netpez July 29, 2012 Share July 29, 2012 (edited) Hi all! I am new to the community and last night was the start of our (my wife Huly just joined as well) Reef Aquarium adventure! A couple weeks ago, we were privileged to be able to get our hands on a Red Sea Max 250 (65 gal). We figured the all in one setup would be good for rookies to the saltwater game and allow us a little leniency in our inexperience. We have been talking to a million folks and reading articles, blogs, forums and books. The only downside to that of course is that everyone has their own way of doing things (frustrating for someone looking for straight answers). I setup the stand and the main tank along with the hood. While the systems itself is very cool and sleek looking, their instructions could use a bit more details and diagrams for those of us that are rookies with this equipment and don't fully understand their relationships (a youtube vide of a tank setup would be even better). Frustrations arose (specifically around the installation of the skimmer), and I cursed red sea max several times, but in the end, I got it done. My wife and I are from Leesburg, VA, and we found a jewel of a place in Catharpin, VA called Blue Ribbon Koi (apparently well known on here) who were extremely knowledgaeble and were great folks to talk to about my setup. Given that we were initially setting up the system and I wanted 40 lbs+ of live rock, we took a trip up to That Fish Place in Lancaster, PA (yeah about a 2.5 hour drive) where we were able to pick up about 40 lbs of live rock and about 30 lbs of dead rock (some really cool pieces) for about 300 bucks (they have a big summer discount going on). I already had some sand (2x40lb bags of CaribSea Ocean Direct Live Sand + 5 lb bag) from the guy I got the aquarium from. We ran out to Marine Scene for a buttload of 5 gallon tanks of RO/DI saltwater and some RO/DI freshwater (for top offs and other necessities). I thoroughly hosed down the dead rock till it ran clear and stacked the dead rock at the base and the live rock on top (girl at that fish place said no need for rinsing the rock as the stuff that comes off helps with the cycling of the tank. I hope that by stacking the live on top, that it seeds the rock below it. In the process of the stacking I made sure to create lots of caves and swim throughs so that my fish have a big playground! I took the hose again and thoroughly rinsed my live sand for about 10 min per batch making sure that I was scooping through all the sand and hopefully getting rid of all the dust and any fine particles or whatever else should not be in there. We put the sand in the tank making sure to spread it fairly evenly throughout the tank and all around the rocks. I then started process of filling the tank with the saltwater.... this thing takes a lot of water! The proceses of filling the tank of course swirled the water (though I was spilling the water on the rocks trying to avoid direct pouring on the sand). after all was said and done we had...... a nice milky tank! LOL... Where did our rocks go? The tank cleared significantly after about 6 hours, so I kicked off the pump leading through the filtration section and the pump that leads through the heating section of the tank. I did not turn the skimmer on, becuase I figure there is no protein to process and I did not turn the heater on because the water was already around 80 degrees (still is after about 12-14 hours). The tank has really cleared up and the pumps seem to be doing their jobs. One thing that I did not mention, is that while I did keep the carbon bag in the red sea max filtration system (after rinsing of course), I replaced the contents of the biological bag (some sort of chalky white cylindrical objects) with a bunch of little chunks of live rock with a larger piece sitting on top of that bag. This has been recommended by a few folks I have talked to. As of now, the tank has been running with the filtration pumps since about 4:00am this morning (was up due to a long night of work). The tank looks good and I performed my first set of tests.. I also took some water in to a LFS to confirm my scores. Here is what I got from my Coralife Deep Six Hydrometer: Specific Gravity/Salinity PPT: 1.025 to 1.026/34 Here is what I got from my API Saltwater Master Test Kit: Ammonia: 0 to 0.25 Ph: 7.9 nitrite: 2.0 nitrate: 20 Here is what my LFS got from using API 5 in 1 Aquarium Test Strips: Ph: 7 (way off from what I got) nitrite (NO2): 0 nitrate (NO3): 20 General Hardness (GH): 60 Carbonate Hardness (KH): 80 I am going to compile a list of questions and concerns I have in my next post, but for right now, here are some pics of the tank: Edited July 29, 2012 by netpez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishie July 29, 2012 Share July 29, 2012 Welcome to the hobby...grats on ur setup...enjoy this fun phase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbgen12 July 29, 2012 Share July 29, 2012 