Happyfeet August 28, 2009 Share August 28, 2009 Hi guys! I'm just getting into salt water aquariums, been doing freshwater and amphibians for years, figured the next step is salt water. Ever since I can remember I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami August 28, 2009 Share August 28, 2009 Welcome to WAMAS, Happyfeet. Please consider becoming a member. There's are benefits, including access to the for sale and trade forums, which will pay off in your first transaction. It'll be the best $20 you've ever spent in this hobby. Please edit your profile to show your location. It's very helpful to the bunch of us so that, if you need help, we can determine who can reasonably support you. Based on your post, it sounds like you're there in Annandale near John Marr Drive and Little River Turnpike. I think you'll find that most of us would advise you to drill your tank before you go further. It's easy enough to do and I'm sure there's somebody close by that's a member of the club that can help you. At least one of our members runs a skimmerless system (zygote2k) at home. His filtration is not so much through an algae scrubber but through a well-stocked refugium. Some people would say that an algae scrubber has limited value in a small system. I'm not particularly well versed in this type of system so I can't tell you if I agree or disagree with the arguments. To tell the truth, most of us don't shop SuperPetz for any livestock. You'll find there are other local vendors who offer better service, are more knowledgeable, and who have better livestock handling procedures than SuperPetz. One of our newest vendors is PetLand (in Fairfax). I've not been there before, but you can find more information about experiences in our vendor experience area (which, by the way, is another members only forum). There's also Blue Ribbon Koi, often referred to here as BRK and one of our top-tier local shops, down in Manassas not too far off 66. They are very, very well respected by the members here. I highly recommend that you stop by and see how they're set up and what they have. There are more shops in the area, but these are two that are very close to you. Again, welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k August 28, 2009 Share August 28, 2009 Need help with a refugium based filter? Ask away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyfeet August 28, 2009 Author Share August 28, 2009 Tom, Nice to meet you, I had just signed up to become a member and submitted payment. Hopefully I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyfeet August 28, 2009 Author Share August 28, 2009 Need help with a refugium based filter? Ask away. No so much the filter, but rather the plumbing. =) I have an idea of what I want to do, I just need to sit down and plan it out. This will be my first time drilling a tank and setting up a fuge sump. This will also be my first time working with a pump so I'm more than a little worried I might get it wrong and flood the house! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k August 28, 2009 Share August 28, 2009 You say that you will have a 20g sump- just use that as the 'fuge and a place for the return pump. If you are going to drill your tank, I'd recommend drilling the back pane near the upper corners. It's much easier to plumb and less likely that the back is tempered compared top the bottom. You can partition a part of the sump so the return pump doesn't get clogged with macroalgae. If you'd like to stop by and check out my frankenstein system, feel free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k August 28, 2009 Share August 28, 2009 You say that you will have a 20g sump- just use that as the 'fuge and a place for the return pump. If you are going to drill your tank, I'd recommend drilling the back pane near the upper corners. It's much easier to plumb and less likely that the back is tempered compared top the bottom. You can partition a part of the sump so the return pump doesn't get clogged with macroalgae. If you'd like to stop by and check out my frankenstein system, feel free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind August 28, 2009 Share August 28, 2009 Welcome to the forum! Pristine Aquarium is really close to you and their info can be found in the vendors sections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyfeet August 28, 2009 Author Share August 28, 2009 You say that you will have a 20g sump- just use that as the 'fuge and a place for the return pump. If you are going to drill your tank, I'd recommend drilling the back pane near the upper corners. It's much easier to plumb and less likely that the back is tempered compared top the bottom. You can partition a part of the sump so the return pump doesn't get clogged with macroalgae. If you'd like to stop by and check out my frankenstein system, feel free. I may take you up on that offer, thanks! So you think I'll have enough room in my 20 gallon to silicone in some glass baffles and create an adequate fuge? From what I read you don't want a lot of flow going through the fuge, I thought the pump might create too much flow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyfeet