Post- Tank Leak/Fish Death Issues

[LCDRDATA]

Moving this from my "Happy Birthday" thread; I guess in some ways this has become a new issue...

 

As if losing the fish wasn't bad enough, on top of that I am now fighting some kind of nasty algae(?). Admittedly I was already having some hair algae issues, but this stuff had appeared thick over the GHA by the time I got home the same day as the leak (Monday the 25th), making the "hair" into ugly-colored dreadlocks. I'm posting a couple photos below - the first is a "before" shot taken a few days after the last WAMAS meeting, the "after" shots were taken last night (5 March). Of note, I spent ~ two hours Monday night (4 March) "vacuuming" the tank with a siphon - draining into the sump through a filter sock - and pulling this stuff (whatever it is) and GHA by hand, so at least as far as the stringy, nasty, bubbly stuff is concerned this is 24 hours' growth.

 

 

 

 

 

I've cut back on the feeding, and done two large water changes. I picked up a Phosban 150 reactor from Quantum Reefs over the weekend (thanks again, Vince!) and am running that with a mixture of carbon, PhosGuard, and Purigen, in addition to the pre-existing BRS bio-pellet reactor I've been running for some time. I've also been dosing nitrifying bacteria - probably one reason my ammonia has stayed at or near 0 despite the fish bodies I could never find. I need to do another round of testing, but so far the parameters are all pretty close to what they were before, except for the predictable Nitrate uptick.

 

So I'm now looking for info on 1) what this stuff is (sort-of looks like cyano, sort-of not); 2) what (if anything) I can do to knock it back/out beyond what I'm already doing; and 3) how long that is likely to take. Any thoughts/suggestions?

[Origami]

This may help:

http://www.reefcleaners.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54&Itemid=60

 

Looks like cyano mixed in with the hair algae. Could be dinos, but the color looks to be red. Dinos are normally clear to brownish or yellow-brownish. I'd siphon as much out, including the hair algae. It's a form of nutrient export at this point.

 

 

[Jan]

Looks like Dinoflagellate mixed with hair algae. It may explain the sudden deaths. Dino can kill fish and anything else. It's a grayish, rusty snotty looking goo. It has the consistency of mucous. It is often described as looking like mucous dripping down the walls and rocks. I hope it isn't. Not easy to treat.

 

 

http://www.rimlessreef.com/1/post/2009/4/dinoflagellates-and-the-treament-of.html

http://www.advanceda...ssons-i-learned

http://reefkeeping.c...1/rhf/index.php

Edited March 6, 2013 by Jans Natural Reef Foods

[Pants]

Hard to say from the photos but it kind of looks like cyano growing over the hair algae. Do you have a magnifying glass or some other magnifying device?

[John]

I have this URL bookmarked, I think Rob provided it few months ago, good reference to keep handy:

 

http://www.reefcleaners.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=54&Itemid=60

[Jan]

Interests Dinoflagellates? Are you a Marine Biologist or Scientist? You'd know better than anyone here how to ID this. Great!

 

Hard to say from the photos but it kind of looks like cyano growing over the hair algae. Do you have a magnifying glass or some other magnifying device?

[LCDRDATA]

Thanks for your help (Jan, John especially, thank you for the links). After reading through them I'm leaning toward dino.s, although I wish I weren't. I'll also try to get some better/more close up photos.

 

As far as recommended steps, reducing light, continuing to vacuum and raising pH all seem doable, and I'm already running a second reactor to pull out nutrients I also have additional bacteria I can add.

 

I can't seem to tell if I should turn off the biopellets or not; thoughts? Of course, if I do, I will need to keep them from going anaerobic and toxic in the period before turning them back on, but that should be workable too.

[LCDRDATA]

Here is a series of fresh pics, hopefully a bit clearer/more diagnostic

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's the lot, and about the best I can do. What's the verdict - dino.s, cyano, other? Thanks again for your help.

[Jan]

Looks like snot all over. I say Dino. You may have some spots here and there of cyano, but it's mostly all Dino.

[Coral Hind]

I think the bubbles from the underlying algae make the cyano look like dino.

 

I would skim wet and do a water change by sucking as much as you can out with a hose.

[Pants]

I am a graduate student working on my PhD. I study dinoflagellates. I have worked on corals and various tetrapods in the past. All the work revolving around evolution and systematics (one of those annoying people who keeps changing the scientific names you used to know).

 

If you can magnify the algae a bit it should be pretty easy to tell what it is. Pest cyanobacteria are filamentous while dinos will be individual cells (little ovals).

