How to raise ph not alk

[Mopar32985]

Here is my question for you guys. In my system right now my ph is stable a 7.9 and my alk is at 10.2. I would like to raise my ph up but not my alk. I'm running bio pellets and I hers its best to keep alk around 8 so would by want to raise it any higher. Any suggestions would be a great help.

 

-Chance-

[bbyatv]

There are lots of WAMAS threads on this issue. I would search for them. But basically I would say outside air to the tank so that CO2 is balanced.

 

Bruce

 

Here is my question for you guys. In my system right now my ph is stable a 7.9 and my alk is at 10.2. I would like to raise my ph up but not my alk. I'm running bio pellets and I hers its best to keep alk around 8 so would by want to raise it any higher. Any suggestions would be a great help.

 

-Chance-

[bbyatv]

Check this site out.

 

http://blog.aquanerd.com/2010/04/air-flow-around-your-aquarium.html

 

Bruce

[Origami]

There are lots of WAMAS threads on this issue. I would search for them. But basically I would say outside air to the tank so that CO2 is balanced.

Agreed. Unless you've got a problem with high organics or similar, your pH is (for the most part) going to track the CO2 content in your water. If the tank is in a well-sealed up home and in a high-traffic, living space, then your pH may be lower because of the increased ambient CO2 concentration. In these cases, feeding your skimmer with outside air can help aerate the tank and to blow off excess CO2.

 

Are you SURE that your pH measurement is right, though? Are you using a recently calibrated probe? When are you taking the measurement (relative to your light cycle)?

 

BTW, a pH of 7.9 is really not all that bad. It's not uncommon to find tanks that use calcium reactors to have a pH of around 7.9.

[Mopar32985]

Thank you guys for your response I appreciate it. I just now picked up ph+ from brigtwell it says it will raise ph without effecting alk. If this doesn't work I will try to run air line outside to lead into skimmer thanks again.

 

-Chance-

[Origami]

Thank you guys for your response I appreciate it. I just now picked up ph+ from brigtwell it says it will raise ph without effecting alk. If this doesn't work I will try to run air line outside to lead into skimmer thanks again.

 

-Chance-

I don't know where you get that it will raise pH without affecting alk. It's certainly not on Brightwell's site. Instead, Brightwell's pH+ product page says the following:

 

Guaranteed Analysis

Carbonate (min) 1,497mg/oz. (50,633 ppm)

 

Ingredients

Purified water, inorganic Carbonate salts

 

Bicarbonate and carbonate are the two forms of the carbonate alkalinity that predominate alkalinity in our tanks. Brightwell's description of the product as "carbonate salts" and it's stabilizing period required for pH to settle indicate it's probably an aqueous mixture of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) and sodium carbonate (soda ash). That would be my guess at least.

 

In effect, the product is adding alkalinity to move up the pH curve.

[Mopar32985]

I don't know where you get that it will raise pH without affecting alk. It's certainly not on Brightwell's site. Instead, Brightwell's pH+ product page says the following:

 

Guaranteed Analysis

Carbonate (min) 1,497mg/oz. (50,633 ppm)

 

Ingredients

Purified water, inorganic Carbonate salts

 

Bicarbonate and carbonate are the two forms of the carbonate alkalinity that predominate alkalinity in our tanks. Brightwell's description of the product as "carbonate salts" and it's stabilizing period required for pH to settle indicate it's probably an aqueous mixture of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) and sodium carbonate (soda ash). That would be my guess at least.

 

In effect, the product is adding alkalinity to move up the pH curve.

 

Thanks you very much for your explanation. Makes more sense to me now.

[Origami]

Chance, what are you using to test your alkalinity and are you sure it's accurate? I had an API test kit a few months ago that was reading 25% high. It was telling me that my alk was up at 10 dKH and it was really at 8 dKH. Similar to you, I was looking for the reason why my pH was running lower than expected.

[Mopar32985]

Chance, what are you using to test your alkalinity and are you sure it's accurate? I had an API test kit a few months ago that was reading 25% high. It was telling me that my alk was up at 10 dKH and it was really at 8 dKH. Similar to you, I was looking for the reason why my pH was running lower than expected.

 

I'm running salifert test kit for alk and API for ph. During my lunch break I added the ph+ to my tank and got some good results my ph jumped up to 8.0 and alk dropped to 9.0 Wich makes me happy want to keep it the 8 range. Also my co worker is bringing in his salifert test kit for ph so I can try his.

 

-Chance-

Edited April 22, 2011 by Mopar32985

[BowieReefer84]

fwiw or you may already know you must not take a sample of water to work to test PH. It needs to be done right after the water is removed from your display.

[Origami]

I'm running salifert test kit for alk and API for ph. During my lunch break I added the ph+ to my tank and got some good results my ph jumped up to 8.0 and alk dropped to 9.0 Wich makes me happy want to keep it the 8 range. Also my co worker is bringing in his salifert test kit for ph so I can try his.

