Jan September 14, 2009 Share September 14, 2009 (edited) I've been noticing little clusters of bubbles here and there on the corners of the glass, some corals, rocks and the power heads. I've been blowing them off with a turkey baster along with detritus on my rocks. I finally decided to check all parameters and everything is really good except phosphates are >1. so I suspect that these clusters of bubbles are the begining of algal blooms. I've done a 10% water change and lowered the photo period. I've cut back on feedings to once every other day. What else can I do to stop an algal bloom? How often do you feed your livestock? i've got a mix of sun corals, dendros and fish that absolutely must eat, but how often? I was feeding the fish everyday, sometimes twice a day. The corals that need to be fed are fed every other day. I feed oyster eggs or mysis or cyclopeeze of Robs food. i don't give them all of this at one time. Am I still feeding too much? I have an ASM G1 skimmer that seems to be working very well. The skimmate is very dark. I have to empty the cup every other day. I also use 2 units of chemi pure elite in the sump. I have a reactor but haven't hooked it up yet. Not sure what to use it for. Maybe i need to use it for phosphate? Tell me what you think. Any advice and constructive input is always greatly appreciated. Thank you. specs and params are 75 gallon aga RR w/20 gallon sump 300 wats of 14K MH = 5-6 hours per day 204Watts actinic blue plus T5 = 10 hours per day I've lowered these times by about 2 hours each Ammonia 0 PH 8.4 Mag 1500 (keeping it high becaseu of bryopsis, even though it's gone now) Dkh 11 Nitrates 0 Nitrites 0 Calcium 500 Phosphate >1 SG 1.025 I dose b ionic part 1 and 2, Kent M tech and 3 drops of lugols with every water change J Edited September 14, 2009 by Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davjbeas September 14, 2009 Share September 14, 2009 Jan, Granular ferric oxide (GFO) will bring the phosphate levels down. If you have a media reactor you can run it in that, however depending on your tank size you will need to decide how much to use. You should start with a smaller amount in the beginning. This is because GFO strips the water and there will be more light penetration which can cause SPS to turn white and die from shock. I started with 1/2 cup when I started using GFO on my 75 gallon tank. Then after about a month up to 1 cup. I find the kent marine model of phos reactor is my choice. I used a MJ400 to feed the reactor but with a ball valve to adjust the flow so the media gently tumbles from the flow. After starting the prodibio system I no longer need to use the phosban reactor. You don't need to change the GFO often. about once a month is good. Rinse the GFO well. I rinsed mine and then ran the reactor in a bowl in the sink with RO water until it was clear then put it on the sump. One of our sponsers sells the pellet grade or bulk reef supply has it also. Get the lager pellet size as the smaller grade can pass through the sponges in the reactor. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k September 14, 2009 Share September 14, 2009 simple solution- Get a HOB fuge. Macros will use all available N03 and P04. Get a good P04 test kit that reads to 0.01 ppm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan September 14, 2009 Author Share September 14, 2009 (edited) Oh, thanks for reminding me....I have a medium size CPR HOB refugium with 5 different kinds of macro. It's been on the tank for about 1.5 months now. simple solution- Get a HOB fuge. Macros will use all available N03 and P04. Get a good P04 test kit that reads to 0.01 ppm. Edited September 14, 2009 by Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grav September 16, 2009 Share September 16, 2009 We have found that 1/2 cup of GFO will remove about 0.3 ppm of PO4 from 100g of tank water. When used in a low flow reactor as david describes, the media will do its job in < 48 hrs. I also find that macro can remove all the Nitrate, but still leave phosphate behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer99 September 16, 2009 Share September 16, 2009 Jan, are you sure the clusters of bubbles are algae? I only ask because IME bubble algae (or the ones that will turn into nuisance algae, like Bryopsis) are hard to dislocate with a turkey baster. Could they just be oxygen bubbles? If they are indeed algae, you are just making the problem worse by blowing them around :( It may just be a coincidence...you can have zero (measurable) phosphates and still have problems with bubble and/or other nuisance algae. -R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 September 16, 2009 Share September 16, 2009 The only way po4 gets in the system is by you adding it. Test a freshly mixed batch of saltwater and take a reading. Mysis is absolutely loaded with po4. Buy po4 free shrimp at the supermarket (it will say ingredients: Shrimp) and chop that up small and feed this instead. I realize this is not the question you asked but, thought I would offer a different solution. You will however need to use a GFO to remove the po4 that is already there, water changes wont cut it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancer99 September 16, 2009 Share September 16, 2009 This is why I'm starting to like WAMAS even less than reefcentral....too many "experts" who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about, or changed three or four things and got a result they were happy with, or tried one thing and it worked for them, ignoring the fact that their unique circumstances don't necessarily apply to anyone else. Without even knowing what Jan's "clusters of bubbles" are, how can you be so self-congratulatory in solving her problem? -R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 September 16, 2009 Share September 16, 2009 This is why I'm starting to like WAMAS even less than reefcentral....too many "experts" who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about, or changed three or four things and got a result they were happy with, or tried one thing and it worked for them, ignoring the fact that their unique circumstances don't necessarily apply to anyone else. Without even knowing what Jan's "clusters of bubbles" are, how can you be so self-congratulatory in solving her problem? -R Are you for real? We are all trying to help Jan here. We are all offering solutions that have worked for us to solve high po4 (the original question). You offered the thought that it may not be algae and that is a good contribution to the thread. Making post, trying to call people out is childish and quite frankly pretty rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k September 16, 2009 Share September 16, 2009 So- Jan, what do the bubbles look like? A pic would help it seems to be able to give accurate advice. Also do you have a good P04 test kit that reads to 0.01 ppm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind September 16, 2009 Share September 16, 2009 This is why I'm starting to like WAMAS even less than reefcentral....too many "experts" who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about, or changed three or four things and got a result they were happy with, or tried one thing and it worked for them, ignoring the fact that their unique circumstances don't necessarily apply to anyone else. Without even knowing what Jan's "clusters of bubbles" are, how can you be so self-congratulatory in solving her problem? -R I am not exactly sure why you made this comment but I absolutely agree with what dandy7200 has suggested to Jan. I do not see where he was ignoring anything and he offered some very good advice to ensure she doesn't unintentionally introduce any PO4 into her tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind September 16, 2009 Share September 16, 2009 Jan, Do you notice the bubbles at all before the lights come on in the morning. If there are few to none in the morning and then they multiply when the lights come on they are O2 bubbles as Lancer99 mentioned. Pictures would be very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan September 16, 2009 Author Share September 16, 2009 Are the clusters algae? I'm almost certain that the clusters of bubbles in various places in my tank are the start of algae bloom. Since the algae looks brownish reddish and sticks on some of my corals I'm thinking it may be Cyano. I hope not, but it may be. I get the regular brown green algae on my glass every couple of days too. I can see this other stuff on my green sinularia. It appears wrapped around the brances of the sinularia and it has bubbles trapped in it. I did have little clumps of bryopsis here and there and have taken care of it by shooting Kent Tech M directly on the clusters and increasing and maintaining my mag at 1500+. The bryopsis starts off as a very short fuzzy algae. I never saw bubbles with that. This stuff looks slimey but when I wipe it off of my power head it doesn't feel slimey. I also don't let it accumulate. Mysis? I defrost the mysis in a little cup then rinse it at least 3 times by placing it in a strainer and flushing it with RO/DI water with my turkey baster. I have a whole block of mysis that i just purchased through Jamals group buy so I wont be trying any fresh shrimp anytime soon. But I will eventually. I've added two units of chemi pure elite. The elite has GFO in it. Today I'm going to start using Phospure to see it that will help. Hey guys I always really appreciate everyone input. Please keep your thoughts and suggestions coming. That's the only way I learn. The different opinions helps me to see variables that may occur and also gives me other things to consider. I take most all your input and research it to gain more knowledge for myself and help my situation. None of it is ever wasted. It's brainstorming and critical thinking. Something I really enjoy. Thank you all very much for contrubuting and for sharing your very valued knowledge and thoughts with me and everyone else. J I've been noticing little clusters of bubbles here and there on the corners of the glass, some corals, rocks and the power heads. I've been blowing them off with a turkey baster along with detritus on my rocks. I finally decided to check all parameters and everything is really good except phosphates are >1. so I suspect that these clusters of bubbles are the begining of algal blooms. I've done a 10% water change and lowered the photo period. I've cut back on feedings to once every other day. What else can I do to stop an algal bloom? How often do you feed your livestock? i've got a mix of sun corals, dendros and fish that absolutely must eat, but how often? I was feeding the fish everyday, sometimes twice a day. The corals that need to be fed are fed every other day. I feed oyster eggs or mysis or cyclopeeze of Robs food. i don't give them all of this at one time. Am I still feeding too much? I have an ASM G1 skimmer that seems to be working very well. The skimmate is very dark. I have to empty the cup every other day. I also use 2 units of chemi pure elite in the sump. I have a reactor but haven't hooked it up yet. Not sure what to use it for. Maybe i need to use it for phosphate? Tell me what you think. Any advice and constructive input is always greatly appreciated. Thank you. specs