Jan March 23, 2013 Share March 23, 2013 (edited) My very healthy female Genicanthus Watanabei has a large ulceration. She's not as active as she usually is. I've been watching the ulceration get worse. It appeard two days ago and now it's a wide open wound. At first I thought she scraped against something but no, it's an ulceration. Probably bacterial. About 3-4 weeks ago I lost my male anthia to something similar. I thought he was bitten. His ulceration was worse than this one. He declined rapidly over a matter of 3 days. I have a Genicanthus melanospilos that had a very bad case of lymph, which went away. This fish also had hemorraging under the skin. When it passes under the light I can see the outline of its organs. Something doesn't look right. It looks different than all the rest. It has horrible scars from the lymph but there's something else that I can't seem to ID. I suspect this fish brought something into my DT. Everything was fine up until this fish came in. Yes, it was QT'd. Now the question is what do I treat with? Copper and hyposalinity doesn't do anything for bacterial infections. Would errythromycin be alright? I looked through my Fish Diease book and everything suggests bacterial infection. There's always something. Ugh! Edited March 23, 2013 by Jans Natural Reef Foods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind March 23, 2013 Share March 23, 2013 What is a Genicanthus Molenopsis? I can't find that anywhere in my books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan March 23, 2013 Author Share March 23, 2013 melanospilos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 March 23, 2013 Share March 23, 2013 Got a picture of the wound? If it's going from one to the other, I wonder if you have a predatory isopod in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan March 23, 2013 Author Share March 23, 2013 (edited) Wouldn't prazi pro and FW dips kill isopods? Got a picture of the wound? If it's going from one to the other, I wonder if you have a predatory isopod in there. Edited March 23, 2013 by Jans Natural Reef Foods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan March 24, 2013 Author Share March 24, 2013 When I get back home ill try and take a picture. Figures she's the only fish that won't go into the trap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan March 24, 2013 Author Share March 24, 2013 Since I'm not sure what it is I'm dealing with I'm going to dip ALL fish in FW with methalene blue. Then they are going into QT. The angel with the ulceration is going in the hospital tank for treatment with antbiotics. THIS REALLY SUCKS!!!! Does anyone know how long it will take predatory isopods to die off without a host? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marinap March 24, 2013 Share March 24, 2013 Look up Vibrio in Noga's book. Does the discription fit what you are seeing in the tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan March 24, 2013 Author Share March 24, 2013 (edited) Yes it does. It also looks like lesions from parasitic isopod. According to Noga difinitive diagnosis requires id of bacterium in target tissues, with S&S. I can't be sure it is vibrio without having it tested. What I have noticed is when the fish I think this came from swims close to the surface, close to the light I can see the outine of its organs. It looks dark in places that do not appear to have anything in that area in my healthy angels. Its anus is also very swollen. At first I thought it had parasites so I treated the tank with prazi pro several times. Its stool appreaded normal. This fish has also had sporadic hemorrahgic patches under its skin. Another fish has it on its tail. Noga describes this too. The angel with the lesion is getting bloated. Dropsey? She's still eating. She also avoids the trap. Shouldn't a FW dip in Meth blue and then antibiotic be able to treat both isopod and vibrio? According to Noga's book tetrycycline and nifurpirinol are often used but the strain may be resistant in which case tx w/sulfadimethoxine ormetoprim is recommended here in the US. Look up Vibrio in Noga's book. Does the discription fit what you are seeing in the tank? Edited March 24, 2013 by Jans Natural Reef Foods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan March 24, 2013 Author Share March 24, 2013 Found it. By Rx only. I can get it from my vet but how much should I use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marinap March 24, 2013 Share March 24, 2013 I imagine Sulfa-based antibiotics should work. Prazi should have taken care of isopods, and you can see them with your eyes, they are big. I would be very careful handling the fish and the tank with bare hands. TB is also a possibility. Personally, i would euthanize these fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marinap March 24, 2013 Share March 24, 2013 Found it. By Rx only. I can get it from my vet but how much should I use? Noga gives dosage in the pharmacy section Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marinap March 24, 2013 Share March 24, 2013 Sulfa antibiotic http://www.seahorsesource.com/cgi-bin/shop/detail.cgi?id=300122 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan March 24, 2013 Author Share March 24, 2013 All of my fish? OMG. I don't have the heart to do that. Please explain why? Here's a picture of the fish that I believe introduced this into my tank Here's a picture of the Angel with the ulceration/lesion I imagine Sulfa-based antibiotics should work. Prazi should have taken care of isopods, and you can see them with your eyes, they are big. I would