bluce January 1, 2011 Share January 1, 2011 I have a 30 gallon tank that I'm going to convert into a sump. I'm going to need some acrylic to build in baffles, compartment, and a stand for the skimmer. The tanks width is 12 1/2" so if you have any left over acrylic pieces for free or cheap please let me know. Also - before I start I wanted to get opinions on where to put a small refuge - I see some sumps with it in the middle and everything flows one direction - water in, then to refuge, to skimmer and water return. I see others where they have the refuge on one side and the return in the middle - i guess this method keeps the water flow at a much lighter level through the refuge. What are your ideas on this? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakotasreef January 1, 2011 Share January 1, 2011 Home depot or lowes has acrylic pretty cheap. Usually with sump design, it boils down to personal preference. I would pick up some acrylic first and try and mock up some layouts and what will work with your equipment. When using thinner acrylic the water levels on either side need to be close to even. If not they will bow and possibly come loose. You could also google sump/five designs and see what looks good. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluce January 1, 2011 Author Share January 1, 2011 I might check Lowes. Last time I went to home depot and looked at acrylic prices they were actually very expensive for just a small sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowieReefer84 January 1, 2011 Share January 1, 2011 Is the 30gal tank glass? If so I would say you should use glass baffles. It would attach easier using silicone. Just a thought. Goodluck on the build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dakotasreef January 1, 2011 Share January 1, 2011 Very true on the glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearTheTerps January 2, 2011 Share January 2, 2011 (edited) The silicone wont bond with acrylic like it does glass. You can use the acrylic just make sure to put the silicone on pretty thick, that will help brace it in place. The best thing to do is to use glass tho, it might even be cheaper then buying the same size piece of acrylic. The best place to get it is at a local hardware store. Take your measurements and they will cut it for you, be sure to shorten your measurement by 1/16 or so that you get a proper fit. Its better to have the piece a little bit short then too long. If its too long the baffle wont go in square, but if its too short the silicone will fill in the small gap. Also if they can have them nip off the bottom corners of the glass, this helps with the gap at the bottom edge of the baffle. If you dont nip the corners the baffle wont sit as close as it can to the bottom of the sump, or the corners of the baffles can cut into the sumps silicone compromising it. And most importantly make sure to use aquarium safe silicone. You might have already know most of that, but I was bored, and its 4 am. Edited January 2, 2011 by FearTheTerps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearTheTerps January 2, 2011 Share January 2, 2011 Forgot about the fuge part, What are you planning on putting in the fuge? Just some cheato? or a DSB? Planning ahead helps to prevent the need to change anything in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluce January 2, 2011 Author Share January 2, 2011 Thanks for the input on the glass - The 30 gallon i bought is glass, so I guess it does make sense to use glass with silicone. You guys think the hardware store would be better than Lowes to get the glass and get it cut? I didn't know about nipping off the corners either, but that also makes alot of sense. Feel free to give me any more suggestions you may have, as this is my first attempt at building a sump. I'll try to post a preliminary diagram of the design. As far as the fuge, I was planning on doing a dsb as long as the measurements work out i.e. I have enough space. I think I would put the dsb - maybe mix some miracle mud in it, and add some LR and perhaps mangrove or just cheato. Thanks for the input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind January 2, 2011 Share January 2, 2011 Banner Glass on Seminary Road is an option if you can't find the glass anywhere else. Make sure you don't get the thin picture frame glass at it will break very easily. You'll want something thicker then that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowerseller January 2, 2011 Share January 2, 2011 If you do go glass baffle, make sure all the edges and corners are rounded over or you'll be making skin slices. I've made several sumps from glass tanks using plexi baffles. No doubt glass is superior but, done correctly and with some thought, plexi baffles can be just fine. Don't use anything less then 1/4" plexi. Start with the highest baffle, the one that determines water height, and silicone in place. Once dry, follow up with a nice bead of silicone all the way around that baffle on both sides, much like chalking in a window pane. Then move on to the other baffles one at a time, again a bead of silicone at least around the outside wall water pressure will be against. Always remember when determining sump water height to allow for back flow from all plumbing and siphon from the tank return(s) so you don't get water on the floor in a power out or return pump off situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind January 2, 2011 Share January 2, 2011 bluce, If you find a broken tank or a piece of glass I can cut it for you. Cutting glass is super easy! If you do go glass baffle, make sure all the edges and corners are rounded over or you'll be making skin slices. I use a sanding block to smooth off the edges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluce January 3, 2011 Author Share January 3, 2011 Thanks ill be looking for materials this week. Coral I appreciate the offer of help on cutting the glass. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluce January 4, 2011 Author Share January 4, 2011 (edited) The design I'm planning on using is below. I decided to put the return in the middle so as not to have too much flow through the fuge (it will get 1/2 the flow). Do you think that 6 inches of empty space at the top is good - i.e. filling the tank up ~ 13 inches? or would you raise the first baffle a few inches higher? I also need to reduce noise as much as possible. The intake flowing into the skimmer area will have a filter sock on it, flowing on top of some sponges or rocks to reduce noise. The output of the skimmer dropping past the first baffle may create too much noise - any ideas to get it quieter are very welcome. I also had problems with micro bubbles in the past - this is an AquaC ev120 skimmer. It's pretty big, so do to space constraints the best position is to have the output of the skimmer right on top of the first baffle. Do you think the 3 baffles will take care of the bubbles before they hit the return? Any other suggestions are appreciated. Edited January 4, 2011 by