Welcome and it's definitely an adventure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nbgen12 July 29, 2012 Share July 29, 2012 Oh, and my first and most important tip...DO NOT buy a damsel of any kind because they will terrorize every fish and it will be a source of major frustration in a tank around that size. I made that mistake in my 55g which I just got rid of for a 75g, and I couldn't keep anything other than a chromi with the damsel. It just constantly picked at the other fish's fins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind July 29, 2012 Share July 29, 2012 Welcome to WAMAS and to reefing. It looks like you have a nice setup started. Looking forward to that list of questions. The API 5 in 1 to me is better for freshwater tanks and is not accurate enough for what you want. The directions for the 5 in 1 even state for "precise readings" use individual test kits. I would go with the individual liquid drop test kits. GH is mainly for freshwater so I wouldn't worry about that number but the dKH reading seems really low. I would double check the readings again and slowly adjust your alk levels back up to 8dKH. That will also help to raise and keep your pH up where it should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami July 29, 2012 Share July 29, 2012 Welcome to the hobby! There's a number of us in the Leesburg area. You're probably going to want to consider joining WAMAS as a full member. Others can tell you all about what goes on here, but for a quick orientation, click on the link in my signature block below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netpez July 29, 2012 Author Share July 29, 2012 Issue 1 - Test Kits I find it odd that I saw such a different reading on the ph level as my LFS. The reading of 7 vs 7.9 is major. As mentioned I used the API Saltwater Master Test Kit (using drops) while my LFS used the API 5 in 1 test strip. Is there a difference in reliability? Should I use the strips? Also my kit tests ammonia while the strips do not. The strips test General and Carbonate hardness while mine does not. I could use some recommendations on what I should be testing, and what are the best things to test with. Issue 2 - Ph From the previous issue, my LFS said the Ph is quite low. They recommended using marine buffer, but I am not sure if I should wait on that. From what I understand, the sand and the rock increase and stabilize Ph (is this accurate?) and since I just added my RO/DI stripped saltwater last night , that could explain the low ph and the PH could rise over the time of the cycle. Also, should I be changing anything since my cycle just started last night? Issue 3 - The Cycle I have heard from multiple people that some folks throw dead shrimp in their tank to kickstart the ammonia levels in their tank. As I understand it, the ammonia breaks down into nitrates and nitrites which feed bacteria (is this accurate?) My LFS guy said he never heard of that and that the live rock I got should shed and start its own ammonia cycle and he recommends against the shrimp. I have been hearing that the cycle of ammonia > nitrite/nitrates > bacteria > zero ammonia would be 2 weeks, some say 4, some say 6. What is the general consensus here? I have also heard of people performing multiple cycles to build up more bacteria/maintaining bacteria. The explanation being that once the bacteria eats all the nitrates/nitrites, if it is all gone they die since there is nothing to eat, so once the ammonia levels go down to minimal, he throws more shrimp in and kickstarts the cycle all over again. Can anyone comment on the validity of the bacteria dying off if the ammonia is gone? Is there a cycle guideline that covers every intricate detail? Issue 4 - Start Up Product The LFS that provided our saltwater said that since half of our rock is dead rock, we should use something called "Start Up" from a company called Prodibio. Here is the description: START UP together in the same package STOP AMMO START and START Biodigest. It allows to quickly start the biological filtration of aquarium and then introduce a few hours after the first fish. START UP NANO may be also used to treat a nitrite peak. START STOP AMMO is a product based on extracts of specific plants whose main property is to trap the nitrogen from ammonia. Biodigest START is composed of bacterial natural nitrifying, denitrifying and optional selected for their ability to quickly initiate the nitrogen cycle and thus to transform the ammonia into nitrites, nitrates and nitrites into nitrate nitrogen. START UP allows you to rapidly introduce third of your toughest fish in your aquarium (after 4 hours in fresh water after 12 hours in seawater). This seems counter-productive to the natural cycle process correct? Should I use this product? What are the advantages vs disadvantages? Issue 5 - Aiptasia I was told that if you get live rock you will probably get aiptasia no matter where you get it. Now one of