Why I do not like stealth heaters

[extreme_tooth_decay]

For me, a big problem this hobby has is misinformation. Often people in this hobby go by what they heard second or third hand, where there seems to be no strong evidence of truth. I have a suspicion that stealth vs ebo jager heaters is one of these cases.

 

There is some talk that quality dropped at Jager some time ago when it was taken over by eheim. This seems to have lead people to buy stealths. I could never recall a first hand story of a jager failure, but have heard many about stealths, so I thought I would do the following not-very-scientific experiment:

 

Idea: Search WAMAS threads from 2009 for Ebo Jager and Stealth heater problems.

 

This is what I found (I might of missed something, but the results seem pretty clear):

 

STEALTH HEATERS (2009 WAMAS threads):

Dec 11: phisigs79 "got a huge shock" LINK

Nov 9: DJBoy98 had an embedded post about "got a shock in the water" LINK

Nov 9: CHUBAKAH "used to be a Stealth guy but had two go bad the last year" LINK

Oct 30: Sikryd "broken stealth stuck on" LINK

Oct 6: ttlee858 "There was a malfunction to my heater" LINK

Jan 11: sheac12 "Stray current in fish tank, shocked, not a good way" LINK

Jan 5: fosterspike "noticed a slight shock in the water" LINK

 

(For anyone that thinks stealths are unbreakable....Kevin Garrison: "Well, I got to find out today that stealth heaters are NOT unbreakable" LINK)

 

 

EBO JAGER HEATERS (2009 WAMAS threads):

 

I could not find a single thread in which anyone was talking about the failure of an EJ heater, or one breaking/shattering (not saying they aren't there, but I looked and couldn't find any). What I am positive of is there are many more stealth failure stories than EJ.

 

Even if quality control has dropped off at EJ, it seems obvious to me that they are still enormously better than stealths, (which are not unbreakable). I use them in my mantis shrimp tanks, and every single tank I have ever owned for that matter.

 

Of course, every single single stealth will not fail. There will be plenty of people that have used them successfully. But, it seems to me that first-hand stories of their failure greatly outweigh those of EJ.

Edited December 15, 2009 by extreme_tooth_decay

[Origami]

What's REALLY sad in my opinion is that EJ heaters, once very highly regarded, have reportedly slipped backward in their quality control. It remains to be seen, however, just how far back they have fallen. (There just hasn't been enough time to really know how the heaters, now available in the market, will perform over the long run.) This leaves hobbyists with even less information on reliability and safety, and fewer discriminators upon which to base our choice. Given that the track record of the new EJ heaters is comparatively short, their current market success is probably in part due to their past reputation.

 

I've run at least one small (original) EJ heater (1 year), several (4) stealths (2 at 3 years, 2 at 1 year), 2 Via Aqua titaniums (2 years), and a MarineLand glass heater. Except for the MarineLand heater which cracked, all have performed safely. (Note: I use an external temperature controller, so this is not an evaluation of their accuracy or long-term stability.)

 

Thinking now as an engineer...

 

With heater design being relatively simple (neglecting thermostat design), the primary failure mechanism leading to hazardous (re: human threat) conditions is a breakdown of the casing or the (potting) material used to seal the heater envelope at the point where the electrical cord enters the heater body. I suspect that, with the repeated expansion and contraction that comes with the resistive heating elements being turned on and then off, that the casing, and the joint between the potting material and the heater casing is subject to stress cycling. From the manufacturer's viewpoint, material selection, compatibility and use, and quality control are therefore key to producing a safe heater. Our responsibility as hobbyists is to use the heater correctly. This includes using the appropriate wattage for the tank size and proper heater placement (properly submerged and not subject to crushing or bending). I think that Boret, in your other thread, posted a link to an article written by RC's BeanAnimal. In that article, he goes on to suggest that the top of any heater (where the power cord enters) should NEVER be submerged, irrespective of manufacturer statements labeling the heater as submersible. In making this suggestion, BeanAnimal is limiting the possible failure modes by removing the effect of a breakdown of the potting material or the joint between the potting material and the casing. The Hydor ETH heater design does the same thing, by redesigning the casing so the water runs up the middle of the heating elements and keeping the power entry on the outside of the tubular design keeping it away from water.

 

Even with all this, heaters still seem to be one of the weakest points in our setups despite being amongst the simplest components.