[Jan]

This is the pic that makes me think Dino. I see no hair algae on this coral. The fact that your fish died mysteriously; fish can die from eating dino. The loss of power and water and then this pops up so fast. One or two of the authors of the links I posted had similar circumstances that led to their dino outbreak.

 

You are the best judge based on how it developed and what you get from your research.

 

Cyano is an easy fix with Boyds Red Slime remover and lights out.

 

[Jan]

Great!!! The more knowledge the better.

 

I am a graduate student working on my PhD. I study dinoflagellates. I have worked on corals and various tetrapods in the past. All the work revolving around evolution and systematics (one of those annoying people who keeps changing the scientific names you used to know).

 

If you can magnify the algae a bit it should be pretty easy to tell what it is. Pest cyanobacteria are filamentous while dinos will be individual cells (little ovals).

[Origami]

This stuff came about after the die off. Didn't it? Still looks like cyanobacteria to me. Especially when I start seeing the large purple sheets of the stuff. The growth is probably fueled by available nutrients in the water from the die-off. Either way, I'd siphon whatever it is out as it's an easily removed reservoir of trapped nutrients that you'd probably want out of your tank anyway.

[monkiboy]

i have an algae mower vacuum i purchased in the GB a while ago. it makes tasks like yours much easier then manually pruning that gunk back. you're welcome to use it for as long as you need.

[zygote2k]

doesn't really matter what it is- you should take the advice of removing the nutrient source(s) and manually removing and siphoning off as much as possible.

my guess is that your tank was running on the edge of an outbreak for some time and it only reared it's head when the right set of circumstances happened.

nutrients can easily be stored in a sandbed if there isn't sufficient amounts of detritivores to consume it. You might try vacuuming the sand to remove as much nutrients as possible and maybe under the rocks too. Since your tank is relatively small, maybe this is a good excuse to do a quick tear down and rebuild on a nice snowbound day.

[LCDRDATA]

I am a graduate student working on my PhD. I study dinoflagellates. ... If you can magnify the algae a bit it should be pretty easy to tell what it is. Pest cyanobacteria are filamentous while dinos will be individual cells (little ovals).

 

My wife has a microscope she picked up awhile back; I may try to get her to take a look at this stuff later. Now wouldn't be a good time because she's already lost too much of the day with me working on the tank rather than the "honey-do" list. But she'll probably be interested, as she was a wildlife management major, and my daughter (who's home on spring break from college) is a Junior majoring in biology. If and when we get something definitive I'll absolutely let you know.

 

I think the bubbles from the underlying algae make the cyano look like dino. I would skim wet and do a water change by sucking as much as you can out with a hose.

 

This stuff came about after the die off. Didn't it? Still looks like cyanobacteria to me. Especially when I start seeing the large purple sheets of the stuff. The growth is probably fueled by available nutrients in the water from the die-off. Either way, I'd siphon whatever it is out as it's an easily removed reservoir of trapped nutrients that you'd probably want out of your tank anyway.

 

I spent from about noon to two this afternoon siphoning off what I could through a 100-micron sock and got quite a bit of junk. I've also turned the lights off.

 

I suppose the GHA could be producing bubbles, but it wasn't before the crash, and this stuff (while it popped up after) was all over after only 12 hours, which seems fast for decomposition to free up nutrients.

 

This is the pic that makes me think Dino. I see no hair algae on this coral. The fact that your fish died mysteriously; fish can die from eating dino. The loss of power and water and then this pops up so fast. One or two of the authors of the links I posted had similar circumstances that led to their dino outbreak.

 

That's what I'm thinking, too. But my wife just threatened to confiscate my laptop if I don't get to work on her stuff, so I'd better get on it. I'll try to post test results later this evening.

[Coral Hind]

If there was a shift in the tank pH it can cause nutrients to leach out of rocks and sand beds. That might be where it came from so quickly.

[Ectogamut]

Dunno if anyone is still viewing this thread at all, but I currently have the same kind of situation happening in my tank: GHA covered in what looks to be cyano/dinos. For me, it seems that dosing No3Po4-X by Red Sea seemed to spark this nutrient release from the rocks. I'm sure your issue has been resolved by this point, and if it has, I would love to hear your experience, but I've been told that as long as I keep increasing the bacteria colonies via dosing the NOPOX, eventually it will out-compete the algae/cyano. Would love to hear anyone's insights on this even though the thread has been dead for the last couple years

[s2nhle]

I have been dosing voka mixed with vinegar and water daily. It is a big help.

[LCDRDATA]

I just saw this; I'll need to go back and think about where things went, but I did finally get this stabilized and cleaned up.