monkiboy February 27, 2013 Share February 27, 2013 i'm working on a new build - a 210g that will be SPS dominant. its dimensions are 7'x2'x2'. it will have a closed loop with an om-4. the om-4 description states it can handle upwards of 7500gph without issue. the closed loop will be the primary form of circulation and no additional power-heads will be utilized. the sump will have a separate pump for return that will be appropriate to maximize the sump use. i was thinking that to make the most of the closed-loop system and cover the entire foot print of the tank adequately for the demanding flow needs of SPS, i will need to multiply the flow outlets of the om-4. possibly splitting each outlet twice or even three times on one to adequately cover the tank. the questions i have are in regards to: - closed-loop design with an om-4 in terms of where to drill for the inlets/outlets? - how folks have made these openings inconspicuous? - do folks typically run two external pumps for redundancy purposes with an om-4? - which external pumps to select that would be energy efficient, push a lot of water, and quiet? i am thinking to use the amount of outlets to the tank i will likely need to cover the tank space for SPS, i will need to come close to maxing out the 7500gph flow of the om-4. do you agree? - would it be better to pick up an om-8 way? i could not find any information if it were able to support more flow than the 4-way or not but have an email to ocean's motion. thanks for any input and insight you can provide - it is much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami February 27, 2013 Share February 27, 2013 Dave Lin should chime in on this with his CL experience.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy February 27, 2013 Author Share February 27, 2013 Dave Lin should chime in on this with his CL experience.... ok. i'll pm him if i dont hear from him in a couple days on here. i'm sure you have some input, though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS February 27, 2013 Share February 27, 2013 take a look at my build thread. 2 OM4 ways and lots of plumbing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS February 27, 2013 Share February 27, 2013 As far as inconspicuous openings, the tank photos are pretty new so a few are still obvious but most people can't find the 8 CL returns in the photos... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy February 27, 2013 Author Share February 27, 2013 thanks for the replies. any input on the other topics? i will take a look through your build thread shortly. thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami February 27, 2013 Share February 27, 2013 i'm sure you have some input, though! No. Not really. I've never run a closed loop. I think they'll make somewhat of a comeback, though, with the advent of some of these newer and controllable, power efficient pumps. Put a couple of them on a decent sized tank and, with the right outlets and ability to control the pump (possibly through a controller) you can probably set up some really nice flow patterns relatively inexpensively. Case in point, Evan (der Abt) mentioned in another thread the recently announced Waveline DC-6000 which will be controllable by an Apex. One lesson that I remember Dave learning had to do with the size of the return. His was too small and was, I believe, unguarded. He wound up with a fish getting pulled up against the intake. In his case, I think he was running Reeflo Hammerheads on the closed loop. I've seen pictures and threads where people have used those jets that you find in hot tubs for the pressure side, too. They had an advantage where they could be directed yet also remain fairly close to the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoutlaw February 27, 2013 Share February 27, 2013 You could do something like this and just split the outputs on the OM 4 way and make it an 8 way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k February 27, 2013 Share February 27, 2013 I'm wondering if with all the issues of OM-4's that there should be a better solution. It's kind of antiquated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy February 27, 2013 Author Share February 27, 2013 You could do something like this and just split the outputs on the OM 4 way and make it an 8 way. did you mean to post a photo or link? I'm wondering if with all the issues of OM-4's that there should be a better solution. It's kind of antiquated. have you had any problems with them? if you can think of a better way to do what i am setting out to do, i'd love to hear suggestions too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy February 28, 2013 Author Share February 28, 2013 (edited) for my own reference and edification in the future: "On the CL, I definitely recommend running the largest "drain" you can - it reduces the suction effect so your fish won't be bothered. I used 2 2" drains to feed my OM 4-way on a Barracuda. The returns are all 1" - if I remember right, that's what comes out of the OM 4-way. If I were you, I'd do something similar. Either 1 or 2 2" drains to feed each Dart and the returns from the OM as 1". Another thing to consider is spreading the returns from the 4-way across the whole tank as opposed to positioning them on each side. So 2 on the left, 2 right of center from 1 OM, and 2 on the right and 2 left of center from the other OM. This will spread your flow across the whole tank and your randomness should be increased." 