[steveoutlaw]

Given the information about keeping the top part of the heater above the waterline, you have to look at suction cups as another big point of failure. I don't know of any heater holders that will hang on the rim of a tank. I think I may just glue one of the plasting heater holders to one of the magnetic frag plugs. This seems like it would let me keep the top of the heater out of the water and allow more water to be circulated around the heater than keeping it right on the glass.

[Coral Hind]

Tom, I agree with the EJ comments. I bought one two years ago and it had about a 5 degree differential straight out of the box, after a few months it just stayed on and never shut off. I currently use it with a Ranco.

 

I think the Rainbow Lifeguard Heater Module would make the current heaters on the market a lot safer. It would protect against the water seal issue and protect the glass some from breakage.

[Sikryd]

Somebody ought to try and set up a group buy on the EJ if possible.

 

(I'm flying to Southern then Northern Cali tomorrow for 2 weeks to visit family, otherwise I would look into it)

[extreme_tooth_decay]

You make many good points, as usual Tom.

 

 

What's REALLY sad in my opinion is that EJ heaters, once very highly regarded, have reportedly slipped backward in their quality control.

 

The key word is "reportedly". If true, it is indeed very sad. Unfortunately, many things in this hobby are "reported" which just don't turn out to be true IMO. I'm still waiting to see the money...and it seems like we have been waiting a long time. When will it be long enough?

 

 

It remains to be seen, however, just how far back they have fallen. (There just hasn't been enough time to really know how the heaters, now available in the market, will perform over the long run.)

 

Do we know when the quality control supposedly decreased? It seems like it has been quite a long time to me. Many stealth failures involve relatively new heaters (new enough that if they had bought an EJ instead, it would have certainly have been an eheim model). I would think that enough time has passed if the eheim takeover was, say, 4 or 5 years ago.

 

I don't when they started making stealth heaters, but is it possible most of them were manufactured after the eheim-jager takeover? If so, most people who bought a new stealth would have been buying a new eheim-jager (under the new QC), so one would expect equal numbers of failures if they were equal in quality control.

 

 

 

Even with all this, heaters still seem to be one of the weakest points in our setups despite being amongst the simplest components.

 

Indeed we hear that kind of thing often. However, not being able to find substantial EJ trouble reports, I wonder how much this kind of statement is based on people buying non-EJ heaters and having problems like above.

[extreme_tooth_decay]

Here is an interesting video showing EJ non-shatterability:

 

[extreme_tooth_decay]

Given the information about keeping the top part of the heater above the waterline, you have to look at suction cups as another big point of failure. I don't know of any heater holders that will hang on the rim of a tank. I think I may just glue one of the plasting heater holders to one of the magnetic frag plugs. This seems like it would let me keep the top of the heater out of the water and allow more water to be circulated around the heater than keeping it right on the glass.

 

I was able to use the plastic spacer that came in the box with mine to wedge mine between my baffles, and keep the top above the water. I agree that suction cups cannot be trusted.

[Happyfeet]

I'd like to point out that if...

There is some talk that quality dropped at Jager some time ago when it was taken over by eheim. This seems to have lead people to buy stealths.

Then doing a search on the forum for problems is flawed because It requires there to be an equal number of people to own and operate both. If there are 50 Stealth heaters in the club and only 5 EJ. Odds are a problem will arise in the stealths due to quantity present not quality.

 

That being said I've used the same heater now for 10 years with no problem and its not an EJ or a Stealth.

[Jon Lazar]

I was able to use the plastic spacer that came in the box with mine to wedge mine between my baffles, and keep the top above the water. I agree that suction cups cannot be trusted.

 

Great post Tim.

 

I don't like suction cups either, but when I need to use them I adhere them in place with aquarium silicone. I figure if it's good enough to hold people's rimless tanks together, it's good enough to hold my suction cup in place.

[droyal1110]

I too am worried about my stealth heater and I plan on switching it out. Granted I'm sure its fine, I'll just retire it to my water change bucket to heat up the water when mixing, but no livestock or myself really at risk so long as its unplugged before I touch the water.

 

Yes, everyone knows suction cups suck... thats why you need these mag clips. They work great, I use them with my thermometer and heater, sure its a little pricey since that is for 1 magnet, however its worth it to me.

[extreme_tooth_decay]

I'd like to point out that if...

Then doing a search on the forum for problems is flawed because It requires there to be an equal number of people to own and operate both. If there are 50 Stealth heaters in the club and only 5 EJ. Odds are a problem will arise in the stealths due to quantity present not quality.