August 28, 2009 Author Share August 28, 2009 Welcome to the forum! Pristine Aquarium is really close to you and their info can be found in the vendors sections. Thanks! I'm actually making plans to go visit them on Monday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami August 28, 2009 Share August 28, 2009 I had just signed up to become a member and submitted payment. Hopefully I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyfeet August 28, 2009 Author Share August 28, 2009 Since you're looking to try to go skimmerless and Rob's offered a visit to see his setup, I recommend that you take him up on the offer. Your right! I didn't put two and two together, I'd be very interested to see that set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k August 28, 2009 Share August 28, 2009 My DT dumps into my 'fuge. The 'fuge is an old acrylic wet/dry filter. The part that used to hold bio-balls now holds rock rubble. Water then passes thru some baffles into the algae area, then out the top into the main sump/DSB, then back to the DT. I have another sump just like it if you're interested in going with that approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyfeet August 28, 2009 Author Share August 28, 2009 (edited) My DT dumps into my 'fuge. The 'fuge is an old acrylic wet/dry filter. The part that used to hold bio-balls now holds rock rubble. Water then passes thru some baffles into the algae area, then out the top into the main sump/DSB, then back to the DT. I have another sump just like it if you're interested in going with that approach. I actually have a different approach in mind. Lights go infront and behind of the screen to stimulate algae growth and increase their filtering power. I'm thinking I might section the sump into fuge/sump so that water comes down the sheet and into the liverock. Here this will give you an idea. Edited August 28, 2009 by Happyfeet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8 2 RISE August 28, 2009 Share August 28, 2009 Welcome! I love your avatar, it fooled me for a sec! If you'd like help planning out your plumbing or drilling, you're welcome to come over, check out my system (it's basically what you're planning on, but bigger in scale). As for drilling, you can bring your tank and drill bits (or I have some left over for 1in, 1.5in, and I think 3/4in bulkheads that you can borrow) and we can drill your tank. I'm not one of the "pro's" here, but I've punched 5 holes in my 75 and 3 in a 40 hex and feel comfortable drilling through glass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyfeet August 28, 2009 Author Share August 28, 2009 (edited) Welcome! I love your avatar, it fooled me for a sec! If you'd like help planning out your plumbing or drilling, you're welcome to come over, check out my system (it's basically what you're planning on, but bigger in scale). As for drilling, you can bring your tank and drill bits (or I have some left over for 1in, 1.5in, and I think 3/4in bulkheads that you can borrow) and we can drill your tank. I'm not one of the "pro's" here, but I've punched 5 holes in my 75 and 3 in a 40 hex and feel comfortable drilling through glass. Oh awesome! You sure you wouldn't mind if I used a bit? I've heard they wear out fast, you might want to save them. I'll draw up what I'm thinking of doing for a surface skimmer if I drilled my tank. Maybe you could look it over. It would require 2 holes in the tank... though it could probably be done just as easily with one. (Not my pictures) I remembered where I got some of the idea from, so I've taken some pictures off of his build to illustrate what I want to do. Though they aren't exactly the same as what I want to do. The idea is there. Most of those pictures are from a recent build thats being just finished up. I like this idea because in the end of a power outage only a small amount of water flows back into the sump. While doing research for the overflow plumbing I had come across his build and jumped in with him. Edited August 28, 2009 by Happyfeet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8 2 RISE August 28, 2009 Share August 28, 2009 Oh awesome! You sure you wouldn't mind if I used a bit? I've heard they wear out fast, you might want to save them. I'll draw up what I'm thinking of doing for a surface skimmer if I drilled my tank. Maybe you could look it over. It would require 2 holes in the tank... though it could probably be done just as easily with one. (Not my pictures) I remembered where I got some of the idea from, so I've taken some pictures off of his build to illustrate what I want to do. Though they aren't exactly the same as what I want to do. The idea is there. Most of those pictures are from a recent build thats being just finished up. I like this idea because in the end of a power outage only a small amount of water flows back into the sump. While doing research for the overflow plumbing I had come across his build and jumped in with him. Nope, no problem. Some of them, mainly the 1in are a little worn out already from my use, but should still work. To be safe you may want to buy a new one, but mine will probably be fine. You know, as soon as you said your idea for a surface skimmer, I immediately thought of the exact set up you pictured. I'm planning on using that on my 120 cube. I would go with two holes because one of the advantages of this set up is that it gives you some safety in case one side gets clogged. LMK when/if you want to swing by and PM for address. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbartco August 28, 2009 Share August 28, 2009 Permissions changed. Welcome. Have a meeting at the NADC this Sat, come join us. See announcements section! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happyfeet August 28, 2009 Author Share August 28, 2009 Permissions changed. Welcome. Have a meeting at the NADC this Sat, come join us. See announcements section! I'll see if I can fit it in, I'm absolutely swamped this weekend with moving and my other hobby... horses! The girlfriend and I are showing our horse this weekend in Maryland. L8 2 Rise, not sure when I'll be able to make it out. Maybe next weekend. I'll let you know. Any suggestion on what side I should make the holes? I was thinking 1"... Maybe i should go bigger, I can always throttle back the flow with the gates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8 2 RISE August 28, 2009 Share August 28, 2009 I'll see if I can fit it in, I'm absolutely swamped this weekend with moving and my other hobby... horses! The girlfriend and I are showing our horse this weekend in Maryland. L8 2 Rise, not sure when I'll be able to make it out. Maybe next weekend. I'll let you know. Any suggestion on what side I should make the holes? I was thinking 1"... Maybe i should go bigger, I can always throttle back the flow with the gates. I was thinking 1 inch as well, but I'm a little biased in that I try to stay at 1 inch as much as possible. It could never hurt to go 1.5 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sde219 August 28, 2009 Share August 28, 2009 I might be an idiot - but how does that drain work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boret August 28, 2009 Share August 28, 2009 Welcome to WAMAS!!! Right off the bat you are getting great info from everybody. I echo all of their advice. I would like to emphasize that the best thing you can do right now is to look at as many setups as possible. Take your time looking at tanks, you can learn tons from it. I am not crazy about the algae scrubber system but maybe it works for you. One of the biggest draw backs in my opinion is smell and constant maintenance. It also depends on what is it that you want to put in the tank. If you are going for just fish and a couple of mushrooms you don't need "perfect" water, but if you want SPS (and from the lighting it looks like you do) you will need very good parameters. There are 2 things I will always have in whatever saltwater system I setup, a controller and a skimmer. Good luck, this is a challenging hobby, but very rewarding if done properly. You are welcome to visit my home and take a look at my setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8 2 RISE August 29, 2009 Share August 29, 2009 I might be an idiot - but how does that drain work? It's a pipe with a slit down the middle that sits inside the tank. Water flows into the slit, down the pipe and into the sump. It's supposed to be dead quiet and amazing at surface skimming. It also is said to have very little suction so no fish get stuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sde219 August 29, 2009 Share August 29, 2009 It's a pipe with a slit down the middle that sits inside the tank. Water flows into the slit, down the pipe and into the sump. It's supposed to be dead quiet and amazing at surface skimming. It also is said to have very little suction so no fish get stuck. But what about the climb over the top of the tank? I get how a siphon might do it but not sure how it would work otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami August 29, 2009 Share August 29, 2009 But what about the climb over the top of the tank? I get how a siphon might do it but not sure how it would work otherwise. It is a siphon. Happyfeet, whatever you do, please size your sump return chamber and your sump in general to cover three failure mechanisms: 1) A power outage. During a power outage, tanks can drain down through siphons. There are two immediate ones that you should be aware of: 1a) Your siphon drain (or any drain). The system you've shown seems like it pulls water from close enough to the surface not to drain down the tank too much. Still, you need to have room for what does drain down without overflowing the sump. 1b) The return from your main pump. If the power goes out on the main pump, flow can reverse and drain water out of the display and into the sump, resulting in sump overflow. 2) Partial or full siphon failure (it could happen during startup after a power failure, from clogging, or from excessive air becoming trapped in the siphon tube). In this case, your return pump may pump more water up than your siphon can remove in this state and your display can overflow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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