for taking interest in the cause and if you want more information, it's easy to find me. All my best, - S. Denmark
Origami August 22, 2013 August 22, 2013 Hi Shane. Thanks for stopping by. I was hoping that you'd do a search and see that your page was being discussed here, since the page is viewable to the public. Care to provide us with some more detailed insight into the problems that you've had?
sdenmark August 22, 2013 August 22, 2013 Hi Tom, Thanks for asking; however, I am afraid that I have to stick with what is available on the website because this is an ongoing process. However, I can say that it appears that this particular product may have been brought to market without significant testing (as well as some of the newer products) and the manufacturer/distributor may not be following the letters of the U.S. law with the initial marketing and the federal guidelines on warranties. Additionally, I will also say that this effort is not directly aimed at retailers, other than to remind them that we all need to select products and manufacturers more carefully. I know this product may have placed several small local retailers at a disadvantage with their costumers and it's a shame.
Origami August 22, 2013 August 22, 2013 Gotcha. I can respect that. You know, there are other versions of their pumps being sold but that are now branded differently. I'm not sure if they're coming off the same production line, though. Same situation? Or unknown?
sdenmark August 22, 2013 August 22, 2013 To be honest, I haven't gotten that far with a real validation of how these pumps came to be and unless someone actually reports problems to me they will be beyond my scope. For the purpose of the complaint, we are sticking with the company whose name appears on the box and not the actual manufacturing plant. According to rumor, they are knocks offs but there is a certain amount of common sense than lends to the probability that they come from the same production plant. I have not heard of as many defects coming from the other brands; however, they have not been on the market as long and were produced after Gen 1 of the Wavelines. If they do have c(UL)us or CE listed on the box then there is a possibility that they may not actually be UL because neither CoralVue nor Speedwave appear in Underwriter Laboratories Online Certification Directory. However, the benefit of CoralVue, albeit lacking the implied performance increase and improved controllers of Gen 2 Wavelines, they do have a 3 year warranty provided by a company that has been in business for a while. **I am not promoting another product, just stating the facts.
dbartco August 23, 2013 August 23, 2013 Lets buy Shane a beer at Macna and get him to talk! Going shane?
Mattiejay6 August 23, 2013 August 23, 2013 Reef builders wrote an article which made me feel better about the pump. http://reefbuilders.com/2013/08/22/advocacy-group-started-recall-wavelines-ul-listing/
DaveS October 3, 2013 October 3, 2013 Looks like RLSS has an update- on 9/3 they composed an acknowledgement that the UL mark was incorrectly used. That notice is on the front page of their web site: http://www.rlss.ca/ Right next to it is passing UL report on the DC6000 and DC10000.
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