Mich February 22, 2009 February 22, 2009 I've recently setup a 156 gallon reef and am considering what types of algae eaters to put in. In the past I've started new systems with with a mixture of trochus and cerith snails as well as blue / red leg hermit crabs. This is usually an effective system for about a year until the crab's carnivorous tendencies begin to manifest and then I find myself decrabbing the tank. There have been times in the past that I've tried to go completely crabless, but even turbos dont seem to do the good rock job like little crabs. Then I've got to go in with the toothbrush (which I hate). I know that there are some very mixed opinions on hermit crabs. Anyone have some input on this situation? Should I just recrab once a year? Go crabless? emerald crabs?
steveoutlaw February 22, 2009 February 22, 2009 That's just nature happening. Crabs are going to beat up other crabs and snails for their shells. You can minimize this by having a lot of empty hermit shells in your tank (various sizes to accomodate them as they grow) and by getting mexican red leg hermits. They're cheap and they are the least aggressive that I've seen. Those blue legs are vicious.
Mich February 22, 2009 Author February 22, 2009 (edited) Yeah the Mexican red legs are my preffered crab. Regardless, I know in a years time I'll still be fishing them out to replace with smaller specimens. They have $.99 tiny blue legs at the LFS by my house. So I've been leaning in that direction. In my experience their temprement isn't that much worse than the red legs. Plus, I've got hundreds of empty shells. I'm thinking, is a big crab less likely to kill a small snail? As my crabs grow should I replace my dead gastropods with ones that are too small for my monstrous crabs to host in? How can I most effectively exploit the nature of crabs and snails so that it is less costly and time consuming to me? Are there some simple alternatives that I'm over looking? Edited February 22, 2009 by Mich
fosterspike February 22, 2009 February 22, 2009 after they finish growing there shouldnt be any problems should there?
steveoutlaw February 22, 2009 February 22, 2009 As far as I know, the only reason a hermit crab will kill a snail or other hermit crab is for the shell...........unless you're not feeding and then it's for chow. I probably buy 25 hermits and 25 snails every 3 months or so just to replenish the casualties of war.
Mich February 22, 2009 Author February 22, 2009 As far as I know, the only reason a hermit crab will kill a snail or other hermit crab is for the shell...........unless you're not feeding and then it's for chow. I probably buy 25 hermits and 25 snails every 3 months or so just to replenish the casualties of war. I find myself doing the same thing unless I switch out all the established crabs with new little ones. This usually buys me + or - a year of cease fire. What I'd really like though is to engineer a means of perpetual harmony. Has anyone evr acheived this? There must be a way to beat nature!
davelin315 February 23, 2009 February 23, 2009 In my current system I have one or two rogue crabs who hitchhiked in with the rock, otherwise I don't keep any in my display, only snails. This is a change in philosophy from what I used to do, keeping many varied types of crabs. I have to admit that the tank is not as active without the crabs, they were neat to watch interact and to watch breed, but they also were predatory. If you go with hermits, I would go with the orange knuckled ones with blue eyes (I think they're now being sold as Hawaiian hermits), left handed hermits, some of the scarlet reef hermits, and perhaps the blue knuckled hermits as well. They're less aggressive and tend to be more at peace in the tank.
Mich February 23, 2009 Author February 23, 2009 In my current system I have one or two rogue crabs who hitchhiked in with the rock, otherwise I don't keep any in my display, only snails. This is a change in philosophy from what I used to do, keeping many varied types of crabs. I have to admit that the tank is not as active without the crabs, they were neat to watch interact and to watch breed, but they also were predatory. If you go with hermits, I would go with the orange knuckled ones with blue eyes (I think they're now being sold as Hawaiian hermits), left handed hermits, some of the scarlet reef hermits, and perhaps the blue knuckled hermits as well. They're less aggressive and tend to be more at peace in the tank. Thanks Dave, I'll look into those. I've never kept the Hawaiians or the left handeds. Off topic; I went to Floris Elementary in fith and sixth grade I wish we had a 300 gallon reef back then. Floris must be moving up in the world.
igozoom February 23, 2009 February 23, 2009 I've never seen a scarlet legged hermit go after anything living. I've had some blue legs grow into knuckle dragging monsters that grab at every passing snail. I just won some more tiny blue legs from Fiji direct at the meeting, and they are probably the last ones I'll ever put in my tank. By the way, the Fiji direct clean up crews have been great. I had one DOA, at least the blue legs have been picking away at it today I noticed. All the snails and peppermint shrimp were small, vigorous and got right to work.