be very careful handling the fish and the tank with bare hands. TB is also a possibility. Personally, i would euthanize these fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marinap March 24, 2013 Share March 24, 2013 All of my fish? OMG. I don't have the heart to do that. Please explain why? Mostly because you can contract it, and it is very serious. Fish might live or not with the treatment. Is there a way you can have the culture done at the lab to rule out vibrio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan March 24, 2013 Author Share March 24, 2013 (edited) i'll ask a vet at Pender. They have an exotic pet dept. You also mentioned TB. Do you mean microbactrum marinum? Wouldn't the fish stop eating and waste away if they had fish TB? Mostly because you can contract it, and it is very serious. Fish might live or not with the treatment. Is there a way you can have the culture done at the lab to rule out vibrio? Edited March 24, 2013 by Jans Natural Reef Foods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marinap March 24, 2013 Share March 24, 2013 you might want to ping the folks on this thread for more info, you might have better chance finding them on mofib. I would try spawner or the lab they reference on the thread http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=875006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marinap March 24, 2013 Share March 24, 2013 You also mentioned TB. Do you mean microbactrum marinum? Wouldn't the fish stop eating and waste away if they had fish TB? Jan, I don't know. The lab will be able to tell you. All I know that there are certain diseases that are either misdiagnosed or never diagnosed in this hobby, vibrio and TB being 2 of them. You've been having a lot of issues with your fish, it would be good to know what is going on before it starts affecting your health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan March 24, 2013 Author Share March 24, 2013 You've been great. Thank you so much. I just got off the phone with a vet at Pender who specializes in aquarium fish. She can do testing. Depending on the test it would cost $34.00 to $100.00 plus $75.00 for the visit. She's going to call me back. I'll let you know how it goes. Jan, I don't know. The lab will be able to tell you. All I know that there are certain diseases that are either misdiagnosed or never diagnosed in this hobby, vibrio and TB being 2 of them. You've been having a lot of issues with your fish, it would be good to know what is going on before it starts affecting your health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YHSublime March 24, 2013 Share March 24, 2013 You've been great. Thank you so much. I just got off the phone with a vet at Pender who specializes in aquarium fish. She can do testing. Depending on the test it would cost $34.00 to $100.00 plus $75.00 for the visit. She's going to call me back. I'll let you know how it goes. I hope everything works out. I'm curious as to how a vet tests the fish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan March 24, 2013 Author Share March 24, 2013 She will take a culture from the lesion. I may bring the other fish and have her euthanize her. Better she do it and maybe do a necropsy too. I'm still waiting for her to get back to me. Iim still trying to catch these two fish. I hope everything works out. I'm curious as to how a vet tests the fish? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan March 24, 2013 Author Share March 24, 2013 (edited) I had a lengthy conversation with Dr. Torres of Pender and asked if It would be ok for me to give her name to the group. She specializes in Exotic pets. She tells me she just interviewed a doctor who has written a paper on marine aquarium fish (she didn't give me specifics) and hopes that they will hire him as she is trying to expand the Aquarium division of Pender. She says she loves working on fish. She was very easy to speak with. We understood each other. She knows what she is doing and most importantly she gave me options. She worked with me. Here is link to information about Dr. Torres and Pender http://www.pendervet...mie-torres.html The Watanbei is going to the vet on Thursday at 8pm. Dr. Torres will do a cytology from cultures she takes from the ulceration. The other Angel fish I will catch and euthanize myself. I discussed Dr. Torres euthanizing the other fish and doing a necropsy. She would extract samples from the fishes spleen and liver to send off to a lab for analysis. If I do both fish it will coat approx $300.00. I just can't see spending $200.00 for exam and lab tests on a dead fish. The culture she takes from the Watanabei should be good enough and that along with the office visit will cost me $100.00. She will be looking for vibrio. Microbactrum Marinum is very difficult to culture. It may take several months. We will discuss Microbactrum Marinum at length during the appointment. . Edited March 24, 2013 by Jans Natural Reef Foods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flooddc March 25, 2013 Share March 25, 2013 wow! so sorry to hear about your fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan March 25, 2013 Author Share March 25, 2013 Thank you. I'm hopeful at this point. Getting an answer from a professional is so worth it. Better to know what is going on, if anything, than not. wow! so sorry to hear about your fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huly March 25, 2013 Share March 25, 2013 Please keep us in loop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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