ATO - How Do you have your setup?

[Quantum Aquaria]

ok, so i'm finally getting around to setting up my ATO but would like to see what others folks out there have. Here's what I have and trying to accomplish:

 

tunze osmolator

Kalk Reactor

55 gallon water drum for ro/di water

ro/di connected to my laundry faucet

 

currently, i turn on the ro/di unit manually to fill the water drum, then pump the water into my sump when i see that water has evaporated. Obviously, then requires constant attention so I'd like to automate things more.

 

1) Is there a way that I can just leave the ro/di unit on all the time with the line running into my water drum with a float valve that will trigger the ro/di unit to dispense water when it the water line drops?

 

2) How should I hook the Tunze osmolator to the kalk reactor so that it will dispense that as my top-off water?

 

Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated... pictures of your setup always welcome

[Boret]

An ASOV (Automatic Shut Off Valve) will turn OFF the RODI production when the output line is closed.

You can use a Float valve to stop the output once it reaches a specific level. The back pressure will shut off the RODI.

Air Water and Ice sells both. As a matter of fact chances are you already might have a ASOV in your RODI unit.

This is what it looks like:

 

ASOV

 

And this is a float valve:

 

However, I wouldn't use it just like that. Every time you add Top Off water through your Kalk Stirrer the level in the RODI drum will slightly lower, the RODI will then start and run for a few minutes and shut off again. This will happen several times during the day. By turning on and off your RODI you actually get lower quality water. If you are measuring TDS you will notice how the TDS is higher when you start the RODI and goes down to 0 once it has been running for a while.

 

You have several options to avoid this.

 

1. Have a manual valve at the beginning of the RODI unit. You can open it up and let the RODI work for several hours. The ASOV and Float valve will shut the RODI off once it fills the drum and then you can shut the intake of the RODI off manually. With a 50 gal drum you can probably have enough water for a 10 days. This does require that you turn it on and off manually every 10 days, but the membrane in the RODI will last longer and you will get lower TDS RODI water.

 

2. You can get a bit fancy and use a float switch and a solenoid valve. I recently did that to my system and I am pretty happy with it. I added a 120v solenoid valve (purchased at BRK) at the beginning of the RODI unit. I kept the manual valve before the solenoid to be able to turn it off and service the RODI and solenoid if necessary. I placed a float switch with a plastic rod about 3 inches from the bottom of my RODI drum (45 gal), I connected the float switch to my ACIII and the solenoid to the DC8. When the drum empties and reaches that lower level it activates the float switch and the ACIII turns on the solenoid thus turning on the flow of water into the RODI unit. The only tricky part is the programing. If you just have and ON / OFF statement with the controller the solenoid will shut off as soon as the float switch turns off when the RODI adds a bit of water. So I added a statement that will keep the solenoid ON for several hours pretty much filling the drum completely. It took me a couple of tries to figure out the exact amount of time needed to fill up 35-40 gals.

This is the statement I use:

 

If Switch1 OPEN Then RDI ON

Max Change 420 M Then RDI ON

If Switch1 CLOSE Then RDI OFF

 

Where RDI is the Solenoid.

 

This is what a solenoid looks like:

 

 

 

I still keep the float valve and ASOV for double redundancy and I even made a hole above the float valve and connected a line from the drum directly into the drain just in case both the Float Valve and the ASOV fail.

Edited August 3, 2009 by Boret

[Boret]

You can see the system in action in my signature. When the RODI drum is almost empty the RODI Low Lvl Alarm is ON. This Alarm sends me an email message to let me know the water level is low. Then the RODI tag will display "ON" letting me know that the RODI unit is filling up the drum. I placed the alarm to keep track of the system to see how it works and to be able to figure out the exact amount of time I needed to keep the solenoid open. Once I am confortable with the system I will probably eliminate the alarm.

[Boret]

Now the Auto Top Off.

 

I have not used the Tunze myself but I have heard that it is a very reliable unit. I bought a JBJ-ATO unit from BRK over 2 years ago and it is still working like a champ.

I think the Tunze has its own pump so I imagine you just place the pump at the bottom of your RODI drum and run a tube to the intake of the Kalk Reactor, then have gravity fill the sump from the overflow of the kalk reactor. You will have to place the float switches in the sump.

 

For the JBJ that I have I need an additional pump to move water from the RODI drum to the kalk reactor. I use a maxijet 400 that I throttle down with a mini valve and a check valve in line to avoid siphoning back the kalk reactor water into the RODI drum.

