Testing - Everything good EXCEPT PH . . .

[BowieReefer84]

So I did a COMPLETE test last night. All test kits are brand new or relatively new, and I trust their accuracy.

 

Temp - 80

Salinity - 1.025

Ammonia - 0

Nitrite - 0

Nitrate - 15

Calcium - 480 (decreasing two part to try and lower down to low 400's)

Alk - 10 (adding two part to try to raise up to 12)

Magnesium - 1350 (I was suprised this was soo good, but soo happy)

PH - 7.9

 

 

Opinions PLEAE.

How can I raise my PH without negatively impacting my other perameters??? I am clueless. I really don't want to add that stuff that magically makes your ph 8.3 and no chance of overdose, b/c I want a long term fix.

[scott711]

do a water change. You could test your make up water first to see if the PH is higher. Alk at 10 is fine.

[BowieReefer84]

do a water change. You could test your make up water first to see if the PH is higher. Alk at 10 is fine.

 

Ok, I will do that. I have been doing 3-4 gallon changes weekly (tank is only 29gal). I have never tested my newly mixed water. I just assume it's ok....

 

If the newly mixed tests for low PH what do you recommend?

 

THANKS. ps: food is working great.

[zygote2k]

kalkwasser

[Jon Lazar]

Randy Holmes-Farley has an excellent article on troubleshooting pH in Reefkeeping magazine.

 

He would say your pH is fine. If you wanted to raise it further, it sounds like you either need to improve ventilation in whatever room your tank is in. If that doesn't work, it might be possible to improve aeration in your tank.

 

Jon

[bbyatv]

Ahhh. I have also been dealing with this exact same problem for the past few weeks. After doing a ton of reading, I have found the following.

 

What is driving down the pH is CO2. CO2 is constantly being generated in our tanks as a result of nitrification and de-nitrification.

 

CO2 drives pH down. If in addition you use a calcium reactor you will have a lot of CO2 entering your tank.

 

The way to fix this is to gas off the CO2 and add O2 to you tank.

 

How do you go about this?

 

Add air stones to you sump/refugium (this will break the water tension allowing CO2 to escape and will add O2 to the water)

Ensure the water surface in the display has ripples (this also helps ensure that CO2 can escape from the water)

Add fans over both the display and sump/refugium (they will help CO2 escape)

When you do water changes vacuum the sand (this will reduce the amount of nitrification and de-nitrification occurring in the tank and reduce the amount of CO2 being generated)

Add macro algae to your refugium (macro eats CO2 big time. That

[Coral Hind]

If you wanted to raise it further, it sounds like you either need to improve ventilation in whatever room your tank is in. If that doesn't work, it might be possible to improve aeration in your tank.

 

I agree with Jon that increased air exchange is probably needed, both for the tank and possibly for the house.

 

Have you taken some tank water and allowed it to aerate with an airstone for a few hours and then retest the pH? That will let you know if it is an air exchange issue.

[bbyatv]

Oh ya. Do not forget to make sure your pH probe is calibrated.

 

Bruce

[BowieReefer84]

I agree with Jon that increased air exchange is probably needed, both for the tank and possibly for the house.

 

Have you taken some tank water and allowed it to aerate with an airstone for a few hours and then retest the pH? That will let you know if it is an air exchange issue.

It is most likely going to be an aeration issue. I stopped running my skimmer a while back because the pump got old and stopped working well, and it didn't hurt my tank. Time to get a new pump and take the airline tubing outside (since it's right near a window). I have good surface disruption, but no air really being pumped in....

 

I have a CPR back pak 2 hang on skimmer. How do I know what pump to replace with? I am not sure the flow rate that would work best? If there one that is more quiet than others?

[BowieReefer84]

Oh ya. Do not forget to make sure your pH probe is calibrated.

 

Bruce

I do not have one of those. I have a salifert test kit (which is a pain but accurate I feel).

 

Thanks so much for the advice.

[bbyatv]

Ya, outside air to your skimmer is one I forgot to put on the list above.

 

In your case I think this is the issue. No air being pumped in to the system at all.

