tips on building quieter tank

[jimlin]

http://reefbuilders.com/2013/02/06/building-silent-reef/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+reefbuilders%2FCTjt+%28Reef+Builders%29

[zygote2k]

those are "try at your own risk" tips.

you can easily keep it silent by using the holes in the overflow as they were intended and not blocking the teeth either. A drain box will go much further in keeping the noise down and looks better too.

[jimlin]

ya, some of the tips looked a little sketchy. i am sure they can cut thb bag a little shorter so that it is less likely to clog the drain, but probably not worth the risk.

[Origami]

I think I see what the baggie's supposed to do. It provides a surface for the water to run down (clinging to the bag), rather than cascading down through the air into the overflow compartment. I did something similar in a sump once, by setting a sheet of acrylic at an angle in a compartment below the edge of the teeth. You could probably do something similar with a small sheet of acrylic laid in the back compartment in such a way that it did not move and could not block a drain.

[fry_school101]

The bag is kinda silly IMHO. All they are trying to do is reduce splash over the overflow which could be accomplished by raising the top of the drain pipe to be closer to the top of the overflow. He has a 6" drop to the top of his pipes. 2 pipes with a gate valve is the safest and only way I have found to make an overflow COMPLETELY silent. I sleep in the same room as my tanks, so I have done a lot of experimenting.

 

+1 about the pumps though. Your pumps will make a big difference. I like Eheim pumps. They are the quietest I have found.

[zygote2k]

I think the 2 pipe method was dreamed up by paranoid folks and now many people are worried about drains becoming blocked and tanks flooding. In my 21 years of doing maintenance and working in LFS, I've only witnessed this event twice.

A simple overflow with a standpipe and a drain bigger than 1" completely eliminates this worry. A drain box on the sump eliminates all of the air sounds and eliminates ALL of the salt creep.

Keep it simple.

My tank is in my dining room and I sit on the couch 10' away watching television and the only thing I can hear is the air intake on the skimmer. If I listen real closely, I can make out the very quiet hum of the Mag 9 return pump. Overall, it's a 7 on the 1-10 quiet scale.

[jimlin]

what about a filter sock instead of a drain box?

[zygote2k]

filter sock is ok if you're trying to remove particulates but still has salt creep issues.

[BowieReefer84]

The full siphon method is amazing, and if building a custom tank it doesn't make sense to do it any other way imo. It's dead silent with zero bubbles.

 

It also doesn't need to be as complicated as the diagram on beananimals site. You can simply use three straight pipes in the overflow box of different heights. The only added cost really is the gate valve, and what's $20 when looking at the cost of a build?

[jimlin]

any recommendations on a quiet air pump? i am in need of one in the future for a algae scrubber im looking to purchase.

[Steve175]

Air pump in an ATS?

[jimlin]

http://www.santa-monica.cc/Hang-On-Glass-HOG-Upflow-Algae-Scrubber-UAS--05-Cubes-feeding-per-day--MAGNET-VERSION_p_21.htmlthis is what i plan to get.

[DaveS]

I think the 2 pipe method was dreamed up by paranoid folks and now many people are worried about drains becoming blocked and tanks flooding. In my 21 years of doing maintenance and working in LFS, I've only witnessed this event twice.

 

I wonder if those two owners though having a backup was just being too paranoid.

[Origami]

Air pump in an ATS?

Reverse- or up- flow ATS. The growing screen sits under water and is oxygenated by a long airstone below that's driven by an air pump.

[fry_school101]

I think the 2 pipe method was dreamed up by paranoid folks and now many people are worried about drains becoming blocked and tanks flooding. In my 21 years of doing maintenance and working in LFS, I've only witnessed this event twice.

A simple overflow with a standpipe and a drain bigger than 1" completely eliminates this worry. A drain box on the sump eliminates all of the air sounds and eliminates ALL of the salt creep.

Keep it simple.

My tank is in my dining room and I sit on the couch 10' away watching television and the only thing I can hear is the air intake on the skimmer. If I listen real closely, I can make out the very quiet hum of the Mag 9 return pump. Overall, it's a 7 on the 1-10 quiet scale.

 

Maybe, but would you like to be one of those two people who had to pay to replace expensive hardwood floors and the ceiling of the room below?

 

Besides, the two pipe method is for making it silent. Even if it didn't do anything for redundancy. It can't be beat for that. The third pipe in the bean animal version is overkill in my mind because as long as the second pipe is the same size or larger it can drain just as much as the first - which is necked down to begin with.

 

 

 

http://www.santa-mon...RSION_p_21.htmlthis is what i plan to get.

 

Those look interesting, but that is only good for 1/2 a cube of fish food a day. Are you only going to have one tiny fish? Those forums have a lot of good and interesting information, but 1/2 cube a day seems like a token gesture and not really practical for anything. If you want an ATS, you may as well have one large enough to make some kind of a difference.

[jimlin]

Maybe, but would you like to be one of those two people who had to pay to replace expensive hardwood floors and the ceiling of the room below?

 

Besides, the two pipe method is for making it silent. Even if it didn't do anything for redundancy. It can't be beat for that. The third pipe in the bean animal version is overkill in my mind because as long as the second pipe is the same size or larger it can drain just as much as the first - which is necked down to begin with.