 

 

The JBJ comes with 2 sensors, a 120v socket and a couple of features that i really like.

 

You have several configurations.

 

1. You can have just 1 sensor in the sump that will turn ON a pump (maxijet, peristaltic pump, etc...) in the RODI drum to feed water into the kalk reactor. The kalk reactor will then overflow with Kalk saturated water and rise the water level in your sump until the float swith turns off.

 

2. Another configuration allows you to add the second float switch in the RODI drum, very close to the bottom, so if there isn't enough water in the drum it won't turn on the pump to avoid running it dry and burning it.

 

3. The 3rd configuration allows you to put both float switches in the sump and have the ATO turn on when the lower switch is activated and stay on until it reaches the higher float switch.

 

One of the features that I like with the JBJ ATO is that in configurations 1 and 2 the JBJ will limit to 3 minutes the max amount of time the pump will be ON thus avoiding overdosing. It also has LEDs that let you know when the float switches are on and when the pump (or whatever you have connected to the socket) is on.

 

You might need to have someone with experience with the Tunze to provide their configuration ideas but overall the concept is the same.

[DaveS]

An alternative to the solenoid is a configuration like this:

 

 

No electricity, fancy wiring or need for an AC3. When the water level reaches the bottom of the 4" pvc pipe, the water inside the pipe spills out tripping float valve.

[Boret]

That's cool idea!

Do you have pictures of it?

I already had the ACIII and only added the I/O Box ($35).

You still need the solenoid and float switch with you design.

 

What air check valve did you get? How do you support the PVC pipe? What did you use to cover the top, a 4" PVC cap? Any maintenance needed in the air check valve?

[Boret]

Will something like this do?

 

[DaveS]

That's cool idea!

Do you have pictures of it?

I already had the ACIII and only added the I/O Box ($35).

You still need the solenoid and float switch with you design.

 

What air check valve did you get? How do you support the PVC pipe? What did you use to cover the top, a 4" PVC cap? Any maintenance needed in the air check valve?

 

 

heh, I saw it somewhere else but I haven't put my version together yet. I'm pretty sure that a 4" pvc cap will work and that you don't need to do anything fancy for supporting the pipe. You can even construct a stand from PVC pipes, just make sure you drill a bunch of holes to substitute for an open bottom.

 

Also, keep in mind that depending on the size of the float switch and check valves, it doesn't need to be 4" PVC but could be a smaller pipe.

[Quantum Aquaria]

ok... i'm just sitting back and admiring all the knowledge of everyone

 

gonna have to give this a more thorough reading to see how i want to set mine up.

 

Keep the info coming guys.

[cabrego]

You have heard a few different option on how to basically approach the ATO setup. However, from my experience and the research I have done one of the biggest factors you need to consider is the actual system / component design (i.e., number of float switches, relay, etc).

 

Most of the in box off the shelf systems will handle this appropriately and that is why they are expensive. But, you can build something similarly adequate for alot less if you are a DIY'er.

 

http://www.aquahub.com/store/product27.html

 

Check out aquahub, to get an idea of what diy'er can do. There is also a lot of good basic information about setup, relays, and components.

 

 

I use a the deluxe kit from aqua hub, which employs two float switches in the sump for redundancy to prevent over flow. I do not worry about my ro di reservoir drying out because it holds about 20 gallons and i know it is good for about a week.

[phisigs79]

Mine is simple and works really well. I have two float switches each hooked up to a extension cord. I have one hooked up to the smallest pump possible. I use this for water only. Then the other one I have hooked up a aqua lifter that goes through my kalk reactor. Both of the extension cords are then hooked up to two timers for fail safe measures. You can tweak the timers to have the system work the way you need it to. This option is cheap and effective and my days of kalk overdosing are gone.

 

For my RO makeup water I use a solenoid hooked up to a high and lower float switch. When the water gets low it cut the main water supply to the RO filter on and when it reaches the high float switch it cuts off the main water supply.

 

Both of these items cost me less than store bought ATO and IMO works alot better

Edited August 4, 2009 by phisigs79

[extreme_tooth_decay]

I've been using the same system with 0 maintenance, 0 float switches (which I don't trust), 0 solenoids, etc for 5 years.

 

All I have are: peristaltic pump, analog timer, R/O reservoir.

 

The pump comes on for about an hour per day (timer-adjustable) and pumps water from the reservoir to the tank.

