General rule of selling frags

[yauger]

I would hope most would know but I have been seen a lot of FS threads and LFS selling frags that have pests on them. Everyone tries to not grow nuisance algae in their tanks but getting something tag along with a frag is poor salesmanship. I'm posting this cause I'm fighting byropsis that tagged along on a frag I purchased. To make a long story short; if your frag tank has nuisance algae please fix the problem before you sell to people.

[treesprite]

Nearly every tank has things that we don't see because they are kept under control by CUC and management of water chemistry. Anyone's tank will sprout up algae if the nutrients are too high, the light wrong, and/or the flow too low. Algae sometimes stays dormant too, and I've had a macro show up on a rock over year after having put that rock in the dark in a pile of rubble... as soon as I put it in the disploay in the light, the stuff showed up.

 

If you really are concerned about things coming in on frag plugs, take the frags off the plugs before you put them in the tank - I have done it a lot, even removing mats of zoanthids and gluing them to something else. Or ask people for frags that are not on plugs - I actually prefer them to come that way.

[zygote2k]

When you buy frags from WAMAS or most any LFS, here are the most common bonus items that you will get even though they are unseen:

1) Aiptasia

2) Hair Algae

3) Bryopsis

4) Majanos

5) AEFW

6) Red Planaria

7) Monti Nudis

8) Red Bugs

9) Valonia

10) Pyramid Snails

 

All of these can be avoided if you follow simple precautions before introducing frags to the tank.

1) Remove all bases

2) Scrub all exposed surfaces that were attached to the base

3) Dip in coral cleaner

4) Quarantine all frags

[Coral Hind]

I agree with both posts above. Removing the frag from the base and dipping it is the best and easiest way to prevent those unwanted hitchhikers.

[trockafella]

Problem is, like josh problem had happen was a bunch of zoas encrusted on a plug. Yes with SPS and even some LPS you might be able to avoid it, but a cluster of zoas is a lot more diffucult. I agree its very annoying when its clearly visable, but its also the buyers option to decline it if you can see it. Somethings really cant be seen at first.

[Jan]

Zoanthids, palythoas and clams can also handle fresh water dips for extended periods of time very well. Not too many pests including certain macro algae can survive a FW dip. Be careful when scrubbing around zoas. Use gloves and goggles. Also inspect between the polyps for egg clusts. Don't forget that the neurotoxins released by zoanthids ans palys can be lethal and will make you very sick. Even the tiniest ones will make you very sick.

 

Never dip SPS in fresh water. They'll die.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Jan

[Jan]

http://www.melevsreef.com/pest_control.html

[Ryan S]

Perfect time to remind everyone that Frag Fest is right around the corner! It will be around July 15th, which is only 2 months away! So cut lots of frags now, so they have 2 months to encrust and heal. And watch out for pests!

[treesprite]

It's not that take zoanthids off of plugs if your careful and go slowly.

[Jan]

Not without gloves.

 

It's not that take zoanthids off of plugs if your careful and go slowly.

[yauger]

It's not that take zoanthids off of plugs if your careful and go slowly.

 

yeah that's not going to happen to a frag that costs $80 per polyp. to be honest with you I have fragged and transferred plenty of Z's & P's in my life time and no matter how careful you are you WILL damage and kill some zoas...

 

yes I do believe their is a level of customer responsibility to do your due diligence by scrubbing and dipping your new frags. However there is a huge level of responsibility on the Seller to know what they are selling and the condition of the frag before the sell it.

 

and BTW fresh water will kill any high end Z's & P's since they are sensitive to all changes (temp, SG, ect..)

 

look I'm not on here posting without doing my own due diligence for dipping and cleaning all my frags I put in my system. this post is to remind people to focus on the hobby a little more than selling and getting $$ for corals.

 

oh and as for a frag system, some of us don't have the luxury of setting a frag tank up...

 

thanks.

[Jan]

I haven't lost a single zoanthid or paly from a FW dip. I've dipped every single one that I have. What makes them more special other than the color and price? Not trying to be difficult here, just trying to understand what the difference is between "high end" and any other paly and zoa that would cause them not to be able to withstand a FW dip.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Jan

[yauger]

I haven't lost a single zoanthid or paly from a FW dip. I've dipped every single one that I have. What makes them more special other than the color and price? Not trying to be difficult here, just trying to understand what the difference is between "high end" and any other paly and zoa that would cause them not to be able to withstand a FW dip.

 

do you have any zoanthids or palys in your tank that are worth $80 per polyp?

[Jan]

Anatomically and structurally they are all the same, aren't they? I have some nice looking zoas in my pico. Have no idea what they go for but a zoanthid is a zoanthid and a palythoa is a palythoa. I'm just trying to understand what make a $1 per polyp dfferent than an $80 per polyp as far as A&P where they would need special handling. Other than being rare because of color, what's the difference? It isn't like a fish. Again, not trying to be difficult i'm just trying to understand.

 

do you have any zoanthids or palys in your tank that are worth $80 per polyp?

Edited May 14, 2012 by Jan

[Jan]

There are conscientious sellers that want the repeat business and care about their reputation and then there are sellers that are just penny wise and pound foolish. Some sellers move so much stock that it isn't a concern to them. We are not going to change a sellers tactics or ethics. We can post our experiences in the vendors forum and tell everyone what happened to us or even just in the member forum or general forum without mentioning names. I do believe it's up to the buyer to know what they are buying. To educate themselves on what to look for before they buy a frag with pests. Especially if they are in a store. When purchasing from an online vendor that's difficult to do.