2" intake strainer - http://www.aquaticec...ners/strainer/ Edited February 28, 2013 by monkiboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve175 February 28, 2013 Share February 28, 2013 Honestly, if I were to do it over again, I would skip the closed loops. I have, effectively, a 500G with 2 closed loops (each pushed with a hammerhead), 2 large koralias, and 4 very large tunzes. The PHs push way better flow/random flow (granted I did not use a OM4) and use WAY less electricity. I put the inlets low to hid them (through the bottom): although they extend ~ 6" above the sandbed, they frequently get clogged with sand which is a PIA and the inlet screens are hard to get to to clean through the SPS. The inlet recently shredded a large hadoni which managed to migrate into it (it made it but is half the size and only made it because I realized the problem quickly). The only thing I like about the CLs is that I think it is a much more efficient way to run a chiller and UV from the DT in a large system. If I were to do it again, I would load up the tank with concealed large tunzes or Vortech's and skip the CL altogether. Also, 8 extra BHs in a tank gives me the heeby-jeebies (really 10 for the 2 inlets) unless you are planning to run them up an over which, IMO, would look less good than several carefully planned Tunzes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoutlaw February 28, 2013 Share February 28, 2013 Sorry: http://wamas.org/forums/topic/6245-my-new-215-oceanic/ Also, Dave Lin plumbed his tank with an OM 8 way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 February 28, 2013 Share February 28, 2013 Check out my build thread, it's got details of my closed loop. I had one problem when I first started it that the sand got into the 8 way and I had to clean it. Running non-stop since then. I love my closed loops (one pump locked up so it's offline for the time being). I have plenty of flow and the 8 way gives me variety as it splits to 2 at a time. I have 4 returns at the top of the tank and 4 behind the rocks along with another dedicated closed loop (dead pump) that comes out of 2 holes in the back. I feel I have more flow water circulating in my system than people do with vortechs/tunzes because of the closed loops and I also don't have powerheads in the tank, either. That said, to each his own, I like the way I did it but others probably hate the way I did it and would never cut a hole in their tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy February 28, 2013 Author Share February 28, 2013 hi dave, thanks for your input. i read through your journal already. thank you for posting photos and describing some of it along the way. i'm really between the two obvious options. i dont mind drilling my glass tank for all the holes. i'd likely use two om4s for redundancy if i did do it. there is certainly the chance for leaks but i've never had problems with them before as i tend to be quite meticulous in most things i do. but then again, the portable nature of vortechs with a changing reef environment would be nice, as is the efficiency. i dont know, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind February 28, 2013 Share February 28, 2013 but then again, the portable nature of vortechs with a changing reef environment would be nice, as is the efficiency. To me those are big pluses. I also don't like adding all those bulkheads which are points of failure on the tank. If you do use bulkheads get the heavy duty type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Der ABT February 28, 2013 Share February 28, 2013 agree with dave here....never had a closed look and always thought they were asking for leaks down the road.....14 bulkheads vs 4 for most tanks. that being said my new tank has 4 holes not being used where i removed the overflows....most likely will try to use them as a small closed look...was going to just cap them but that seems like a waste to me since the holes are already there.... but if you have to buy all new pumps...that can get VERY costly on a large tank especially for the flow i like.....but i do like the link above to gatortails with the closed look and tunze combo....my plan was similar .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohaverd March 1, 2013 Share March 1, 2013 Here is the way mine works... originally designed by Brian Ward. I've since made a couple of minor adjustments. keep in mind there is also the two return in the top corners of the tank that help complete the turbulant flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkiboy March 1, 2013 Author Share March 1, 2013 that's a great image you put together - fantastic and thank you! i'm leaning the way of a faux sand bed, 2 mp40s and a few mp10s right now, though. yeah, can't help looking it over again, great illustration! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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