DC Switched from Chlorine to Chloramine

[Brian Ward]

The DC aquaduct completed its switch from Chlorine to Chloramine today. So be sure you have fresh chloramine media in your RO unit!

 

http://dcist.com/2010/05/morning_roundup_480.php

[phisigs79]

they did this in PW a few years back and i had old filters and it wiped out my tank

[Brian Ward]

This is part of DC's normal summer cleaning, so no one be too alarmed. DC typically switches from chloramine to chlorine for about a week in the summer. This year the cleaning period lasted an extended period of time.

[Coral Hind]

So be sure you have fresh chloramine media in your RO unit!

 

What media are you using?

[Brian Ward]

The catalytic carbon that AWI sells - it replaces one of the carbon blocks.

[Charlie]

What does Prince George's County use?

[Coral Hind]

What does Prince George's County use?

 

Chlorine.

 

http://www.wssc.dst.md.us/info/2009WaterQReport.pdf

[Brian Ward]

What does Prince George's County use?

 

Check with your water provider. Most localities use Chloramine at least in the summer.

 

For those that don't know, Chloramine is Chlorine with an Ammonia molecule bonded to it. It does a better job of disinfecting the water with lower impact to taste and smell (I believe). However, when water treated with Chloramine is run through an RO unit, the carbon blocks break apart the Chlorine and Ammonia molecules, typically filtering out the Chlorine while leaving at least some of the Ammonia behind. This is obviously bad for our systems.

 

I have no idea why localities switch between the two.

[Origami]

I added a 6th stage to my Typhoon III and run catalytic carbon from BRS behind the sediment filter but before my two carbon blocks for this very reason.

[phisigs79]

Check with your water provider. Most localities use Chloramine at least in the summer.

 

For those that don't know, Chloramine is Chlorine with an Ammonia molecule bonded to it. It does a better job of disinfecting the water with lower impact to taste and smell (I believe). However, when water treated with Chloramine is run through an RO unit, the carbon blocks break apart the Chlorine and Ammonia molecules, typically filtering out the Chlorine while leaving at least some of the Ammonia behind. This is obviously bad for our systems.

 

I have no idea why localities switch between the two.

 

This also does not show on our test kits!

[Origami]

I have no idea why localities switch between the two.

Research back in the 70's and 80's indicated that chlorine reacting with naturally occurring organics resulted in the formation of carcinogenic compounds that, over time, increased the occurrence of some cancers. Some municipalities shift over to chlorine for disinfection after flushing of their systems, after water main failures, or after other failures that result in low pressure or the likelihood of organic contaminants in their distribution pipes.

[Charlie]

Research back in the 70's and 80's indicated that chlorine reacting with naturally occurring organics resulted in the formation of carcinogenic compounds that, over time, increased the occurrence of some cancers. Some municipalities shift over to chlorine for disinfection after flushing of their systems, after water main failures, or after other failures that result in low pressure or the likelihood of organic contaminants in their distribution pipes.

And drinking Ammonia is better? Wow! At least windows won't streak when you wash them.

[Charlie]

http://www.wssc.dst.md.us/info/2009WaterQReport.pdf

Darn, kind of disturbing to actually look at what's in "Drinking" water. Makes me glad that I drink beer instead.

Seriously, I just ordered a RO/DI system (no more runs to the LFS for water, which always costs more than the cost of the water), is there a special cartridge that I should be using?

[Brian Ward]

Darn, kind of disturbing to actually look at what's in "Drinking" water. Makes me glad that I drink beer instead.

Seriously, I just ordered a RO/DI system (no more runs to the LFS for water, which always costs more than the cost of the water), is there a special cartridge that I should be using?

 

Typically you want a catalytic carbon stage in your system. The major vendors will swap this out for you before they ship it (AWI included) if you ask. Otherwise, you'll need to order a catalytic carbon cartridge and replace (I believe) your (either) 5 or 10 micron carbon filter with the catalytic carbon cartridge.

[Origami]

I recommend that if you install a catalytic carbon stage, that you do so before (that is, upstream of) at least one carbon block stage to remove any residual carbon fines from the stream so that it does not foul your RO membrane.

[Brian Ward]

I recommend that if you install a catalytic carbon stage, that you do so before (that is, upstream of) at least one carbon block stage to remove any residual carbon fines from the stream so that it does not foul your RO membrane.

