unhappy anemone is unhappy

[squiddly]

Hi guys.  This poor anemone has been with me for at least 3 years now, and he started a decline maybe a couple months ago.  I'd been doing water changes, trying different food, etc.  Now he's even worse.  What do you guys think?

[Dr.eclipse]

whats your lighting and current parameters?

 

. 

[squiddly]

Hi Dr. Eclipse.  I'm using a SunPac 150 watt CFs, and right now running at 0 nitrites, 0 nitrates, 0 ammonia.  I generally don't test for more than that.  I've been doing regular water changes with RODI water, and all critters are fine. 

[zygote2k]

If 90% of the tank is fine and water chemistry is stable, why change anything for one of the specimens? It's probably going to wither away and die. These things happen from time to time and are a normal part of the process.

Do nothing.

[smallreef]

I...am...going...to....agree...with....ROB!

 

 

OMG! If you've had this anemone for 3 years and he's just now changing...it may be his time to go...especially since we cannot tell age on them...

[squiddly]

I will be sad, but if I can't do anything then there it is.  Thanks all.

[F&Fmgr]

If 90% of the tank is fine and water chemistry is stable, why change anything for one of the specimens? It's probably going to wither away and die. These things happen from time to time and are a normal part of the process.

Do nothing.

That may be, but if she isnt testing for SG or alk I would start there....  Those two parameters affect anemones more so than other livestock, bc after all they are bags of water.

[zygote2k]

That may be, but if she isnt testing for SG or alk I would start there....  Those two parameters affect anemones more so than other livestock, bc after all they are bags of water.

Alk could certainly be low and I'm going to assume that SG is within reason if tank has been up for some time...

Anemones die sometimes.

[sachabballi reef]

You really should be testing alk, ca and SG regularly.

 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

 

[squiddly]

Sorry guys, I do test for SG.  It's 1.023.  I don't test for ca since I have no hard corals.  I can certainly add testing for alk. 

[howaboutme]

You really should be testing alk, ca and SG regularly.

 

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

I disagree. I haven't tested anything except SG for my FSW for wc's in over a month, maybe 2. I use my eyes and since I don't dose or run added media, the eyes are your best indicator. Sometimes we make this hobby seem much harder than it really is. (But talk to me in another 6 months and I may eat my words. )

 

Of course, if you start using some of the advanced techniques like dosing, you should test what you're dosing...

[F&Fmgr]

mikki, what are you using to test SG?  Have you calibrated it recently?  You'd be surprised how much the refractometers can drift away from calibrated readings.

 

Just saying, yeah eyes are the best tool for reading health.  But my eyes tell me that the nem is not so happy.  IME and at my holding tanks at the store, the only time my nems look unhappy is when the salinity drifts outside of ideal range.  And typically everything else in my LPS/softy system can tolerate the change, however, nems do not.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Sean

 

Survival of the fittest aye Rob? 

[howaboutme]

mikki, what are you using to test SG?  Have you calibrated it recently?  You'd be surprised how much the refractometers can drift away from calibrated readings.

 

Just saying, yeah eyes are the best tool for reading health.  But my eyes tell me that the nem is not so happy.  IME and at my holding tanks at the store, the only time my nems look unhappy is when the salinity drifts outside of ideal range.  And typically everything else in my LPS/softy system can tolerate the change, however, nems do not.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Sean

 

Survival of the fittest aye Rob? 

 

Yep, I think we're on the same page. I was simply referring to Jenn's "test regularly" line. In this case, if the nem looks bad because of what we see, test away!

[trockafella]

I disagree. I haven't tested anything except SG for my FSW for wc's in over a month, maybe 2. I use my eyes and since I don't dose or run added media, the eyes are your best indicator. Sometimes we make this hobby seem much harder than it really is. (But talk to me in another 6 months and I may eat my words. )

 

Of course, if you start using some of the advanced techniques like dosing, you should test what you're dosing...

I completely disagree with this methodology. Sure you should observe whats going on and you may notice something, but my issue with the theory you have is that you may wait til its to late to fix the issues. Why not catch things before theyre about to die. Testing alk, ca, and Sg should not take you any longer than 5-10 minutes. Personally 5-10 miniutes every couple weeks seems worth it considering the amount of other time spent on the tank and the money invested. Do you just drive your car til the engine starts ticking and then say, oh looks like i must need an oil change.. Regular water changes and testing shouldnt be neglected, especially on fairly new or young tanks. Seems like a dumb and lazy reason to kill things. 

[howaboutme]

I completely disagree with this methodology. Sure you should observe whats going on and you may notice something, but my issue with the theory you have is that you may wait til its to late to fix the issues. Why not catch things before theyre about to die. Testing alk, ca, and Sg should not take you any longer than 5-10 minutes. Personally 5-10 miniutes every couple weeks seems worth it considering the amount of other time spent on the tank and the money invested. Do you just drive your car til the engine starts ticking and then say, oh looks like i must need an oil change.. Regular water changes and testing shouldnt be neglected, especially on fairly new or young tanks. Seems like a dumb and lazy reason to kill things. 