bluce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FearTheTerps January 5, 2011 Share January 5, 2011 (edited) Your plans look ok, I know you are limited somewhat because of the output of skimmer needing to be a water level. The biggest concern that I see is the size of the return area. With the measurements listed, and the width of the sump is 12.5 inches right?... that makes the volume of the return area to be 4.9 gallons. That size should be fine if you are running a Top Off. If you arent, then you will be toping off by hand alot to make sure the water level doesnt drop too low. With the foot print of the return area, if u evap 1 gallon per day, the level in the return area will drop by 2.75 inches. Edited January 5, 2011 by FearTheTerps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluce January 5, 2011 Author Share January 5, 2011 I will add an ATO once i get it built and tweaked. Coral (Dave) had concerns that having the return in the middle between the intake / skimmer and the fuge would lead to microbubbles. Besides having an effective sump - my 2 main goals are to have virtually no microbubbles and to keep it quiet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowerseller January 5, 2011 Share January 5, 2011 My thoughts too but it really comes down to turn over per section, water thru rate of skimmer, and baffling. In the skimmer section, it looks like one baffle is useless other than acting as a tall support for egg crate mount. Removing that or lowering it so the water is not forced straight down that compartment may help ease David's mind. Also, keeping the water height in the return pump area at about the same height as the last baffle will help, BUTT will severely reduce your flow back capacity in cases of power or pump off situations. I find water over flows on the floor absolutely sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad January 5, 2011 Share January 5, 2011 On the refugium baffles... The way they are set up your refugium level would be just above the lower baffle (is this what you intended?) and will only minimize (not prevent) microbubbles that could be in the refugium section from going into the return section. Depending on what the flow through the refugium is, the overflow from the refugium to the center section could generate more microbubbles. I say could in italics because often the flow through a refugium is slow enough that no bubbles are really generated from that flow. If you want to eliminate microbubbles you really need three baffles like you have on the return section and remember that level in the area is set by the highest of the "overflow" baffles. Unless you have a specific reason to have the refugium level be low, I would make the third baffle just an inch or two below the top of the sump (17-18" high). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluce January 5, 2011 Author Share January 5, 2011 "Also, keeping the water height in the return pump area at about the same height as the last baffle will help, BUTT will severely reduce your flow back capacity in cases of power or pump off situations. I find water over flows on the floor absolutely sucks. " Yes water over flows are horrible! I'm planning on keeping the water height in the return to be at 13 1/4" Just above the 2 baffles on each side of the return (which I was planning on setting at 13"). I wouldn't want it to fall too much lower than 13" - that would create more bubbles as water cascades down, and would eventually put alot of preasure on the last 2 baffles as the preasure would be different on each side. I see how the first baffle doesn't do much if the skimmer is flowing over it - what if i extend that baffle higher and then angle it - and route the water underneath the first one? The skimmer water and intake would have some room to flow down the angled baffle, causing some of the bubbles to dissipate. I'll post an updated diagram soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluce January 5, 2011 Author Share January 5, 2011 "Unless you have a specific reason to have the refugium level be low, I would make the third baffle just an inch or two below the top of the sump (17-18" high). I would love to keep the level that high, but as Chip stated that leaves little room for errors if I'm using an ATO - i'm not worried too much about reverse siphon, as I have a water check valve attached to my return pump. I really want to avoid the potential of an overflow flood in my living room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowerseller January 5, 2011 Share January 5, 2011 i'm not worried too much about reverse siphon, as I have a water check valve attached to my return pump. I really want to avoid the potential of an overflow flood in my living room. If this is the case, plan that the check valve WILL FAIL. I use a 2" CV also but they can often "leak back" thru after some time as stuff builds up inside,on,around, blablabla, the seal area. It's common and if you can not handle all anticipated back flow, YOU WILL have water on the floor soon after locking the front door to go on vacation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluce January 5, 2011 Author Share January 5, 2011 Modified design shown below - I added the suggested 3rd baffle on the fuge side, and slanted / extended the first baffle on the intake / skimmer side. Do you think having the water flow down that first baffle will help with getting rid of the bubbles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowerseller January 5, 2011 Share January 5, 2011 what is your anticipated return TO tank rate or flow thru the sump, including anything dumping water into the sump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluce January 5, 2011 Author Share January 5, 2011 (edited) evaporation should be about 1 gallon / day. I'm using a mag 9.5 for the return - so GPH through the tank is ~ (950 gph for mag 9.5 - resistance) around 900 gph. Is that what your asking for? On a side note: Anyone know where i can get some decent prices on glass for the baffles? I went to ace hardware and they didn't have any. The guy gave me a number for a glass company, but custom glass will cost alot. Edited January 5, 2011 by bluce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatle January 5, 2011 Share January 5, 2011 I have a partially broken 30g tank that you can use for scrap. I could just use a couple pieces of glass cut so I can patch a couple of holes cut in two other tanks. What about having both drains go into the skimmer chamber and having the return on one end? Is there a reason that flow through the fuge needs to be slow or reduced? I used to have a 30g long as a sump/fuge and it was set up this way (difficult to see, I know) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind January 5, 2011 Share January 5, 2011 I like the second diagram better. The sloped baffle will help with the bubbles. Have you called Banner Glass? 5733 Seminary Road, Bailey's Crossroads, VA - (703) 820-1515 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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