Novi January 5, 2012 Share January 5, 2012 I've read the "How to Calculate a Return Pump" page that talks about Head Loss and whatnot and I do not understand it...lol Well kinda. I have a Dual Overflow 200 Gallon Tank and will probably have roughly a 50-60 Gallon Sump/Fuge directly undernieth it in my stand. So.... what I am looking at is the Reeflo Super Dart Gold Pump (4300 GPH). Does that sound about right? If it's too much flow I can always add a Ball Valave and restrict it some what correct? I just do not want to completely suck my sump dry with something to powerful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraffitiSpotCorals January 5, 2012 Share January 5, 2012 What size drains and how many? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvreef January 5, 2012 Share January 5, 2012 I would never try and reduce the water flow by restriction, the back pressure is not good on the pump.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thefishman65 January 5, 2012 Share January 5, 2012 I have read you can restrict them. So can I ask where you are getting that info from? Or are you referring to darts only? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onux20 January 5, 2012 Share January 5, 2012 I have 2 1.5" overflows and a Dart. The Dart was dialed waaaaay down when just supplying the return and fuge. I installed a 4 X 1" manifold and use the Dart to drive my 40 W UV (~2100gph hopefully), Biopellet Rx and fuge area of my sump. Probably still have some capacity. If you are gonna use PHs for water motion in the tank then I think dart is overkill as just a return pump. If you are going to use it to drive a CL or as the primary water motion in the tank, using oceans motions or similar, then go for it. Just make sure you have overflows of adequate number and size to handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extreme_tooth_decay January 5, 2012 Share January 5, 2012 I have read you can restrict them. So can I ask where you are getting that info from? Or are you referring to darts only? Restricting pumps at the output is common and normal. The pump can't tell the difference between that and additional head height. Personally, I always try to size the pump so it does not need restriction, but others take a "bigger is better" approach for future planning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novi January 5, 2012 Author Share January 5, 2012 Well the Bulkheads drilled in the overflow are for 1" and I have dual so (2) 1" Drains. Should I increase that size with a coupler like a 1" to 1.5 or 2" into the sump? I do not have a Closed Loop setup. I was planning on running (2) Vortech MP60's for powerheads on opposite sides of the tank. I will also probably splice in a Media Reactor off the return pump as well... I dont know? That might be too much flow...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thefishman65 January 5, 2012 Share January 5, 2012 Thanks E_T_D that was my understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extreme_tooth_decay January 5, 2012 Share January 5, 2012 Well the Bulkheads drilled in the overflow are for 1" and I have dual so (2) 1" Drains. Should I increase that size with a coupler like a 1" to 1.5 or 2" into the sump? You would still have a 1" choke point at the bulkheads, so this would not increase your flow. You would have to re-drill and install a real 1.5" bulkhead in place of a 1" if you wanted to do that. I'm not sure you need to, you need to calculate that. There is a big difference. As I recall, A 1.5" bulkhead carries about twice as much as a 1" bulkhead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind January 5, 2012 Share January 5, 2012 I think the super dart is going to be a little big for you unless you plan to add other tanks and reactors to it. If you don't need the flow then use a smaller pump with less wattage. I have a 200g Oceanic tank with 2 x 1" overflows and I am using the Water Blaster HY10000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k January 5, 2012 Share January 5, 2012 Chris- I'd recommend that you stick with something like a Mag 12 or 18 for the return or a similar brand. High filter turnover is not as important as high in-tank circulation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epleeds January 6, 2012 Share January 6, 2012 With two MP60's all I would use for the return pump would be an ehiem 1262. There is really no need for more since ur running so much flow in the tank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 January 6, 2012 Share January 6, 2012 I'm on the other end of the spectrum and like overkill on return pumps. 1" pipe is rated at a max of about 900 gph if I recall correctly so with 2 of them you're still left with about 2500 gph that the pump is able to do. Factor in head loss and the fact that you're probably restricting the return as well with 1" pipe or less I would say you've got about 2000 gph left over. If you run a reactor or two off of it, you're likely to only be using a few hundred gph max, so figure you've still got around 1700 gph left over. This will still allow you enough flow for when you add the inevitable supplemental systems or frag tanks. On the Reeflo pumps they also say that when you dial them back they consume less energy. I have never measured myself, but you can very easily restrict the return, just not the intake side. As an FYI, I run a Barracuda as my return and I have a 300 gallon display. It also runs a 20 gallon, a 50 gallon stock tub, a couple of reactors, and also is set up to run my calcium reactor feed when I get it back online. My return goes through two 1" lines. I guess you could also say I run my skimmer off it since it feeds off of the overflow of the tank so there's an additional 900 gph there as well. I have lines that are dialed back so that it's dispersed to the various places in the ratio I want it to, but I'm not sure if it's technically dialed back at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjm817 January 6, 2012 Share January 6, 2012 1" Reef Ready overflow (I assume that is what you are using) is good for about 600 GPH