 

In my case, I think it is a lack of cleaning the sand. In 2.5 years I have never vacuumed the sand or any portion of it.

 

This weekend when I do my water change, I am going to vacuum some of it.

 

Bruce

 

It is most likely going to be an aeration issue. I stopped running my skimmer a while back because the pump got old and stopped working well, and it didn't hurt my tank. Time to get a new pump and take the airline tubing outside (since it's right near a window). I have good surface disruption, but no air really being pumped in....

 

I have a CPR back pak 2 hang on skimmer. How do I know what pump to replace with? I am not sure the flow rate that would work best? If there one that is more quiet than others?

[BowieReefer84]

Ya, outside air to your skimmer is one I forgot to put on the list above.

 

In your case I think this is the issue. No air being pumped in to the system at all.

 

In my case, I think it is a lack of cleaning the sand. In 2.5 years I have never vacuumed the sand or any portion of it.

 

This weekend when I do my water change, I am going to vacuum some of it.

 

Bruce

 

 

 

 

I am sure you are already planning on doing so, but I would vacume a little at a time. Spread that out over a month or so with water changes. If you vacume all at once it could be worse than low ph . . .Just stating the obvious.

[BowieReefer84]

I am going to add some water in a bucket with a powerhead/air tonight to let it aerate for a few hours, and test every hour or so. This would be an easy fix.

[bbyatv]

Ya, I was worried about sucking up some of the good things that are in the sand. fortunately, I can only get to about 20% of the sand in my tank. The rest is covered with rock and coral. I will clean about half of what I can get at. And clean the other half next week.

 

Thanks for the advice.

 

Bruce

 

I am sure you are already planning on doing so, but I would vacume a little at a time. Spread that out over a month or so with water changes. If you vacume all at once it could be worse than low ph . . .Just stating the obvious.

[Coral Hind]

I am going to add some water in a bucket with a powerhead/air tonight to let it aerate for a few hours, and test every hour or so. This would be an easy fix.

 

If the O2 level in the house is below normal you may still get a lower pH reading. If you could do the same thing but outside or somewhere else with fresh air it would be a better test.

[BowieReefer84]

If the O2 level in the house is below normal you may still get a lower pH reading. If you could do the same thing but outside or somewhere else with fresh air it would be a better test.

Good point. I'll do two tests. One with airline from powerhead outside, and one with airline for powerhead inside.

 

How much time is enough to see a difference in say 1 gallon of water? 2 hours?

[Pete Touhey]

I have a CPR back pak 2 hang on skimmer. How do I know what pump to replace with? I am not sure the flow rate that would work best? If there one that is more quiet than others?

 

I've had a CPR Backpak 2R for years and replace the Rio 6oo RTV every 12-18 months with a new one. The old usually one gets religated to salt mixing till it breaks. The Accela is the current replacement pump that CBP recommends. It's a lot more powerful pump than the Rio 600. I'm still trying to tweak mine to get the thick skimmate I could get with the Rio 600RTV, either pump will do. I think both are available from MArine Depot.

[BowieReefer84]

I've had a CPR Backpak 2R for years and replace the Rio 6oo RTV every 12-18 months with a new one. The old usually one gets religated to salt mixing till it breaks. The Accela is the current replacement pump that CBP recommends. It's a lot more powerful pump than the Rio 600. I'm still trying to tweak mine to get the thick skimmate I could get with the Rio 600RTV, either pump will do. I think both are available from MArine Depot.

 

 

I have the accella pump (came with the + version I bought a couple years back). I think I am going to replace with the rio 600, as I have seen good reviews. Also, the accela pump is loud imo. My pump has never been replaced, and I used to turn my skimmer on and off when I slept as it is in my bedroom (I realize this is not good).

 

I have never been able to get really thick skimate with this skimmer. More of a green water than anything else . . . .

 

How much air are you letting in relatively speaking (a little, medium, full throttle???)

[Pete Touhey]

I have the accella pump (came with the + version I bought a couple years back). I think I am going to replace with the rio 600, as I have seen good reviews. Also, the accela pump is loud imo. My pump has never been replaced, and I used to turn my skimmer on and off when I slept as it is in my bedroom (I realize this is not good).

