LanglandJoshua December 20, 2010 Author Share December 20, 2010 (edited) Keeping a poly-filter like OldReefer mentioned on hand for emergencies is always a good idea. They have saved many a reef tank. Removing a filter sponge can cause an ammonia build-up but only if it has been the main part of the tanks filtration. By removing the sponge you are removing a large surface area that was colonized by bacteria which was getting great flow of constant ammonia to process. Normally a mature tank would have enough bacteria on other surfaces such as rock or sand to avoid an ammonia issue. I know my tank is not yet "mature", so that is why I believe it is the main reason. I do prefer to clean my sponges every couple months. Honestly, it may be the stuborn thing but I really dont want to restart this thing I still have my horseshoe crab and three fish. There is a saying I love, "no cause is lost when there is still one fool left to fight for it". Where can I get the metal removing filters? I want to get on that treatment right away, but first of all WILL THERE BE ANY SIDE EFFECTS?? I have B-ionic and can dose if it does remove anything. But I gotta ask this time...you know why.... Edited December 20, 2010 by LanglandJoshua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind December 20, 2010 Share December 20, 2010 Poly-filters are safe and can be found at most of our local fish stores. If you decide to you use the sponges then you will want to rinse then weekly and not every two months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowieReefer84 December 20, 2010 Share December 20, 2010 +1 to polyfilters. They are expensive, but on small tanks I think they are well worth the cost imo. Even if there is no issue, they are like a backup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldReefer December 20, 2010 Share December 20, 2010 Josh, Marine Scene and Petland have Polyfilters. Bottom line is that you have got to find out if you have metal in your system and then fix it. I happened to spend some time with the famous Dr. Ron Shimek after my disaster and he talked me into dumping my rock and starting over. I used that as an excuse to do an upgrade that flourised until I had to move. There are biological additives available now that I didn't have them. They are just amazing. Ask the guys at Marine Scene. They will probably give you some Proboio Digest. Once you get the metal out, I have 20lbs of Rock in my sump that is filthy with critters. Get that thing going and we will get you some frags. Life wil be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan December 20, 2010 Share December 20, 2010 Sponge in filters tend to cause high nitrate issues. Unless they are replaced or cleaned often they can be a real problem. This is probably why the person at your LFS told you to remove the sponge. Some inverts are intolerant of high nitrates. It doesn't take too many inverts dying off to cause a whole lot of problems in your system. I replace the sponge in mechanical filters with chemi pure elite or I make a refugium with rubble rock and macro. This acts as filtration too. I use sponge and carbon after I QT or when I have serious issues in my system. Then there's the issue of deep sand bed and not changeing water often enough and over feeding and there's a whole lot of things that could have caused your problems. Good circulation and a sufficient amount of live rock also make for good natural filtration. What is rank maintenance schedule like? What are you parameters? what kind of mechanical and or natural filtration do you have? I know my tank is not yet "mature", so that is why I believe it is the main reason. I do prefer to clean my sponges every couple months. Honestly, it may be the stuborn thing but I really dont want to restart this thing I still have my horseshoe crab and three fish. There is a saying I love, "no cause is lost when there is still one fool left to fight for it". Where can I get the metal removing filters? I want to get on that treatment right away, but first of all WILL THERE BE ANY SIDE EFFECTS?? I have B-ionic and can dose if it does remove anything. But I gotta ask this time...you know why.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sen5241b December 21, 2010 Share December 21, 2010 (edited) test for copper ! Also, when I run carbon I get a lot less odors. Edited December 21, 2010 by sen5241b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanglandJoshua December 22, 2010 Author Share December 22, 2010 I will be going to the Marine Scene ASAP, hopefully friday. I will get some carbon to replace the old stuff, and that Polyfilter. I will also look into getting something to test for copper, and other heavy metals. I have something like 47lbs of live rock that I really dont want to part with. Assuming I dont get rid of it what will happen? If I do get rid of it what will the benefit be? Thanks for the advice guys OldReefer how much do you want for the rock and frags(after the heavy metal treatments)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldReefer December 23, 2010 Share December 23, 2010 Josh, The frags are free to people recovering from disasters. Lets see how your copper test looks before we worry about replacing rock. When I had my disaster I sold my rock to a guy doing a fish-only tank. The worry was that it had absorbed some of the metal. I may have been too conservative, but I was starting over with a new tank anyway. I was listening to Dr Ron, and he is a fanatic about metal contamination (he did a lot of research on it. He actually recommended loosing the 90 gallon tank as well, but I held onto it and used it as a