the tricks I heard was getting Peppermint Shrimp which love aiptasia, but my LFS guy said that sure it does, but once it is done with the aiptasia it will go after my coral. That is the last thing I want! I have heard of injections you can use, but I don't think I am experienced enough for that. I also heard other methods which involve taking the rock out, but I have that stuff in there exactly as I want it, and I really don't want to take it out. Does anyone know of an easy method to get rid of the stuff before it comes time to add my corals? Issues 6 - Water temp At this point in time, our water temp is 80 degrees. Our house ranges from 73-76 degrees. At the time I added the water, I did not have a thermometer, so I was not able to read the temp then. How long will a 65 gallon tank adjust to the ambient temperature in a room? There is no direct sunlight on the aquarium (there is ambient light from a well lit room - lots of windows - again no direct sunlight). Issue 7 - Red Sea Max I was wondering if anyone here has experience with a red sea max (I have the 250). I was wondering what issues people may have come across and how they resolved them. I am also interested in tweaks people have made to the system as an example I have heard of people adding chillers, powerheads, phosphate reactors, UV filters, etc. Any input into this system and its shortfalls would be greatly appreciated! Issue 8 - The good stuff! After the cylce is complete, what are the recommendations on what to add to the system at the beginning. I have heard of snails and hermit crabs to get rid of the crap that will grow during the cycling period. Anyone have recommendations on which ones? Also how long till I can add corals and fish? should fish come first, or corals? Any input is appreciated! I think that is it for my questions, but any other tips and tricks for a beginner would be awesome! Thanks all !! Pez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netpez July 29, 2012 Author Share July 29, 2012 Welcome to WAMAS and to reefing. It looks like you have a nice setup started. Looking forward to that list of questions. The API 5 in 1 to me is better for freshwater tanks and is not accurate enough for what you want. The directions for the 5 in 1 even state for "precise readings" use individual test kits. I would go with the individual liquid drop test kits. GH is mainly for freshwater so I wouldn't worry about that number but the dKH reading seems really low. I would double check the readings again and slowly adjust your alk levels back up to 8dKH. That will also help to raise and keep your pH up where it should be. Dkh? Is that the general hardness test that they had on their 5 in 1 strip? Is that alkalinity? Forgive my ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huly July 29, 2012 Share July 29, 2012 Welcome to the hobby! There's a number of us in the Leesburg area. You're probably going to want to consider joining WAMAS as a full member. Others can tell you all about what goes on here, but for a quick orientation, click on the link in my signature block below. Thanks for your help yesterday with my account Tom. As you can see we have been really busy LOL so I was not able to post yesterday but the husband joined today where we are both here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind July 29, 2012 Share July 29, 2012 No, don't worry about the GH. The dKH (degrees Carbonate Hardness) is the "Carbonate Hardness" or KH on those test strips. Your reading of 80ppm KH is divided by 17.9 to get the dKH. dKH is just the form most reefers use when talking about alk levels. Natural sea water is 6-8 dKH but most reefers shot for 8-12 dKH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surf&turf July 30, 2012 Share July 30, 2012 Welcome!! Your scape looks great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind July 30, 2012 Share July 30, 2012 Thanks for your help yesterday with my account Tom. As you can see we have been really busy LOL so I was not able to post yesterday but the husband joined today where we are both here. A welcome to you too. You will see we have several husband and wife teams hear. I would shot for an SG of 1.024 to 1.025 when using the deep six swing arm as they can sometimes show a lower then actual reading. Aiming for 1.026 doesn't give much room for error at the high end like that. Calibrate or verify it against the refractometer at your LFS to make sure it is reading true. Here is a page from LA which goes over recommended water parameters. I will say that I don't agree with their water temp on that chart, way to low. http://www.liveaquaria.com/general/general.cfm?general_pagesid=352 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huly July 30, 2012 Share July 30, 2012 Thanks for all your help. We appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k July 30, 2012 Share July 30, 2012 Welcome to the club- lots of advice here. If your LFS uses 5-in-1 trips and