 

 

I did say it was not-so-scientific. But, doing a google search raised the same massive disproportion of stealth failures vs EJ.

 

And, having had this conversation with many people over the years, I know EJ are widely used in the club.

 

The claims about QC probably only account for a small overall number of stealth buyers.

[steveoutlaw]

Still, if the main failure point with the stealths is the seal degrading due to being in the water, it seems that keeping the seal above the waterline would take that out of the equation and greatly reduce the failures of the stealths.

[Boret]

I have a bunch of plastic clamps I bought from Home Depot and I use them all over the place to secure tubes, probes and the heaters.

I just clamp the cable to the wall of the sump with the plastic clamp to keep the top of the the heater above the water.

I use this type of clamp:

 

[extreme_tooth_decay]

Still, if the main failure point with the stealths is the seal degrading due to being in the water, it seems that keeping the seal above the waterline would take that out of the equation and greatly reduce the failures of the stealths.

 

 

A wise strategy for any heater.

 

For me personally, I'd rather buy a different/better heater and still keep it above water (double protection).

Edited December 15, 2009 by extreme_tooth_decay

[Happyfeet]

I did say it was not-so-scientific. But, doing a google search raised the same massive disproportion of stealth failures vs EJ.

 

And, having had this conversation with many people over the years, I know EJ are widely used in the club.

 

The claims about QC probably only account for a small overall number of stealth buyers.

 

Didn't mean to rag on you, just thought I'd point that out. (I too have heard a lot of bad about stealth).

[Origami]

The key word is "reportedly". If true, it is indeed very sad. Unfortunately, many things in this hobby are "reported" which just don't turn out to be true IMO. I'm still waiting to see the money...and it seems like we have been waiting a long time. When will it be long enough?

 

"Reportedly" carries the same significance as the posts you've researched on the WAMAS forums. They're the same type of reports from hobbyists. Keep in mind that if a product has a large market share, it will have a larger number of reports than one with a smaller market share given the same failure rate. Thus, if EJ has a smaller market share than Marineland Stealth's, it may mean little to compare the raw numbers of reports. You also have to understand the base of installed equipment to determine a failure rate. Both heaters seem popular and I see a lot of recommendations for each if you look around. The same holds for Hydor, Visi-therm, etc.

 

Every heater will have its failures and reports of failures. Here's a sampling of reports from the web about the newer Eheim-Jagers. You find a lot of people comparing them to the performance of their older Ebo Jager heaters. I don't find anybody saying the new heaters are better than the old, though. Here's a sampling:

 

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qi...16193155AAyle2g

 

"Has anyone had any problems with these new heaters. I know th ebo jagers were really nice, but the eheim jager, in my opinion suck. I just bought, by reccomendation of my LFS and the knob that you pull up to adjust the temp, is impossible to pull with out prying with a butter knife. The heater will not stop heating up? What is wrong?"

 

"Eheim Jager is no Ebo Jager. I'd avoid them because all I've heard are complaints. I only bought one and died quickly. My old Hagen Visa-Therm submersible lasted 16 years until I broke it, my fault. I don't know any really good heaters out there right now. A lot of people seem to like the Marineland metal/ceramic submersible that's out though I have not personally tried it."

 

"I had the same problem with a eheim jager 150watt heater. I returned it and got a replacement with the same result. "

 

From RC:

"I had a tank fry because a jager heater didn't turn off like it was supposed to..."

 

"My confidence in Jager has gone WAY down. Of the two I purchased for my 180, one leaked current and the other's thermostat is completely bonked (I run on an AC3 though).... Unfortunatley I've had no better luck with stealth heaters. IMO there is a huge need for a high quality heater."

 

"I imported discus for two years and used 8 new model Jaeger heaters on 8 of the 14 seventy-five gallon tanks in my holding system. 4 of the 8 heaters FAILED, and they were all the new models, purchased after Ebo-Jaeger was purchased by Eheim.... A 50% failure rate was unheard of with Ebo-Jaeger heaters prior to the Eheim purchase. Ebo-Jaeger heaters seldom failed before the company was purchased by Eheim and they were remade as Jaeger. I have Eheim canister filters that I have used for 18 years without a failure, but the quiality of the Eheim made Jaeger heaters are nothing compared to the old Ebo-Jaeger heater. "

 

From nano-reef.com:

"I bought a new 100 w Jager for my 20 gallon tank ~ 2 months ago based on good reviews It has kept a rock solid 78 F since I bought it. This morning I notice the heater was on which was odd but a window was left open. Tonight the tank is 90 + so I whipped the Jager out. Strange it worked well for 2 months with no need to readjust it, and there is no one else in the house to play with it."