How long after adding the pH+ did you take the tests? The pH will jump quickly with this product because it uses soda ash as one of the carbonate salts and that sucks more CO2 (temporarily) out of the water column. If you use sodium carbonate to dose your tank every day you can create an chemical sink for CO2 that will tend to raise your pH in the short run. However, as soon as the tank water comes back into equilibrium with the atomosphere, your pH will be right where it always was (given that alk has not shifted).

 

Unless your alk consumption drew alk down or you precipitated out alkalinity, there is no reason that you should see an alk drop from a product like pH+.

[Mopar32985]

fwiw or you may already know you must not take a sample of water to work to test PH. It needs to be done right after the water is removed from your display.

Thanks man yea I tested as soon as I pulled it out of the tank but thanks for the tip

[Mopar32985]

How long after adding the pH+ did you take the tests? The pH will jump quickly with this product because it uses soda ash as one of the carbonate salts and that sucks more CO2 (temporarily) out of the water column. If you use sodium carbonate to dose your tank every day you can create an chemical sink for CO2 that will tend to raise your pH in the short run. However, as soon as the tank water comes back into equilibrium with the atomosphere, your pH will be right where it always was (given that alk has not shifted).

 

Unless your alk consumption drew alk down or you precipitated out alkalinity, there is no reason that you should see an alk drop from a product like pH+.

Tested it about 9 hours after adding the ph+. Thanks for that info I was a little shocked with the drop myself. I must had dome the test wrong the 2 days before the last. I think this because I tested the alk twice to make sure.

 

-Chance-

[armydoc]

I have the same issue in my 29g. I have saturated kalkwasser dripping thru a 1.6ml/min BRS doser controlled by an AC3. Circulation is by three Korelia 750's (at least two are on at any given time).

I have used the Holmes-Farley articles as a guide.

 

When I push the tank to 8.4:

1. Alkalinity shoots through the roof ~5.5 meq/L

2. Calcium won't reach above 360

2. My salinity crashes from the freshwater carrier

This is pretty much what is described when you try to correct Zone 4 with kalkwasser so...

 

I am currently trying another strategy. I let the pH drift to 8.1 alkalinity is 4.4meq/l. I now have the drip set to 8.1-8.2. Added some ionic calcium and Mg supplement. I'll check the tank in a few days and see where I am.

I'm hoping once I get the tank "dialed in" I can just go with the kalkwasser. I also anticipate seeing some difference when the weather gets better and I have more fresh air circulation in the house.

[Origami]

Armydoc, were you trying to drive your pH to a target point using a pH controller tied to a kalkwasser dosing system? That's rather risky, don't you think? Depending upon your ambient CO2, you'll run into just the problems that you describe:

 

• 
   
  
• Soaring alkalinity due to overdosing kalk,
  
• Reduced calcium due to abiotic precipitation, and
  
• Decrease in salinity as too much fresh water is added.
  

 

Instead, use kalkwasser to replace your water that has evaporated off of your tank. Let the pH ride. As long as you're not above 8.5 or below 7.7 (or so) and the tank inhabitants look OK, I wouldn't sweat it.

[OldReefer]

Nice pH discussion Tom.

 

Chance - I am running all SPS under intense light with 2 kg of pellets and no tip burining at 10-11 dkh. You have a little room on the alk.

 

All that being said, never pass up a chance to bring outside air to your skimmer. It was a big project for me but the best thing I ever did in 10 years of reefing. The pH went up and got very stable, and I swear the algea started to disappear (slowly).

[Mopar32985]

Nice pH discussion Tom.

 

Chance - I am running all SPS under intense light with 2 kg of pellets and no tip burining at 10-11 dkh. You have a little room on the alk.

 

All that being said, never pass up a chance to bring outside air to your skimmer. It was a big project for me but the best thing I ever did in 10 years of reefing. The pH went up and got very stable, and I swear the algea started to disappear (slowly).

Thank you for letting me know that your alk is a little higher makes me feel no as worried. Also might have to try and run that skimmer line outside. Thanks for your comment.

 

-Chance-

[flowerseller]

Nice pH discussion Tom.

 

Chance - I am running all SPS under intense light with 2 kg of pellets and no tip burining at 10-11 dkh. You have a little room on the alk.

 

All that being said, never pass up a chance to bring outside air to your skimmer. It was a big project for me but the best thing I ever did in 10 years of reefing. The pH went up and got very stable, and I swear the algea started to disappear (slowly).

 

What did you use as the line for fresh air to your skimmer?

Was it a large diameter tube and how long was the run?

I must admit I've been a nay sayer of this so I'd be interested in your project.

My "test" was during a house painting project and then several other "experiments".

 

I still use my DIY down draft skimmer w/expansion chamber that I know draws a ton of air.