 

Edited May 14, 2012 by Jan

[Coral Hind]

Anatomically and structurally they are all the same, aren't they? I have some nice looking zoas in my pico. Have no idea what they go for but a zoanthid is a zoanthid and a palythoa is a palythoa. I'm just trying to understand what make a $1 per polyp dfferent than an $80 per polyp as far as A&P where they would need special handling. Other than being rare because of color, what's the difference? It isn't like a fish. Again, not trying to be difficult i'm just trying to understand.

 

I agree that structurally they would be the same, it's just supply and demand that gives that certain coral the "high end" price. I also freshwater dip zoas and palys with no issues.

[yauger]

see thats where I disagree... lets say I have AEFW and I don't say a word to you or someone else about them. you take them home and do a normal dip without being aggressive like you would if you know you had AEFW. you then place that frag in your system and BAM! you have an outbreak. now would it be right for me to wag my finger and say "I told you so"? no it wouldn't, and yes the seller would be getting a angry call.

[yauger]

I agree that structurally they would be the same, it's just supply and demand that gives that certain coral the "high end" price. I also freshwater dip zoas and palys with no issues.

 

some paly's and zoas are sensitive to dips in FW. I've had some in the past do okay but I've also had some that have closed up and melt away. I don't understand the confusion here; let me put it in another way.... some SPS corals are way more sensitive to changes than others; do you agree? and you wouldn't just dip a very expensive frag that was known to be sensitive in just any solution. you would basically find a dip that is very easy on the coral and observe the frag closely.

 

now in my case the seller had been fighting byropsis and didn't tell me, scrubbed the frag and sold it. that type of algae can bloom overnight in any ones tank.

[Jan]

But you can't change someones morals and ethics or make them be honest when they don't want to be. They either have it or they don't. So you have to rely on your knowledge and observation and that's why QT is also important.

 

I agree it's wrong to sell infested frags, but it happens more times than we'd like. Of course saying I told you so doesn't help. So we have to rely on ourselves to be educated, and vigilant. No matter how great the temptation is the cost of trying to get rid of what was introduced into our DT is greater than passing up a bargain or a rare find, that is unless you can treat whatever it is in a different tank.

 

An angry call or a negative experience post isn't going to slow that sellers sales down especially if they're selling outside of our F/S forums and have an ecommerce business.

 

see thats where I disagree... lets say I have AEFW and I don't say a word to you or someone else about them. you take them home and do a normal dip without being aggressive like you would if you know you had AEFW. you then place that frag in your system and BAM! you have an outbreak. now would it be right for me to wag my finger and say "I told you so"? no it wouldn't, and yes the seller would be getting a angry call.

[Coral Hind]

The key lesson here is to act like everything you want to add to your tank is covered in pests until you personally QT it yourself. You can't assume or trust anything.

[Jan]

All my frags are dipped in Revive, Coral Rx or FW. I don't know of a super sensitive SPS that can't handle the first two dips if temp, PH and SG are identical to what it is used to. Usually when a paly or zoa closes up there's something else going on; pests, chemistry is off, lighting is off, etc.

 

How do you know they scrubbed the frag and sold it? Increase your magnesium and/or get a tuxedo urchin. Both work very well for bryopsis. You can even squirt the magnesium directly onto the bryopsis if there isn't a coral near it. It melts it away. You can safely increase mag to 1500 without any adverse effects. I used Kent Marine Tech M and it worked great. Do frequent water changes and skim high. It works, if what you have is bryopsis.

 

some paly's and zoas are sensitive to dips in FW. I've had some in the past do okay but I've also had some that have closed up and melt away. I don't understand the confusion here; let me put it in another way.... some SPS corals are way more sensitive to changes than others; do you agree? and you wouldn't just dip a very expensive frag that was known to be sensitive in just any solution. you would basically find a dip that is very easy on the coral and observe the frag closely.

 

now in my case the seller had been fighting byropsis and didn't tell me, scrubbed the frag and sold it. that type of algae can bloom overnight in any ones tank.

[Jan]

Great advice!...I learned to fw dip Zoas and palys from you.

 

The key lesson here is to act like everything you want to add to your tank is covered in pests until you personally QT it yourself. You can't assume or trust anything.

[GraffitiSpotCorals]

I don't think you can buy corals and not use a qt system and somehow think everything is going to work out. You will get a pest algae or a coral pest at some point.

 

If your a member here that doesn't or hasnt had any of Robs pest list in your tank please chime in.

[yauger]

so if QT is the ultimate answer what can you do when you can't/don't have one? bottom line not everyone has the space in their houses/apartments to setup a second tank/stand/lights to sustain corals/fish. lord knows I don't have the room for it. would I like to have one? of course...

so basically shame on the hobbyist for not going the extra mile for all frags they purchase.

okay gotcha. sounds like more of the same from back in the day. "not my problem" err "should've set up a QT system" HA good to know some things never change. I tell you what, if I have purchased something from you and it turns out you have some kind of pest on it then I never buy anything from you again.

 

back to the zoanthid conversation: let me sell you a frag pack for $380, I'll give you a great deal, 4 different zoas with 2 polyps each. I will warn you that they are sensitive and that you shouldn't FW dip them. lets see how many of these polyps survive the week. and yes sometime polyps close up and melt and it had nothing to do with pests, worms, infections or anything. one minute it is doing great and the very next day it closes up and melts a week later.

[Amuze]

raise your mag

Edited May 14, 2012 by Amuze