 

 

 

 

 

Those look interesting, but that is only good for 1/2 a cube of fish food a day. Are you only going to have one tiny fish? Those forums have a lot of good and interesting information, but 1/2 cube a day seems like a token gesture and not really practical for anything. If you want an ATS, you may as well have one large enough to make some kind of a difference.

It will be used on a 24 gallon tank with 20 gallon fuge. large skimmer rated for 100 gallons and biopellets. the ats will allow me to feed 1/2 cube a day, but i think the rest of my system will allow me to feed a little more. i only plan to keep 3 fish max in there.

[zygote2k]

I wonder if those two owners though having a backup was just being too paranoid.

First of all, "emergency drains" are relatively new and on the most recent drain blockage, another maintenance company installed 2) 1" drains on this particular tank when the sheer size of it dictated 2) 1.5" drains minimum. A snail fit perfectly into the 1" pipe and blocked half of the flow resulting in a water over the top of the tank scenario. When you use correct size drains, this issue NEVER happens.

Maybe, but would you like to be one of those two people who had to pay to replace expensive hardwood floors and the ceiling of the room below?

 

Besides, the two pipe method is for making it silent. Even if it didn't do anything for redundancy. It can't be beat for that. The third pipe in the bean animal version is overkill in my mind because as long as the second pipe is the same size or larger it can drain just as much as the first - which is necked down to begin with.

Both of these incidents happened in places where large volumes of water were present and both situations happened in presence of floor drains. Both were caused by poor design. The 'problem' that I see with using bean types is that all of the extra piping is completely unneccessary if you design the drain system correctly using the standard 1 drain and 1 or 2 returns like 99% of the tanks out there. You can use a 1.5" or 2" drain in conjunction with a simple standpipe and drain box and make a totally dead silent overflow in a standard overflow box without having to create all the extra room/piping/valving that bean designs need.

Anyone ever remember that 'KISS' acronym?

[hypertech]

You are spreading bad information about emergency drains again. People are going to read this and think you are referring to siphon type systems like a herbie, which is the context in which an emergency drain is most often referred to.

 

Simply put, if you run a full siphon drain like a herbie, which is practically guaranteed to be silent, you MUST have an emergency drain. If anything gets into the full siphon drain, it WILL start to back up and it WILL overflow without the emergency drain.

 

If you run a properly sized durso or something like that, an emergency drain might be overkill. Those types of drains can be pretty quiet, but the success rate at achieving low noise is much lower than with the siphon style drain.

Edited February 9, 2013 by hypertech

[zygote2k]

You are spreading bad information about emergency drains again. People are going to read this and think you are referring to siphon type systems like a herbie, which is the context in which an emergency drain is most often referred to.

 

Simply put, if you run a full siphon drain like a herbie, which is practically guaranteed to be silent, you MUST have an emergency drain. If anything gets into the full siphon drain, it WILL start to back up and it WILL overflow without the emergency drain.

 

If you run a properly sized durso or something like that, an emergency drain might be overkill. Those types of drains can be pretty quiet, but the success rate at achieving low noise is much lower than with the siphon style drain.

I'm not spreading bad information about anything, I'm simply pointing out that all of that stuff isn't needed if you do it right.

I'm sure a Herbie works fine, but it's adding a few extra steps and more components to the the same job as a simple standpipe and properly sized drain will do.

Why is it that all of the major brands of tank manufacturers go with the basic internal or external overflow box and not the Herbie method? It's because it's been proven to work if plumbed correctly and be silent if the right type of sump configuration is made.

I prefer to use the shortest distance between 2 points, but for some reason people are choosing to go in a curved path and it simply doesn't make sense.... why make it more elaborate if you can do the same job in a simpler way?

[zygote2k]

an additional comment-

I work on so many tanks that have many different styles of overflows including the 3 pipe method, dursos, simple standpipes, internal, external, simple strainer, etc. that I actually get to play with and experiment with to figure out which method works best to eliminate noise and what I've found is that 90% of the noise comes from the way the water enters the sump, NOT the overflow configuration. This is why I talk about the drain box so much. This is the simplest way to keep ANY overflow configuration quiet.

[fry_school101]

Just be be clear, I am advocating for two pipes - just like the standard tank has. I have a "standard" 180 with two built in overflows with two holes in each. The small hole is a full siphon and has a gate valve on it. The large one is wide open and only gets the barest trickle of water unless something gets plugged. A lot of the noise does come from the sump, we agree there, but most people first respond the the gurgles and sucking noises they hear before they deal with the plumbing below. Granted, that is part of the problem and just making sure the ends of the pipes are under the water line in the sump will help tremendously. That last 10% may not be an issue when the tank is in an office or possibly even a living room, but if there is noise in your bedroom or media room it makes a big difference.

 

Tank manufacturers don't need to do anything different because two pipes are sufficient. We agree that three pipes are overkill if things are set up correctly. Saying that they do it because the megaflows or whatever they package it with are perfect is silly. If they were as silent as they are supposed to be no one would have gone to find something different and almost everyone has looked for something they could do to quiet their tank down. Durso setups work okay, but some people need better than that. Adding a gate valve takes one extra part and you can eliminate the durso's air valve so we can call the number of parts a wash. You don't have to change any of your plumbing; just add a gate valve. Eliminating the bubbles flowing through the pipes gets you that last 10% which takes you from quiet to completely silent.

Edited February 10, 2013 by fry_school101