 

In the case of an AWI unit, you will replace the 5 micron carbon block with the catalytic carbon. This leaves the 1 micron carbon block for the water to pass through prior to the RO membrane.

[johnnybv]

Check with your water provider. Most localities use Chloramine at least in the summer.

 

For those that don't know, Chloramine is Chlorine with an Ammonia molecule bonded to it. It does a better job of disinfecting the water with lower impact to taste and smell (I believe). However, when water treated with Chloramine is run through an RO unit, the carbon blocks break apart the Chlorine and Ammonia molecules, typically filtering out the Chlorine while leaving at least some of the Ammonia behind. This is obviously bad for our systems.

 

I have no idea why localities switch between the two.

 

Another reason to bind with the ammonia molecule is to keep it in the water longer. With just cholrine you can just let it sit for 24 hours and with some aeration the cholorine will be gone, hence the reason our ro containers get nasty with ro/di water sitting in them there is nothing to kill the nasties. it takes over a week for the cholorine to gas off in the form of cholamine, just make sure you have fresh fiters in your units and you should be fine, and I mean all of them.....

John

[CHUBAKAH]

Wouldn't be a bad idea to make this one a sticky IMHO.

[gmubeach]

hmmmm chlroine is a gas chloramine is a liquid we use it at my plant.. chlorine gas is extremly bad..atleast until its mixed... I'm very confused about this debate.. I run a 5 stage system I have 3 filters in it and 2 resin filters. I was wondering. IF your not growing sps would this still affect you a little amonia won't kill fish or hardier corals will it?

[Brian Ward]

If there is just a little ammonia, (I believe) it will ultimately be consumed by the bacteria in your tank and converted to NO3. You may or may not (probably not) have enough bacteria in your tank to readily consume a sudden influx of ammonia. Ammonia, will hurt your fish because any free ammonia burns their gills. If the ammonia remains in the tank, it will also hurt your corals, but because it doesn't show up on our test kits, it's very difficult to determine the concentrations that it exists in. I'm not sure what concentration is necessary to begin to kill the corals, but I don't think it takes much.

[Origami]

hmmmm chlroine is a gas chloramine is a liquid we use it at my plant.. chlorine gas is extremly bad..atleast until its mixed... I'm very confused about this debate.. I run a 5 stage system I have 3 filters in it and 2 resin filters. I was wondering. IF your not growing sps would this still affect you a little amonia won't kill fish or hardier corals will it?

 

Chlorine in aqueous form is typically ionic and in the form of a hypochlorite.

 

(Understatedly) chlorine gas is very hard on the lungs and on a lot of other things, too. Sometime, if interested, I'll tell you of the accident I had in my second year chem class back in high-school where, while measuring the atomic weight of chlorine gas, the containment canister failed, leaving gas leaking into the building (which had to be evacuated). Ah, the memories....

 

Chloramines are harder to pick up than chlorine (hypochlorite) ions in regular carbon block (they pick up some, but less, leaving them to expose the membrane stage). The chloramines then go on to damage the RO membrane. This of course, leads to an ineffective RO/DI process and bad water for your tank. That's the reason we want to take up chloramines before they get to the RO membrane.

[cabrego]

It seems like there should be documentation about this issue on vendor's websites selling RODI units. This is the first time I have really noticed a possible new requirement for filtering my water. I thought the 5 standard stages were sufficient in all cases. Why don't the catalytic carbon blocks come standard?

[Brian Ward]

I'm not sure why it's not documented better. Another big vendor is The Filter Guys (sponsor over on RC) and they have a page dedicated to Chloramines. According to that page, 30% of municipalities are using Chloramines, so I guess it's not super widespread yet, but it has increased significantly in the last few years.

 

http://www.thefilterguys.biz/chloramine_filters.htm

[cabrego]

I'm not sure why it's not documented better. Another big vendor is The Filter Guys (sponsor over on RC) and they have a page dedicated to Chloramines. According to that page, 30% of municipalities are using Chloramines, so I guess it's not super widespread yet, but it has increased significantly in the last few years.

 

http://www.thefilterguys.biz/chloramine_filters.htm

 

 

thanks for the info, i will have to look into what springfield is using...

[Origami]

Also be aware that many municipalities switch between the two over the course of the year depending upon their maintenance schedule. It's not that they use one or the other.

 

For example, here's an announcement that's made annually by Loudoun Water:

 

"Ashburn, VA.