really big fuge. It had no trouble raising critters great and small. If you do not have a lot a metal in your tank I would keep the rock you have. Maybe take a water sample with you to Marine Scene and see if they will run the test for you. There is no point buying a test kit for something you will only do once. See what they say about your rock. The concern is that contaminated rock could have an effect on your ability to keep inverts including coral. There is no hard-and-fast rule. Everybody has some level of heavy metal in their tank, it is just a question of how much. Less is known to be better, but there is a lot of debate about how much is too much. Let us know how the recovery goes. Here are some articles on metal contamination http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/10/breeder/ http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2005/11/aafeature1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanglandJoshua December 29, 2010 Author Share December 29, 2010 (edited) Keeping a poly-filter like OldReefer mentioned on hand for emergencies is always a good idea. They have saved many a reef tank. Removing a filter sponge can cause an ammonia build-up but only if it has been the main part of the tanks filtration. By removing the sponge you are removing a large surface area that was colonized by bacteria which was getting great flow of constant ammonia to process. Normally a mature tank would have enough bacteria on other surfaces such as rock or sand to avoid an ammonia issue. I think the problem was my tank is not near mature enough for that. With nowhere near enough live rock or sand. That and my water levels droped so low I blew a heater intended to heat 20 gallons. So, yeah moral of this story...WATCH WATER LEVELS, and double check on specs needed for special modifications to the filtration. Edited December 29, 2010 by LanglandJoshua Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind December 29, 2010 Share December 29, 2010 Why did the water level drop so much? If from evaporation how was the SG levels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanglandJoshua January 11, 2011 Author Share January 11, 2011 Why did the water level drop so much? If from evaporation how was the SG levels? I was busy with other things, and got a bit lazy. The electrical was entirely my fault and as a result I am looking into a good DIY grounding system. I also keep 15 gallons of fresh water on standby to avoid low water levels. As for my tank I added the poly filters and now my mushroom anemone's(some) are expanding. Even some of my Zooanthids are opening back up. I moved them up on a new coral frag rack closer to my light so help them even more. I will check tomorrow afternoon to see the color the pylofilter changed too and will update what it was. Yes I am going to take a sample to the Marine Scene, probably thursday or next week. My amonnia is back to 0, and I purchased 4.5 lb's of rubble rock to add some reefpods. I have sighted a couple, so i know they are there and slowly repopulating in the rubble pile. I have a post in DIY for the new rack here is the link. http://www.wamas.org/forums/topic/41235-custom-frag-shelf/page__gopid__348219 Coral Hind, thanks alot for the offer. I would love a couple frags. Just anything you may not need or want. But you know I will have to find something for you in return. Idk, maybe a fruit basket or something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami January 11, 2011 Share January 11, 2011 Joshua, do you have an auto-topoff installed? If not, it's one of those early upgrades that makes life with a reef tank much easier and could save you from this sort of problem in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami January 11, 2011 Share January 11, 2011 I know my tank is not yet "mature", so that is why I believe it is the main reason. I do prefer to clean my sponges every couple months. Honestly, it may be the stuborn thing but I really dont want to restart this thing I still have my horseshoe crab and three fish. There is a saying I love, "no cause is lost when there is still one fool left to fight for it". Where can I get the metal removing filters? I want to get on that treatment right away, but first of all WILL THERE BE ANY SIDE EFFECTS?? I have B-ionic and can dose if it does remove anything. But I gotta ask this time...you know why.... Mechanical filtration should probably be cleaned once a week, not once every couple of months, if you want to keep your nitrate levels down. Because of their design, they tend to heavily populate with the kind of bacteria that convert ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate, but not those that convert nitrate to nitrogen gas. That can cause a buildup in nitrate that affects coral coloration, growth, and viability. I, too, think that you should remove the mechanical filtration if you intend on growing corals. If you do so, however, try to take a little out at a time, say 25% per week, to allow for your bacteria population to re-establish itself in other areas of the system. If you pull it all out at once, you may wind up with an ammonia spike that causes other issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami January 11, 2011 Share January 11, 2011 I have something like 47lbs of live rock that I really dont want to part with. Assuming I dont get rid of it what will happen? If I do get rid of it what will the benefit be? You may find this thread, on ReefCentral, of interest: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1265702 It's about reconditioning live rock that has been exposed like yours has (to metal