and params are 75 gallon aga RR w/20 gallon sump 300 wats of 14K MH = 5-6 hours per day 204Watts actinic blue plus T5 = 10 hours per day I've lowered these times by about 2 hours each Ammonia 0 PH 8.4 Mag 1500 (keeping it high becaseu of bryopsis, even though it's gone now) Dkh 11 Nitrates 0 Nitrites 0 Calcium 500 Phosphate >1 SG 1.025 I dose b ionic part 1 and 2, Kent M tech and 3 drops of lugols with every water change J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan September 16, 2009 Author Share September 16, 2009 Yes, there are bubbles before the lights come on. Yes they increase throughout the day and even more when the MH's come on. The bubbles are stuck under or floating attached to slimey looking stuff. Jan, Do you notice the bubbles at all before the lights come on in the morning. If there are few to none in the morning and then they multiply when the lights come on they are O2 bubbles as Lancer99 mentioned. Pictures would be very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind September 16, 2009 Share September 16, 2009 The slimey description has me thinking it could be dinoflagellates. Do you drip kalk at all? That would also help bind the PO4 so it is not consumable by the algae. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stu September 16, 2009 Share September 16, 2009 Jan, The fact that you say it is "reddish," the trapped bubbles, and the algae increasing through the day makes me think it may be cyano. In my experience, cyano shrinks a bit at night then picks up a lot of steam as the lights come back on during the day. I have also seen cyano often with a layer of trapped bubbles under the slime. I believe some people say it is harmful, but I have always used a product called chemi clean when I have seen signs of cyano. I do this after physically removing as much of it as I can then siphoning it out of the water. It gets rid of it right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan September 16, 2009 Author Share September 16, 2009 That disgusting mucous looking stuff? Gosh, I hope not. The slimey description has me thinking it could be dinoflagellates. Do you drip kalk at all? That would also help bind the PO4 so it is not consumable by the algae. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S September 16, 2009 Share September 16, 2009 Hi Jan! I can also add that GFO helps lower phosphates in my tank. I run it in a BRS dual reactor (gfo and carbon). But be careful with GFO, if you add too much, it can really harm your tank. (BRS has excellent directions for it). -Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sen5241b September 16, 2009 Share September 16, 2009 Ensure you put a strong 2700K florescent light on your chaeto! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan September 16, 2009 Author Share September 16, 2009 (edited) Hi Ryan! How can too much GFO harm my tank? I like to know what to look for in situations of overdosing. Thanks. J Hi Jan! I can also add that GFO helps lower phosphates in my tank. I run it in a BRS dual reactor (gfo and carbon). But be careful with GFO, if you add too much, it can really harm your tank. (BRS has excellent directions for it). -Ryan Edited September 16, 2009 by Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan September 16, 2009 Author Share September 16, 2009 How can chemi clean be harmful? Jan, The fact that you say it is "reddish," the trapped bubbles, and the algae increasing through the day makes me think it may be cyano. In my experience, cyano shrinks a bit at night then picks up a lot of steam as the lights come back on during the day. I have also seen cyano often with a layer of trapped bubbles under the slime. I believe some people say it is harmful, but I have always used a product called chemi clean when I have seen signs of cyano. I do this after physically removing as much of it as I can then siphoning it out of the water. It gets rid of it right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan S September 16, 2009 Share September 16, 2009 Hi Ryan!How can too much GFO harm my tank? I like to know what to look for in situations of overdosing. Thanks. J Here are the GFO instructions I use. There was a guy in Kansas that put in double what he should have, and all kinds of things died. I'm not sure how/why the GFO did that, maybe someone else can chime in on the chemical reason behind it? Just start off slowly with the BRS starting amount recommendation, and you'll be fine. He put like double that in a cannister and things died. The good thing about GFO is that you don't have to change it very often. I change mine every 2-3 months, which is good b/c it's a little pricey. You could get some from BRS in the current group buy if you wanted... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 September 16, 2009 Share September 16, 2009 Many have noticed that when they change any tank parameter too quickly it can have drastic effects on corals, this includes removing po4. How long has your tank been setup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan September 16, 2009 Author Share September 16, 2009 it's very very new. Only about 3 months now. Many have noticed that when they change any tank parameter too quickly it can have drastic effects on corals, this includes removing po4. How long has your tank been setup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davjbeas September 16, 2009 Share September 16, 2009 Jan, If you like using the kent marine phosban I have a container of it you can have for free. just send me a Pm David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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