 

One interesting thing to note about these reports about EJ heaters is they're all thermostat failures. Thermostat failures won't in and of themselves shock you (but they may still kill your tank), but they might cause a secondary case failure which could. Use a reliable external temperature controller and the risk is mitigated.

 

Do we know when the quality control supposedly decreased? It seems like it has been quite a long time to me. Many stealth failures involve relatively new heaters (new enough that if they had bought an EJ instead, it would have certainly have been an eheim model). I would think that enough time has passed if the eheim takeover was, say, 4 or 5 years ago.

 

No. When trying to determine a timeframe for the acquisition of Ebo Jager by Eheim, I came across this post dated in March 2006. So it goes back to at least then. It's been 3-1/2 years at least. Certainly long enough to establish a track record and even to make design improvements in response to complaints. Real data, however, is lacking. For obvious reasons, each company would keep this sort of data proprietary. So, unless there's a controlled experiment on the longetivity and reliability of heaters, we're forced to rely on anecdotal reports from hobbyists. Even then, companies can, if they're smart, evolve their products to fix deficiences and to penetrate the market even further.

 

I don't when they started making stealth heaters, but is it possible most of them were manufactured after the eheim-jager takeover? If so, most people who bought a new stealth would have been buying a new eheim-jager (under the new QC), so one would expect equal numbers of failures if they were equal in quality control.

 

I don't now when stealth heaters first hit the market. A cursory search of web posts seems to indicate it was in the 2003-4 timeframe. To expect the same number of failures for the same failure rate, you would have to have the same number in service - that is, the same market penetration and sales. I don't know if that's the case.

 

BeanAnimal's article makes some solid suggestions. It recognizes that the two most common failures seen are 1) a failed thermostat and 2) leaking voltage / case. To mitigate the risk of these failures he recommends 1) using a reliable external thermostatic controller and 2) keeping the voltage point-of-entry dry. Take care of these two things and he says most any heater will do the job because, fundamentally, the business end of the heater design (like a blow dryer) is nothing more than a coil of resistive wire against which voltage is applied.

[Origami]

Tom, I agree with the EJ comments. I bought one two years ago and it had about a 5 degree differential straight out of the box, after a few months it just stayed on and never shut off. I currently use it with a Ranco.

 

I think the Rainbow Lifeguard Heater Module would make the current heaters on the market a lot safer. It would protect against the water seal issue and protect the glass some from breakage.

 

I used a Ranco until about a year ago when I switched over to using my AC-III to control my temperature. I picked up a new dual-stage Ranco though this weekend from another member with the intent to go back to using it for temperature control rather than the AC-III. Perceived reliability of the AC-III temperature probe is the reason for the switch.

 

I've never looked at the Rainbow Lifegard Heater Module. I just looked it up. Interesting design concept. One could even have a DIY implementation that worked similarly. I think there are other concepts that could also be used to keep the top of a heater dry. For example, a closed cell foam collar would allow you to float the top of a heater, keeping it above the water line. In BeanAnimal's case, I think he uses some kind of DIY probe holder that involves a bulkhead fitting and a compression gland that enters the side of his sump. Details of his implementation are here: http://beananimal.com/articles/aquarium-he...-know!.aspx

 

Bean's a very smart, but also sometimes a highly opinionated, individual. His analyses are definitely worth reading, always.

[Boret]

I use the PX1000 expansion on the ACIII and 2 temp probes for redundancy. One messures temp in the Display Tank and the other in the Frag tank. I have code in the ACII program to send me an email if the difference between the temp on both probes goes beyond 0.6 degrees. I already had a Temp probe fail in the ACIII.

 

Also, it is a good practice to turn off devices on extremes. For example, you might have a regular program in your ACIII to turn ON the heater at 77F and OFF and 78F. You should also have a line of code that turns OFF the heater IF Temp < 72F. I know... am I crazy or what!!??

The reason behind this is that if you are getting a reading of 72F chances are your temp probe is malfunctioning and therefore your tank might be at a much higher temperature because you are turning the heater. You should have alarms setup for low temperatures, but beyond certain temperature your program should start turning heaters off.

 

As an added backup I have the thermostat of the heater itself a degree above the desired temperature.