has never heard of cycling a tank with a shrimp, maybe you should find a better LFS. The 2 that you have mentioned (BRK and MS) are excellent. If you're in this for the long haul, buy a refractometer and some good test kits like Ca, Alk, Mg, N03, pH, and P04. As far as Aiptasia go, it's more than likely that you will get some. Atlantic Peppermint shrimp are Aiptasia eaters and won't eat corals. As far as things eating corals goes, unless you have a specific critter that is known to eat corals, corals that are dying or are injured fall prey to scavengers frequently. Let your tank cycle by using the dead shrimp method or if you can handle it, by pee-ing in your tank. Ammonia starts it off... Don't add clean-up-crew until your tank has gone through the algae cycle. Otherwise they will starve or eat each other. Buy a bottle of Revive coral cleaner and dip all corals before introduction to your tank. Buy only quarantined fish- some places do not QT their fish. Ask questions if you are unsure of anything, but be warned that you might get multiple answers... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netpez July 30, 2012 Author Share July 30, 2012 (edited) Wow! Lots of responses here Thanks all for the welcomes and great info! Coral Hind - What test kits do you recommend? Honestly I wish there was something other than these shades of color matching, because I don't trust my judgement on some of them (the nitrate test I can't tell the difference between the 2.0 and 5.0 shades). Also what is the best way to adjust the alkalinity, and should I be doing that during the cycling process? Also since i just added the water, could that be the reason? (Maybe the effects of sand and rock hasn't occurred yet?). Thanks for the link for the water paramaters. Origami - Will look into that.. Nice to know there are SW folks in the area Surf & turf - Thanks... I do have 1 single piece that is leaning a little bit against the back glass.... is that a problem? Zygote - Wow! Errr... you are the very first person who has mentioned this version of the trickle method... LOL. What test kits do you recommend? Honestly I wish there was something other than these shades of color matching, because I don't trust my judgement on some of them (the nitrate test I can't tell the difference between the 2.0 and 5.0 shades) BRK & MS are great... The lfs I was referring to was Vienna Aquarium (relocated to leesburg).. Will look into refractometer. Is atlantic peppermint shrimp different than a standard variety? Was vienna pulling my leg about them eating corals? Is this the best way to rid myself of the aiptasia? As for the algae cycle, from what I understand this occurs during the ammona > nitrate/nitrate > bacteria > no ammonia cycle right? from what I have heard I will go through a brow algae, then a red one, and then some of the stringy green algae and then the good purple stuff right? can I add them when the green stuff starts arriving or should I wait till no ammonia? Edited July 30, 2012 by netpez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind July 30, 2012 Share July 30, 2012 Issue 1 - Test Kits I find it odd that I saw such a different reading on the ph level as my LFS. The reading of 7 vs 7.9 is major. As mentioned I used the API Saltwater Master Test Kit (using drops) while my LFS used the API 5 in 1 test strip. Is there a difference in reliability? Should I use the strips? Also my kit tests ammonia while the strips do not. The strips test General and Carbonate hardness while mine does not. I could use some recommendations on what I should be testing, and what are the best things to test with. Test for SG, pH, alk(dKH), calcium, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate for now. Later once the tank cycles and you start adding corals you will not really test much if at all for ammonia or nitrite but you will start to test magnesium and maybe other trace elements. Issue 2 - Ph From the previous issue, my LFS said the Ph is quite low. They recommended using marine buffer, but I am not sure if I should wait on that. From what I understand, the sand and the rock increase and stabilize Ph (is this accurate?) and since I just added my RO/DI stripped saltwater last night , that could explain the low ph and the PH could rise over the time of the cycle. Also, should I be changing anything since my cycle just started last night? The rocks and sand offer little buffering and what it can offer it is slower then what your tank needs. You will want to raise it with a marine buffer. Issue 3 - The Cycle I have heard from multiple people that some folks throw dead shrimp in their tank to kickstart the ammonia levels in their tank. As I understand it, the ammonia breaks down into nitrates and nitrites which feed bacteria (is this accurate?) My LFS guy said he never heard of that and that the live rock I got should shed and start its own ammonia cycle and he recommends against the shrimp. I have been hearing that