Mich February 23, 2009 Author February 23, 2009 By the way, the Fiji direct clean up crews have been great. I had one DOA, at least the blue legs have been picking away at it today I noticed. All the snails and peppermint shrimp were small, vigorous and got right to work. I've had mixed experiences with mail ordering cleanup crews. I've had a couple times where I've opened the ups box to find a bag of chunky snail soup or two. I'm pretty sure I'm going to get my crew from the LFS, that way I can see what's active and healthy before I buy it. I am however, starting to have some second thoughts about the blue legs. It seems like there's a consensus here, that they're viscious.
jamesbuf February 23, 2009 February 23, 2009 I have a few of these. http://www.bluezooaquatics.com/productDeta...1110&cid=80 They are so superior to regular old hermit crabs. They are very active, and I've yet to have any problems with any of them.
extreme_tooth_decay February 23, 2009 February 23, 2009 It's the hermits that don't survive in my tank. Food chain, circle of life, etc.
fosterspike February 24, 2009 February 24, 2009 mine never attack my snails only other hermits every once in a while, but the hermits that lose never get eaten just relocate to a new shell.
Mich February 24, 2009 Author February 24, 2009 FYI, I went with the Cortez (mexican) redlegs. They were $.50 more than the blues, but hopefully they won't be quite as brutal when they get big. I decided to avoid the scarlet reef, hawaiins and blue knuckles since they seem to be less algaelly inclined from what I've been reading. So hopefully I've got about a year before I have to round up and replace. extreme_tooth_decay - You have a crab predator in your reef?
igozoom February 24, 2009 February 24, 2009 "FYI, Blue Ribbon Koi in Manassas usually has the Mexican red legs for a great price." Call first, I just bought the last 8.
igozoom February 24, 2009 February 24, 2009 extreme_tooth_decay - You have a crab predator in your reef? Crab predator? As in a fish or as in an invert hitchhiker? I don't have any fish other than a pair of ocellaris, but I've often wondered what it is that's wiping out my hermits. I always assumed it was LFS distress or shell-jackers, but I've never seen crab-on-crab violence, just crab-on-snail violence. Even my mithrax did not last long. By contrast, I have a tiny crab that looks sort of like a 1/16" porcelain crab that came in on my live rock, survived the cycle, and still pops out for a rare moment once every 4 months for the last 2 years. Any known non-fish hermit predators out there? I've never read anything about crab pathology.
Mich February 24, 2009 Author February 24, 2009 extreme_tooth_decay - You have a crab predator in your reef? Crab predator? As in a fish or as in an invert hitchhiker? I don't have any fish other than a pair of ocellaris, but I've often wondered what it is that's wiping out my hermits. I always assumed it was LFS distress or shell-jackers, but I've never seen crab-on-crab violence, just crab-on-snail violence. Even my mithrax did not last long. By contrast, I have a tiny crab that looks sort of like a 1/16" porcelain crab that came in on my live rock, survived the cycle, and still pops out for a rare moment once every 4 months for the last 2 years. Any known non-fish hermit predators out there? I've never read anything about crab pathology. I've had issues similar to this in the past, often my mithrax will appear chalky regardless of where they are in their molt cycle. Usually they're the first to go subsequent to displaying this chalkyness symptom, followed by other crustaceans. Non crustacean invertibrates seem to be unnaffected during these die offs which tend to occur after a system has been running for over a year. My best conclusion so far has been magnesium deficiency due to excessive nutrient export via ATS. The augmentation of magnesium levels using epsom salts or magnesium additives seems to have corrected this problem. However, my results may be specious as being uncertain of an exact cause I also tend to supplement iodine and generic "trace elements" plus strontium and molybdenum at the same time I add magnesium. So a deficiency of any of the above could be a likely cause, or the supplementation of magnesium (as well as others) and the perpetual survival of reef crustaceans could be merely coincidental. Maybe a plague just ran its course in spite of my troubleshooting? It's worth a try though, do you check your magnesium? It should be three times your calcium. Also, are you using macro algae as a nutrient exporter? THe first time I ever experienced this problem was about 16 months into a system in which I was growing profuse amounts of chaetomorpha as my primary means or N03 and p04 removal. My magnesium was in the 500s. It was the only testable water parameter that I could find out of wack.
droyal1110 February 24, 2009 February 24, 2009 extreme_tooth_decay - awesome pictures! I personally have something like 20 snails and about 7 or 8 hermits left. Originally started with 15 hermits and they fought amongst themselves. Now I have a wide variety of snails and pretty much only scarlet hermits and everyone is happy, I do have plenty of shells in my tank though.
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