 

Wow buddy! Did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed? There are many ways to reefing and this is one example. Calling someone you don't know dumb and lazing is a bit overboard. Actually, you shouldn't call anyone dumb in any situation. If you knew me, you would know I am anything but those 2 descriptions.

 

Back to the point, corals don't usually just die over night or in 1 day. You can see progression. I am relatively new to this hobby but I do know that much. If you observe and understand your tank, you will catch degradation pretty fast and can remedy the situation. I am not saying do what I am doing nor am I saying I do not test. I am simply saying that we make this hobby to be much more difficult (IMO) than it really is. Relax, it's just a hobby. If you don't agree, I am okay with it as I am sure Jenn was okay with me responding to her sentence. Having constructive conversations on forums is what educates us. Then, you as the reefer, need to decide what's best for your own situation (SPS dominant, just sofites/lps, etc). If I jump off a bridge, I certainly wouldn't expect you to jump with me.

[sachabballi reef]

I expect nothing but challenges from jack lol...I say the sky is blue he says green...it's part of his charm lol...he knows I completely disagree with him but I also know he is new to this hobby and he is finding his way. In over 10 years I have learned the hard way that what Trock says is true...those 5-10 mins every couple of weeks has allowed me to alter slight shifts that I didn't detect by my eyes and avoided having to over correct. Jack you are wrong that sps won't die overnight. That much I will tell you. If you have an alk swing you will wake up to find your sticks have rtn and there ain't much you can do but correct and frag and pray.

I also do not think that Trock meant you were dumb...rather that not testing was...I know for a fact you are overly intellectual with a touch of arrogance lol...so dumb is certainly not in the picture but it will give you a false sense in this hobby where chemistry is everything. I also know there isn't a lazy bone in your body either..see above for the arrogance part lol

 

Jack you don't dose currently and I don't know your tank well enough to know if have the draw from the corals is high enough to require it yet or if water changes can keep up but as your corals grow you will need to dose at some point and you can't dose and not test...so although you may disagree it has it's own expiration date.

 

In this case of the anemone she needs to test every parameter.....this is a very sensitive animal and there is something off in her chemistry somewhere...I think her sg is a little low for starters. Without knowing her alk and ca its hard to say what else can be off.

 

Also what is the temp of the tank?

Edited August 13, 2013 by sachabballi reef

[howaboutme]

I have charm!?? Thanks, Jenn! At least I do qualify some "iffy" statements with the fact that I am new to the hobby. Plus, I love a good, respectful debate. No one should take answers from forums as is w/o doing their own due diligence of course.

 

For me, I don't dose. I do have some SPS and I do enjoy them enough to continue to have a mixed reef (I see why they are a bit more addicting them LPS). If I get to a point that I cannot keep up w/ only wc's, I will stop and give away some of the SPS's to bring my tank back to equilibrium (having a small tank helps). For me, as long as my corals are not dying and are growing, I am fine. There is no rush. I'm not in this to sell frags for money. If it takes 5 years for maturity, I am okay with it.

 

So tell me....if a coral dies overnight, how can testing help? Say you do your test at 9pm and things look fine. The next morning,  you see you have RTN, how did that test help? My point is..similar to what Rob said, somethings just die.

Things can affect livestock so quickly are...and I may miss something here...

 

SG, which can be mitigated by testing your FSW during wc's and using an accurate ATO

Temp, which can be mitigated by monitoring and fail safes,

Swings in PH, which you can help by providing aeration to equalize the CO2/H2CO3,which in my understanding affects PH

Swings in ALK....which leads me to my next question. How can alk swing so terribly overnight to make corals suddenly die or diseased? Can an SPS dominant tank (I am assuming is dosing) consume that much ALK overnight? If all of the above are correct, what else can make ALK swing? Inaccurate dosing? Can ALK swing suddenly if the tank has no other outside manipulations?

 

I don't have the answer nor am I looking for a specific answer....would like to learn though.

[squiddly]

mikki, what are you using to test SG?  Have you calibrated it recently?  You'd be surprised how much the refractometers can drift away from calibrated readings.

 

Just saying, yeah eyes are the best tool for reading health.  But my eyes tell me that the nem is not so happy.  IME and at my holding tanks at the store, the only time my nems look unhappy is when the salinity drifts outside of ideal range.  And typically everything else in my LPS/softy system can tolerate the change, however, nems do not.

 

Hope that helps,

 

Sean

 

Survival of the fittest aye Rob? 

 

Two different refractometers. 

[Origami]

Mikki, you should still calibrate the refractometers just as good practice. If you're going to rely on the readings to make decisions, then you owe yourself the confidence that the reading is reasonably correct.

 

Has anything else changed recently? Have you changed the flow pattern in the tank? Added any livestock that might be picking on it? How long has it been retracted like this?

[davelin315]

Do you feed the anemone at all?