the cycle of ammonia > nitrite/nitrates > bacteria > zero ammonia would be 2 weeks, some say 4, some say 6. What is the general consensus here? I have also heard of people performing multiple cycles to build up more bacteria/maintaining bacteria. The explanation being that once the bacteria eats all the nitrates/nitrites, if it is all gone they die since there is nothing to eat, so once the ammonia levels go down to minimal, he throws more shrimp in and kickstarts the cycle all over again. Can anyone comment on the validity of the bacteria dying off if the ammonia is gone? Is there a cycle guideline that covers every intricate detail? Some use the dead shrimp method and you will find there are lots of ways to go about this hobby and lots of views. I don't like this method and simply use good live rock and products like Prime while slowly adding bio-load to the tank. If you start with live rock and slowly added livestock you may not ever see a full cycle at all. If you do just add the Prime as needed. Looking at your numbers I think your tank is already close to a finished cycle. Issue 4 - Start Up Product The LFS that provided our saltwater said that since half of our rock is dead rock, we should use something called "Start Up" from a company called Prodibio. Here is the description: START UP together in the same package STOP AMMO START and START Biodigest. It allows to quickly start the biological filtration of aquarium and then introduce a few hours after the first fish. START UP NANO may be also used to treat a nitrite peak. START STOP AMMO is a product based on extracts of specific plants whose main property is to trap the nitrogen from ammonia. Biodigest START is composed of bacterial natural nitrifying, denitrifying and optional selected for their ability to quickly initiate the nitrogen cycle and thus to transform the ammonia into nitrites, nitrates and nitrites into nitrate nitrogen. START UP allows you to rapidly introduce third of your toughest fish in your aquarium (after 4 hours in fresh water after 12 hours in seawater). This seems counter-productive to the natural cycle process correct? Should I use this product? What are the advantages vs disadvantages? I don't think the products are needed as the live rock you do have will seed the dead rock. However, it would hurt anything by adding the products. Issue 5 - Aiptasia I was told that if you get live rock you will probably get aiptasia no matter where you get it. Now one of the tricks I heard was getting Peppermint Shrimp which love aiptasia, but my LFS guy said that sure it does, but once it is done with the aiptasia it will go after my coral. That is the last thing I want! I have heard of injections you can use, but I don't think I am experienced enough for that. I also heard other methods which involve taking the rock out, but I have that stuff in there exactly as I want it, and I really don't want to take it out. Does anyone know of an easy method to get rid of the stuff before it comes time to add my corals? I don't like the peppermint approach. One is that not all peppermints sold seem to go after them. Two is just as you heard, they will then go after soft corals and anemones. Look into products like aiptasia-x or the kalk paste method which is what I use. Issues 6 - Water temp At this point in time, our water temp is 80 degrees. Our house ranges from 73-76 degrees. At the time I added the water, I did not have a thermometer, so I was not able to read the temp then. How long will a 65 gallon tank adjust to the ambient temperature in a room? There is no direct sunlight on the aquarium (there is ambient light from a well lit room - lots of windows - again no direct sunlight). No real answer because things like pumps and lights add heat to the tank. With the heat producing items off I would guess the tank would slowly cool down to the 73-76 temp in about 12 hours or so, just a guess. 80F is a perfect temp to me. My tank today ran from 80.5 to 82.2F Issue 7 - Red Sea Max I was wondering if anyone here has experience with a red sea max (I have the 250). I was wondering what issues people may have come across and how they resolved them. I am also interested in tweaks people have made to the system as an example I have heard of people adding chillers, powerheads, phosphate reactors, UV filters, etc. Any input into this system and its shortfalls would be greatly appreciated! I've never had one so I can't comment. Issue 8 - The good stuff! After the cylce is complete, what are the recommendations on what to add to the system at the beginning. I have heard of snails and hermit crabs to get rid of the crap that will grow during the cycling period. Anyone have recommendations on which ones? Also how long till I can add corals and fish? should fish come first, or corals? Any input is appreciated! I think that is it for my questions, but any other tips and tricks for a beginner would be awesome! Thanks all !! Pez Hardy fish come first