contamination). Read through the thread, taking special note of posts #2 and #18. I would test the rock afterwards for leaching of metals (specifically, Copper) or re-cure it in a container with a new polyfilter (to see if metals are coming out of it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocko918 January 11, 2011 Share January 11, 2011 Now I still need to make a grounding rod(I AM NOT PAYIN $30 FOR ONE!). The electrical was entirely my fault and as a result I am looking into a good DIY grounding system. Grounding probes can be found for 15 bucks online. for something like this it is worth the money. grounding probe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanglandJoshua January 15, 2011 Author Share January 15, 2011 I will definately look into those grounding rods online. I will probably end up getting two or three. I just wanted to update this and say that my mushroom anemone's are coming back to their brilliant multicolors and even my zooanthids are comeing back to life and opening up and eating. I moved the rocks with them onto my new frag shelf. I am also feeding with a food that sadly enough I can only remember as the "red candybar" from marine scene. I told them that I wouldnt remember the real name of it...however it is great all my fish love it, my pepermint shrimp go crazy the moment it touches the water. So it seems things are coming back to life. No the anemone's are not nearly as large as they were, but seeing as I thaught they would melt away and die I am very pleased. Even the Zooanthids I counted as a total loss are coming back. It started with one lone little polyp opening a little, and day by day after it ate more and more came to life. Now I have about eight of them so far back to life. There is still plenty of healing for them to do, but its a huge step. These are the signs I was looking for to tell me if there was even a small chance that the tank could come back. I guess this is what any animal hobby is about, learn about the creatures, enjoy their lives, and occassionally be amazed at how strong these little peices of slime really are. Even the live rock rubble I purchased is showing signs of reefpods spreading about my tank. I will keep the updates coming every week or two. I look forward to sending pictures of some very healthy fish, inverts, and coral! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami January 15, 2011 Share January 15, 2011 I think that the ground probe that I have is pretty much just a short length of titanium rod connected to a wire that attaches to the earth-ground of an outlet. If you really wanted to DIY it, you could probably pick up a rod at some local hobby shop like the Hobby Hangar. Ebay, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanglandJoshua January 20, 2011 Author Share January 20, 2011 Yeah, after looking for some good DIY's it all costs more than $20. Im just going to get two of them from the Marine Scene, one for top tank, and one for bottom. I will be taking my water TOMORROW to the Marine Scene, I am going to specifically ask for testing COPPER! I am definately worried about that. That is why I am checking my chemicals, and levels BEFORE I recieve any coral free or otherwise. It would be foolish, stupid, and an insult if I took in something without making sure I could take care of it. Again thanks for all the advice, I did use the poly filter. Im about to clean out my mechanical filtration and see what color it changed. Last I checked they were still white. However about two days after I added them my mushroom anemone's miraculously opened again, same with many of my green zooanthids!! But in the next week or two I have to take them out, because I treat with B-ionic and polyfilters would just pull it all out. If it were not for your help I would have a very smelly, contaminated, and dead tank. You all rock! Now I have returning reefpod populations, colorful growing mushroom anemone's, and ZOOANTHIDS! When they all are open and I clear off the red algae I will add pictures! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanglandJoshua January 22, 2011 Author Share January 22, 2011 Test Results, 4PPM copper(POLYFILTER WITH THE SAVE!), salinity 1.027, Nitrate 4, , Alkalinity 8.7 Over all, not bad seeing as I had ammonia of 1.0 when .25 was the worst I ever experienced even when cycling the tank. I was hoping to catch any chemicals remaining from my disaster so i could know if the tank had cycled past them. IT HAS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanglandJoshua January 22, 2011 Author Share January 22, 2011 I hate to tell you but metal contamination is a bad thing. I lost a mature 90 gallon SPS tank overnight because the plug from power supply feel in the sump and dissolved. I lost a couple thousand dollars worth of coral, so I know your pain. You really need to get on of these today and throw it in the sump... It will tell you if you have metal in the tank and it will start removing it. If you have metal in the tank, at the very least you should do a 100% water change. If you are going for a fish-only system it doesn't matter. but if you want to do coral you have to take metal seriously. As far as the nutrients are concerned, pick up some Microbacter 7 or Probiotim or some other bacterial booster. They do a fantastic job bringing tanks back in line. Sorry for the problems. The hobby gets better. Special thanks to this guy for the polyfilter tip I think it saved my tank! I now have two filters as spares. So should anything happen I am PREPARED FOR HEAVY METALS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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