 

I have never been able to get really thick skimate with this skimmer. More of a green water than anything else . . . .

 

How much air are you letting in relatively speaking (a little, medium, full throttle???)

 

The Accela is noisy as H-E-double hockey sticks, but my tank is in the basement, so it doen't bother me too much. I've only had the Accela on the skimmer for about 2 months, and still get an almost watery green skimmate. I run it almost full open, and have snaked an airstone into the bubble chamber to try and make it more efficient. I've also been using Brightwell's Reef Biofuel in an attempt to get my nitrates down. Both are probably affecting the quality of the skimmate. I've heard biofuel can make your skimmer go gnuts. As long as my water parameters stay good I stick with it a while longer. I've been eyeing the Aqua C Remora Pro as a replacement, but am hemming and hawing about adding a sump, in which case I'd jump to a more powerful in sump model instead.

[BowieReefer84]

The Accela is noisy as H-E-double hockey sticks, but my tank is in the basement, so it doen't bother me too much. I've only had the Accela on the skimmer for about 2 months, and still get an almost watery green skimmate. I run it almost full open, and have snaked an airstone into the bubble chamber to try and make it more efficient. I've also been using Brightwell's Reef Biofuel in an attempt to get my nitrates down. Both are probably affecting the quality of the skimmate. I've heard biofuel can make your skimmer go gnuts. As long as my water parameters stay good I stick with it a while longer. I've been eyeing the Aqua C Remora Pro as a replacement, but am hemming and hawing about adding a sump, in which case I'd jump to a more powerful in sump model instead.

 

Do you use the new outlet setup they have to avoid micro bubbles, or do you use the filter sock (aka bubble trap) at the exit? I saw this

Just wondering what others are doing.

 

I run the sock on the exit pipe...

[Coral Hind]

How much time is enough to see a difference in say 1 gallon of water? 2 hours?

 

I'd say in 2 hours you would see a change if there is going to be one.

[Pete Touhey]

Do you use the new outlet setup they have to avoid micro bubbles, or do you use the filter sock (aka bubble trap) at the exit? I saw this

Just wondering what others are doing.

 

I run the sock on the exit pipe...

 

I've never had a major bubble problem. The original Model Back Pak 2R had a long internal return tube, that forced the water to the bottom of the skimmer before exiting out. So most bubbles escape inside the skimmer before they make it to the bottom of the tube. They do have an external bubble trap that hides pump, but it doesn't fit the Accela pump.

[BowieReefer84]

I had a chance tonight to aerate the water. I put two powerheads with airlines into a gallon of water for two hours. PH tested at 8.2 (inbetween 8.1 and 8.3 on my salifert test kit). I am going to get a rio600 for the skimmer, and run the airline tubing outside (window is only 2 feet from tank). Think this should take me to 8.3 Also, once the skimmer is back up my nitrates should come down from 15 to 0-5 hopefully.

 

Thanks everyone. Never realized not having my skimmer going affected PH in that way...

Edited August 20, 2010 by BowieReefer84

[Pete Touhey]

I had a chance tonight to aerate the water. I put two powerheads with airlines into a gallon of water for two hours. PH tested at 8.2 (inbetween 8.1 and 8.3 on my salifert test kit). I am going to get a rio600 for the skimmer, and run the airline tubing outside (window is only 2 feet from tank). Think this should take me to 8.3 Also, once the skimmer is back up my nitrates should come down from 15 to 0-5 hopefully.

 

Thanks everyone. Never realized not having my skimmer going affected PH in that way...

 

One tip with the Rio 600 RVT. Become religious about cleaning the out little elbows that connect the vinyl tubing for the venturi action. Check them about once a month and clean out the mineral build up, and it will produce good skimmate. As for running the airline tubing out the window, I'm not sure it will provide any more oxygen to your tank, but it will reduce the annoying sucking noise of the Rio

[Coral Hind]

I'm glad you were able to figure out the issue.