X 2 = 1200 GPH max unless you do a full siphon setup. There is no point in using a return pump that far exceeds that amount. In theory and sometimes in practice, dialing back the pump will reduce power consumption, but its not linear. Dialing back a pump 50% does not reduce power use by nearly that amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowieReefer84 January 6, 2012 Share January 6, 2012 1" Reef Ready overflow (I assume that is what you are using) is good for about 600 GPH X 2 = 1200 GPH max unless you do a full siphon setup. There is no point in using a return pump that far exceeds that amount. In theory and sometimes in practice, dialing back the pump will reduce power consumption, but its not linear. Dialing back a pump 50% does not reduce power use by nearly that amount. Not to disagree, but here is an article stating otherwise. (regarding the 1" drains, not the pumps power consumption...) http://www.wetwebmedia.com/SystemPIX/PlumbingPix/Oneinchart.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novi January 6, 2012 Author Share January 6, 2012 Wow that sucks.... But I do not feel comfortable re-drilling my tank so the Dual 1"'s will have to do. I will go with a smaller pump. I do not want an internal pump though simply because I do not want the added heat that goes along with it. What do you guys think about this pump? Water Blaster HY 7000 Circulating Water Pump * HY7000W * Watts: 88 watts * 97% efficiency * Max Flow=1,800gph * Max Head= 12 ft * Inlet: 1.25" / Outlet: 1" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roni January 6, 2012 Share January 6, 2012 The Bubble Blaster/Water blaster pumps are supposed to be pretty good. The Tunze return pump is really nice as well, though pricey. I'm of the less flow from the sump to the tank and more flow inside the tank school myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novi January 6, 2012 Author Share January 6, 2012 The Bubble Blaster/Water blaster pumps are supposed to be pretty good. The Tunze return pump is really nice as well, though pricey. I'm of the less flow from the sump to the tank and more flow inside the tank school myself. On my last tank (90G) I felt the same way till I had dead spots in my tank and wished I had gone bigger. That was off a MAG Drive 12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roni January 6, 2012 Share January 6, 2012 dead spots aren't about volume of flow but placement and change in flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowieReefer84 January 6, 2012 Share January 6, 2012 If you have two 1" drains and feel comfortable with a herbie design you could run a 1" drain at full siphon with a gate valve. Open 100% with 2 feet of drop a 1" pipe can run roughly 1,700/gph FULL siphon. The other 1" would be an "emergency." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind January 6, 2012 Share January 6, 2012 The Water Blaster I have is very quite. Sean at Fins and Feathers recommended it and he uses the Water Blasters on the store tanks. If you plan to add a frag tank other items that would take some flow I would bump it up to a 10000 model. It's only $20 more for 800gph more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind January 6, 2012 Share January 6, 2012 If you have two 1" drains and feel comfortable with a herbie design you could run a 1" drain at full siphon with a gate valve. Open 100% with 2 feet of drop a 1" pipe can run roughly 1,700/gph FULL siphon. The other 1" would be an "emergency." My understanding of the herbie would require you to valve back the 2nd drain to get the full siphon on #1. With #2 valved back it doesn't really offer much "emergency" flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowieReefer84 January 6, 2012 Share January 6, 2012 On the herbie the gate valve (or ball) goes on the full siphon, and is adjusted to match the return pump as close as possible. The other 1" (backup so to speak) has no restriction and is set at a level above the full siphon in the overflow chamber. It may take a small amount of water that doesn't go through the full siphon. Important to note the full siphon should exit at 1"-2" below water level in sump. The bean animal has a THIRD drain that truly acts as an emergency should the full siphon with gate valve stop draining. Roni has set up this system on his new tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novi January 6, 2012 Author Share January 6, 2012 On the herbie the gate valve (or ball) goes on the full siphon, and is adjusted to match the return pump as close as possible. The other 1" (backup so to speak) has no restriction and is set at a level above the full siphon in the overflow chamber. It may take a small amount of water that doesn't go through the full siphon. Important to note the full siphon should exit at 1"-2" below water level in sump. The bean animal has a THIRD drain that truly acts as an emergency should the full siphon with gate valve stop draining. Roni has set up this system on his new tank. I appreciate the info truely but I have absolutely no idea what your talking about with the Herbie Design? I was going to just run both 1" Drains straight into the sump with a Ball Valve on both. Do you think I should connect them and just go 2 into 1? Similar to how I would go on the return? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowieReefer84 January 6, 2012 Share January 6, 2012 I appreciate the info truely but I have absolutely no idea what your talking about with the Herbie Design? I was going to just run both 1" Drains straight into the sump with a Ball Valve on both. Do you think I should connect them and just go 2 into 1? Similar to how I would go on the return? That would be fine, and I don't want to stop you or change your mind. However, here is a BRS tv link to the herbie overflow discussed better than I can "write." Also, the beananimal is a herbie PLUS a third drain as a backup... http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx Hope this clears up what I was trying to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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