 

I also provide a margin between the on and off operation. So Turn ON at 77.5 and OFF at 77.8 giving 0.3 F degrees of margin, instead of ON at 77.7 and OFF at 77.8.

[extreme_tooth_decay]

"Reportedly" carries the same significance as the posts you've researched on the WAMAS forums. They're the same type of reports from hobbyists.

 

We were talking about different "reportedly"s I was talking about the report I've heard a few times about a discussion between some EHEIM/EBO execs, not hobbyist's experiences.

 

 

 

Keep in mind that if a product has a large market share, it will have a larger number of reports than one with a smaller market share given the same failure rate. Thus, if EJ has a smaller market share than Marineland Stealth's, it may mean little to compare the raw numbers of reports.

 

Right. I wonder if we could get that information somehow. I doubt that stealths have a 5-10:1 market share over EJ, which is my very rough estimate of the complaint level I have read. It seems that there are hugely more complaints about stealths than EJ than can reasonably be explained by market share. I'm not sure stealth has EJ out-marketed at all,let alone by a large factor.

 

 

 

 

 

From RC:

 

From nano-reef.com:

 

Any gut-feel what the tonnage of stealth vs EJ complaints were on those sites?

 

 

 

When trying to determine a timeframe for the acquisition of Ebo Jager by Eheim, I came across this post dated in March 2006. So it goes back to at least then. It's been 3-1/2 years at least. Certainly long enough to establish a track record and even to make design improvements in response to complaints.

 

I don't now when stealth heaters first hit the market. A cursory search of web posts seems to indicate it was in the 2003-4 timeframe.

 

 

Hm, I agree that this is quite a long time that the "new" EJ and stealth have been side by side for sale. It seems if the QC of the EJ really had gone so far downhill, there would be much more reports about them failing than there are. The stealths have so many more reports of problems (that I have seen here and on google), they would need to have EJ out-marketed by a minimum of 5:1, maybe more like 10:1. I don't believe they do. I'm not even sure I'd buy 2:1. (Do we even know they have EJ out-marketed at all?) As you mentioned, data is hard to come by.

 

Of course, there were undoubtedly complaints about EJ heaters before the acquisition by eheim as well, which would need to be filtered out of the current complaints to find out if there is any spike in complaints after acquisition by eheim. And, the complaints would need to be normalized by how many more total people are in the hobby now than then. Maybe if we were able to process these variables, we would find that complaints about EJ are smaller now than they were before the eheim takeover. Who knows.

[Origami]

I wonder if we could get that information somehow. I doubt that stealths have a 5-10:1 market share over EJ, which is my very rough estimate of the complaint level I have read. It seems that there are hugely more complaints about stealths than EJ than can reasonably be explained by market share. I'm not sure stealth has EJ out-marketed at all,let alone by a large factor.

 

 

Any gut-feel what the tonnage of stealth vs EJ complaints were on those sites?

 

Hm, I agree that this is quite a long time that the "new" EJ and stealth have been side by side for sale. It seems if the QC of the EJ really had gone so far downhill, there would be much more reports about them failing than there are. The stealths have so many more reports of problems (that I have seen here and on google), they would need to have EJ out-marketed by a minimum of 5:1, maybe more like 10:1. I don't believe they do. I'm not even sure I'd buy 2:1. (Do we even know they have EJ out-marketed at all?) As you mentioned, data is hard to come by.

 

Of course, there were undoubtedly complaints about EJ heaters before the acquisition by eheim as well, which would need to be filtered out of the current complaints to find out if there is any spike in complaints after acquisition by eheim. And, the complaints would need to be normalized by how many more total people are in the hobby now than then. Maybe if we were able to process these variables, we would find that complaints about EJ are smaller now than they were before the eheim takeover. Who knows.

 

I don't know how we could get the information. It's possible, if somebody had an inside contact at some very large, national vendor like Marine Depot or PetSmart, to get some sales statistics for here in the US. Get enough data points like that and you could probably come up with a statistical estimate of current sales. Unfortunately, one needs to have an understanding of the installed base of heaters - the number that are out there as well as their age. I couldn't tell you if the ratio is 1:1, 1:5, or even 1:10. If a lot of hobbyists went over to Stealth heaters when their new Eheim-Jager heaters were failing (or when they got wind of somebody else's heater failing), then the average age of Stealth heaters may be older than the average age of the newer generation of EJ heaters.

 

I think, while you'll find complaints for both, you'll also find many recommendations for both. No heater is meant to live forever, but when it dies, it shouldn't take you or your livestock with it!