 

No switches to fail, no chance of flooding. Easily adjustable. Nice slow addition (drip) of the make-up water. You can choose your peristaltic pump.

[cabrego]

Mine is simple and works really well. I have two float switches each hooked up to a extension cord. I have one hooked up to the smallest pump possible. I use this for water only. Then the other one I have hooked up a aqua lifter that goes through my kalk reactor. Both of the extension cords are then hooked up to two timers for fail safe measures. You can tweak the timers to have the system work the way you need it to. This option is cheap and effective and my days of kalk overdosing are gone.

 

For my RO makeup water I use a solenoid hooked up to a high and lower float switch. When the water gets low it cut the main water supply to the RO filter on and when it reaches the high float switch it cuts off the main water supply.

 

Both of these items cost me less than store bought ATO and IMO works alot better

 

phisigs,

 

why do you have timers and float switches? What exactly do the timers control if you have float switches?

[phisigs79]

Timers control how long the float switch can run for and when they cut on. You never have to worry about a float switch sticking and staying on

[cabrego]

Timers control how long the float switch can run for and when they cut on. You never have to worry about a float switch sticking and staying on

 

 

I still don't understand.

 

Are you using the timers to control when the voltage through the switch is active? Essentially, controlling when the switch to be powered, which is different from the switch actually being on and off.

[phisigs79]

The timer control when they can power on and off. When the water level goes above the float the float switch cuts off no matter if the timer is on or not. The issue with float switches are they can fail and stay on. The timer will cut the power off after 15min no matter if it sticks or not therefore keeping your sump for overflowing and overdosing

[cabrego]

I don't understand it...

 

is the timer initiated by the float switch?

[Boret]

phisigs79 system is ideal to control pH as well. Normally pH lowers at night so you only top off at night to compensate. I have been thinking about putting my ATO on a timer as well to do so. I don't have a large pH swing, goes from 8.09 to 8.20, but it might make it even more stable. I clean my float switches every 5-6 months. I use configuration 1 in my JBJ ATO so I always have 1 clean float switch. I replace the clean one with the dirty one, clean the dirty one (vinegar soak) and reserve it for the next time around. I haven't had a kalk overdose in 3 years of use. I also have the smallest kalk stirrer that GSA made so even if it gets stuck I probably won't overdose the tank.

[Boret]

The timer is connected to the pump (or to the ATO device - relay). So even if you float switch is ON there is no electricity going into the pump. Only at specific times the timer is ON providing electricity and therefore running the pump (peristaltic or regular pump). If the float switch gets stuck on the ON position you will only pump for the amount of time that the timer is ON. Does it make sense? The float switch can get stuck in the OFF position as well so it is a good practice to service the float switches (cleaning, clearing snails, etc...). Even though I clean mine twice a year I check it visually often. The JBJ ATO float switch comes with a guard and so far I have not had issues with it. I also avoid snails in my sump.

[cabrego]

Ok, that makes sense.

 

However, if you are out of town, there is nothing to prevent the system from over flowing if the float valve is stuck on.

[Jon Lazar]

Ok, that makes sense.

 

However, if you are out of town, there is nothing to prevent the system from over flowing if the float valve is stuck on.

 

You could install another float switch in the top of your sump well above the high water line that is normally closed. If somehow everything got stuck and the system continued to add water, the water level would eventually contact this float switch and open the circuit, turning off the top off pump before the sump overflowed.

 

Jon

[cabrego]

I suppose that is the ultimate redundancy for a 99.9% flood safe ATO.

 

I use the two switch approach as Jon described without the timer. So, I guess I am at like 98% flood safe.

[phisigs79]

Ok, that makes sense.

 

However, if you are out of town, there is nothing to prevent the system from over flowing if the float valve is stuck on.

 

 

True but i think that it would take a few days for this to happen instead of a couple of hours. Hopefully you have someone watching your tank that know what they are doing and catches it or you catch it when you get back before it overflows. Its 100% float safe if you look at it everyday

[rioreef]

Yes, I have my RO/DI connected directly to my sump and after 4+ years, never a problem with the setup or tank.

 

I have a float switch to activate a solenoid when the water level gets low. There is also a high water level float switch that will turn off the solenoid if it is activated.

 

I have a timer on my as well that will only let power go to the solenoid twice a day for a 10 min period each. Regardless of if the float switches fail, the solenoid will only be open during those times. My water requirement and that time period are close, so my water levels stay in check.

 

I have been using equipment from www.autotopoff.com, check them out.