and wait for the delicate corals. List up what fish you plan to keep in this tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surf&turf July 30, 2012 Share July 30, 2012 Surf & turf - Thanks... I do have 1 single piece that is leaning a little bit against the back glass.... is that a problem? One piece won't hurt as long as you have good flow across the back of the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToddR July 30, 2012 Share July 30, 2012 Welcome to the hobby!!!!! As frustrating as it can be sometimes, I get alot of enjoyment out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkey18 July 30, 2012 Share July 30, 2012 Welcome! I am using the dead shrimp method to cycle my new tank, despite Zygotes advice to pee in it. It is great advice, and does work, but, um, well..... I added two large shrimp to my 250 and am now 7 weeks into the cycle. Mine is going slow for a number of reasons, primarily because I started will all dead rock and no live rock. A 4 to 6 week cycle is more typical, and refers only to getting the nitrogen cycling. Don't be quick to add anything until your ammonia is zero. Then add things slowly. Your bacterial load needs time to adjust to your ammonia load. In any case, the longer you allow your tank to cycle, the better. Remember, only BAD things happen fast in saltwater tanks. Once your tank is cycled it will then go into a series of natural successions that you should really let take their course with only normal intervention ( i.e. skimming, manual cleaning, macroalgae etc.). Stay away from quick fix chemicals. Stuff like ammo lock is for emergencies to save your livestock, not a regular method off controlling ammonia. Rather than look for a quick chemical fix, find out what the cause of the problem is and fix that... OK back to succession: First you get a diatom bloom ( rust colored film on your glass / sand /rocks). The you get hair algae. Time to start thinking about water changes and macro algae and phosphate control. This is all normal! Your tank will not REALLY stabilize and flourish for about 9 months. You'll be able to grow and keep stuff between now and then but add stuff slowly and don't spend more than $50 on any single fish or coral until after that, and for Goodness sake don't NAME the fish. The more attached you are the more likely they break your heart. I have a red sea max and could NEVER get the "darn" skimmer working properly. I currently use mine as a QT tank so I don't care if the skimmer is working well or not. Good luck. This group is great. PS I also have some great beginner corals I can give you when you are ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami July 30, 2012 Share July 30, 2012 Thanks for your help yesterday with my account Tom. As you can see we have been really busy LOL so I was not able to post yesterday but the husband joined today where we are both here. You're welcome. I'm glad that you're both here now. I hope you'll both be active in the club. Lots of answers ^^up there^^ I see. We've got a great crew here with a lot of knowledge and experience. Now... intros aside, what kind of tank are you two wanting to set up? (BTW, lots of ways to cycle a tank but it mostly boils down to building up a bacterial population which requires feeding the tank some kind of nutrient source. In this process, we're looking mostly to build up populations of bacteria for denitrifying and nitrifying bacteria - those that reduce ammonia ultimately down to harmless nitrogen gas. To build that population, you need to provide a source of ammonia (which is release as a byproduct of decay or mineralization). Hence cycling methods using shrimp (ammonia source through decay), pinches of fish food (decay), pure ammonia (direct), urine (urea, which will breakdown easily into ammonia), and other sources. Some people even jump start their cycles using "bacteria in a bottle" products.) Good luck. Ask questions. And, if you do join, be sure to start a tank build-thread with pictures. It's a great way to record your tank's progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huly July 30, 2012 Share July 30, 2012 Here are some photos I took with my real camera that might give y'all a clearer idea of the set up: Rock Aquascape Starting to fill with water Filled with water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Lazar July 30, 2012 Share July 30, 2012 Issue 7 - Red Sea Max I was wondering if anyone here has experience with a red sea max (I have the 250). I was wondering what issues people may have come across and how they resolved them. I am also interested in tweaks people have made to the system as an example I have heard of people adding chillers, powerheads, phosphate reactors, UV filters, etc. Any input into this system and its shortfalls would be greatly appreciated! Pez, Lots of folks here have RSM 130s, but not so many 250s yet. Gizmoody has a blog on his 250 at http://redseamaxreef.com/. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netpez July 30, 2012 Author Share July 30, 2012 (edited) Coral Hind - What is Prime?, and is bio-load some sort of product with bacteria in it? Being that I am taking more of the natural cycle approach, do I need to use that? I am hearing from some folks not to worry about the Ph right now. I don't think there is anyway I am close to a finished cycle... I am only at the 36 hour mark (30 since turning on the pumps). Can both of those aiptasia products be used while the rock is still in the tank? I really would prefer not having to pull all my rock back out. Also, how do I look for these little buggers? I don;t know if I have any, but I have heard that anyone getting live rock is probably going to get them. Last note: shouldn't a cleanup crew come before the fish? What would you recommend for a cleanup crew? I have heard stay away from any crabs. Surf n turf - Thanks! Sharkey - If my ammonia hits zero, then won't my bacteria die since they have nothing to feed off of? How long should I leave the shrimp in? Should the cleanup crew be added when the ammonia hits zero or slightly before (in order to have a consistent supply of ammonia/nitrate/nitrite to feed off of)? Skimming and manual cleaning I understand, but what is with the macroalgae? I might come back to you with some questions about the skimmer in the RSM.. I am not quite sure to where it should be adjusted and I am not quite sure how these protein skimmers work to begin with. In terms of phosphate control, what is used for that? a phosphate reactor? RSM said that its system should handle everything, is there other ways to handle phosphate? BTW that is one expensive quarantine tank! Origami - Thanks! Jon - Thanks, I have actually been on that blog, and am glad to see he is on this forum. Edited July 30, 2012 by netpez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surf&turf July 30, 2012 Share July 30, 2012 Aiptasia. Bio-load= the amount of critters you add to your system. Fish, cleanup crew, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind July 30, 2012 Share July 30, 2012 Coral Hind - What is Prime?, and is bio-load some sort of product with bacteria in it? Being that I am taking more of the natural cycle approach, do I need to use that? I am hearing from some folks not to worry about the Ph right now. I don't think there is anyway I am close to a finished cycle... I am only at the 36 hour mark (30 since turning on the pumps). Can both of those aiptasia products be used while the rock is still in the tank? I really would prefer not having to pull all my rock back out. Also, how do I look for these little buggers? I don;t know if I have any, but I have heard that anyone getting live rock is probably going to get them. Last note: shouldn't a cleanup crew come before the fish? What would you recommend for a cleanup crew? I have heard stay away from any crabs. Prime is just one of a few products used to neutrilize or detoxify ammonia and nitrite from the water. Even if the tank is cycled, when you increase your bio load you can see a rise in ammonia until the bacteria in the tank increases population to handle the increased waste being produced. I like to keep a bottle on hand just in case. It also helps when you need to mix up saltwater in a hurry without filtering it. When I set a tank up I use Prime and Stability, along with good live rock and a skimmer. A tank can be setup, stocked and running in hours that way. To me the cycle of waiting a month or two is old school but everyone has their ways. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3978+4057&pcatid=4057 http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3975+12021&pcatid=12021 Bioload is just a term for the biological demand placed upon the system's chemical and biological filter. The more fish or corals you add the more the waste produced by that livestock needs to be handled by the nitrogen cycle. I would not worry about aiptasia right now. No need to stress about the tank is cycled and stocking starts. The aiptasia-x is designed to be used underwater. Here is a youtube video: As you are finding out everyone does it differently and others will tell you a different method. For me, If you are doing it the natural way then I don't like to add the clean up crew until after the first couple of hardy fish have been added and are stable. The inverts are more delicate and a slight ammonia spike could kill the snails. Once one or two snails die they start to decompose and the ammonia goes up more killing additional ones and the snow ball is rolling. I currently only have snails in my display tank and I stay away form hermits unless I have a big algae outbreak. I don't like to keep the hermits as they end up killing snail eventually. You have to make changes to your clean up crew as the tank matures and the food sources change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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