 

The point about the Eheim-Jager being inferior to the Ebo-Jager heaters has been the topic of discussion on many boards. It's hard for me to say if EJ has improved the design or even if Marineland has improved the design of their Stealth heaters since they're release. It's a competitive world out there - no vendor should sit on their backside and allow the competition to cut in on their market share. Continuous product improvement should be part of any product's lifecycle. Maybe I'm naive about this, but I'm hoping that both Marineland and Eheim are large enough, and savvy enough about product development and market maintenance to understand this.

 

I think where I am on this question is not so much trying to understand which heater design is, on its own, better, but trying to understand what the flaws are and how we can mitigate the risks of each so that we have both safety and reliability. It's an application of the Pareto principle - 80% of the effects (in this case, failures) come from 20% of the causes. Applied to this question, if most of the failures of heaters come from thermostats, followed by envelope failures, then addressing these two failure modes can substantially increase the system reliability much more so than simply switching heater brands.

[extreme_tooth_decay]

I don't know how we could get the information. It's possible, if somebody had an inside contact at some very large, national vendor like Marine Depot or PetSmart, to get some sales statistics for here in the US. Get enough data points like that and you could probably come up with a statistical estimate of current sales. Unfortunately, one needs to have an understanding of the installed base of heaters - the number that are out there as well as their age.

 

I agree. Also, we'd really need to know the number that are currently working!

 

It could be that Marine Depot sold one guy 10 stealths, because 9 of them broke, and he now has one in service, and they sold another guy 1 EJ that worked. Could be part of stealth's marketing campaign to sell more heaters

 

I think, while you'll find complaints for both, you'll also find many recommendations for both.

 

No doubt. Unfortunately, I'm not sure there are valid reasons behind the recommendations, which is what I am most interested in.

 

 

The point about the Eheim-Jager being inferior to the Ebo-Jager heaters has been the topic of discussion on many boards. It's hard for me to say if EJ has improved the design or even if Marineland has improved the design of their Stealth heaters since they're release. It's a competitive world out there - no vendor should sit on their backside and allow the competition to cut in on their market share. Continuous product improvement should be part of any product's lifecycle. Maybe I'm naive about this, but I'm hoping that both Marineland and Eheim are large enough, and savvy enough about product development and market maintenance to understand this.

 

 

Totally agree. Although for me, whether Eheim-Jager is inferior to Ebo-Jager isn't the real question, since Ebo-Jager aren't available...the question is regarding Eheim-Jager and Stealth. It seems to me there is sufficient "reported" evidence over the last few years to suggest that Eheim-Jager is substantially better.

 

 

I think where I am on this question is not so much trying to understand which heater design is, on its own, better, but trying to understand what the flaws are and how we can mitigate the risks of each so that we have both safety and reliability. It's an application of the Pareto principle - 80% of the effects (in this case, failures) come from 20% of the causes. Applied to this question, if most of the failures of heaters come from thermostats, followed by envelope failures, then addressing these two failure modes can substantially increase the system reliability much more so than simply switching heater brands.

 

 

That is certainly one way to go about things, and I agree that addressing the typical failure points gets you most of the way home.

 

But, it seems to me the best thing to do is to further increase the reliability by starting with a better heater (or else why not buy a WON heater?).

 

For me, I prefer to start with a heater with a better design and then apply the Pareto principle...ie, apply the principle twice: 80% of problems are with stealths, so don't get a stealth. Then 80% of what is left is with thermostats, so....etc.

 

Good chatting with you, this has been pretty interesting.

[bluefunelement]

I can say I just had an EJ heat up out of water to crazy high temps and after just about burning myself I let it cool off before throwing back in the tank - I don't think I would have thrown it in despite the video showing otherwise.

[reefhunter]

I just had my heater in my TECO chiller go out and am running my finnex titanium off my acIII now... I was really happy not relying on my acIII before but that failed me...

 

heaters suck...

 

anyone know of finnex failing?

[Coral Hind]

I just had my heater in my TECO chiller go out and am running my finnex titanium off my acIII now... I was really happy not relying on my acIII before but that failed me...

 

heaters suck...

 

anyone know of finnex failing?

 

Like with any product there are always bad experiences posted on the internet. What size do you have? It does appear that the 500w version is prone to more failures. I would never use a heater with out a seperate controller.

 

 

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.p...mp;pagenumber=1

http://www.thereeftank.com/forums/f197/fin...ters-98609.html