Feeding survey

[FishWife]

As most of you know, I have an RSM 34 gallon tank. (See link to build thread below if unfamiliar.)

 

Lately, we've been struggling nitrates, and on Sunday, realized that we also had ammonia problems, though two 10% water changes brought that under control, at least as of this AM.

 

RSMs can't be drilled (tempered glass) so we have no sump. We've regularly changed water at LEAST once a week (5-7% change) and also done some battling with cyano after our move (lights on for a longer photoperiod plus mini-cycle?) so did extra "vaccuuming" of the sand getting up cyano for the last month. Photoperiod was reduced a month ago to 9 hours. Lights are due to be changed out the end of this month.

 

We have a lot of live rock in there (which may be "tired"? came out of our large system 9 months ago, and from other WAMAS systems before that)--about half the water volume of the tank but I have no idea what that translates to in lbs (see pics in build thread). At least 30, though--so we're puzzled about the ammonia. Can't see anything dead or decaying... have a lot of open spaces between the rocks so think we'd see it if it was a gelatinous mess, as is usually the case with dead stuff. We have one midas blenny and one small flasher wrasse in there... not a high bioload. About three large turbos and a few smaller snails. Also maybe four or five hermit crabs and we just added a peppermint shrimp because of the aiptasia, which are sprouting up all over despite Joe's Juice.

 

OK; so that's the profile. I was talking this over with someone who suggested that this ammonia/nitrate rise is a part of a mini-cycle. I can't fathom that two months AFTER our move.

 

I had (for months) been feeding once a day (some days, twice) a small pinch of all-purpose pellet fish food. About twice to three times a week on average, we also feed brine shrimps to the sun coral colony in our tank. I feed no cyclopese or any other coral food; just add calcium regularly.

 

1. Is that too much food?

 

2. How much/what/how often would you minimally feed this tank?

Edited January 26, 2009 by FishWife

[www.fishnreef.com]

Marcia,

How do you know you have amonia problems? If you have tested. Test again or use another test kit. What are your base parameters?

FWIW, I find that identifying and re-checking all the possible variables which are affecting my tanks gives be a baseline from which I can then adjust one parameter or the other. Else, I have ended up changing a parameter which then has other unintended side-effects, while still leaving the original problem!

Nadir

 

WHERE'S BOB'S SPELCHEKR!

Edited January 26, 2009 by www.fishnreef.com

[FishWife]

Marcia,

How do you know you have amonia problems? If you have tested. Test again or use another test kit. What are your base parameters.

FWIW, I find that identifying and re-checking all the possible variables which are affecting my tanks gives be a baseline from which I can then adjust one parameter or the other. Else, I have ended up changing a parameter which then has other undintended side-effects, while still leaving the original problem!

Nadir

 

Thanks for answering! On Saturday, I noticed that my birdsnest was not extended and colors faded. Other corals looked "ok" but not perky. Had been awhile since we tested perameters, since I don't rely on testing so much as observation (which is maybe not good, but it has served me fine for years, so...). Anyways, we tested and ammonia was .50 and nitrates were two colors up on the chart as well (can't remember the scale right now; but higher than good). Two 10% water changes on Sat and Sun have brought it back to zero... but I want to test tomorrow to see where it is.. maybe all days this week. Birdsnest is back to normal status, and everyone looks happy right now... but I'm like "gee!" We looked at drilling the RSM for a sump (what I would have liked all along) but a phone call this AM confirmed that the glass is tempered. SO... looking, as you say, for underlying causes so we can know our boundaries, I'm looking first at this: do I overfeed?

[www.fishnreef.com]

If you watch your livestock finishing the food that you give, then you probably are not overfeeding.

 

Wait and test again at regular intervals (twice weekly) so you understand the scope of the problem (is the amonia/nitrate slowly rising or does it jump up quickly, by how much. Is the increase decreasing). Best not to apply too many "remedies" at the same time.

[FishWife]

If you watch your livestock finishing the food that you give, then you probably are not overfeeding.

 

Wait and test again at regular intervals (twice weekly) so you understand the scope of the problem (are the ammonia/nitrate slowly rising or does it jump up quickly, by how much. Is the increase decreasing.). Best not to apply too many "remedies" at the same time.

 

Good advice. My anxieties lead me to think that nitrates can't be overcome without a sump... but a slow and steady approach and regular testing are surely best.

 

So, I'd still like to know what others think of this feeding amount? What/how much do you all feed, especially in smaller systems?

[bamainva]

I currently have 2 29g biocubes and feed once every other day.. mysis shrimp 1 frozen cube and rotate between cylopeeze and baby brine shrimp mixed with the mysis. I also thaw the cubes in distilled water and drain before putting in the tank.

 

Tank 1 (going on one year)

Canary Blenny

Neon Goby

Yellow Watchman Goby

Carpenter Wrasse

 

Tank 2 (going on 10 months)

Clown

Blue Spotted Jawfish

Firefish

Six Line Wrasse

 

The only issue I have run across was due to my own neglect, but am working on getting tank 2 back in shape.. :-).

 

I do 10% water changes every Monday.

[treesprite]

Good advice. My anxieties lead me to think that nitrates can't be overcome without a sump... but a slow and steady approach and regular testing are surely best.

You don't need a sump to have zero nitrate, nor even a skimmer. When I had a 16g nano at work the nitrate was zero with nothing for filtration other than a 5" DSB and macros.

[FishWife]

You don't need a sump to have zero nitrate, nor even a skimmer. When I had a 16g nano at work the nitrate was zero with nothing for filtration other than a 5" DSB and macros.

 

We have 4" sand and NO macros.

 

We are running Chemipure and Purigen AND a Tunze skimmer, which doesn't pull much gunk.

[Jon Lazar]

Marcia,

How do you know you have amonia problems? If you have tested. Test again or use another test kit. What are your base parameters?

FWIW, I find that identifying and re-checking all the possible variables which are affecting my tanks gives be a baseline from which I can then adjust one parameter or the other. Else, I have ended up changing a parameter which then has other unintended side-effects, while still leaving the original problem!

Nadir

 

WHERE'S BOB'S SPELCHEKR!

 

Marcia,

 

You can also validate your ammonia test kit result by testing new saltwater that hasn't gone into your tank yet. It's pretty safe to assume that the ammonia will be zero if you use RO water. Run the test and use that color as a comparison to the actual tankwater.

 

Jon

[FishWife]

Marcia,

 

You can also validate your ammonia test kit result by testing new saltwater that hasn't gone into your tank yet. It's pretty safe to assume that the ammonia will be zero if you use RO water. Run the test and use that color as a comparison to the actual tankwater.

 

Jon

 

Right; we validated the nitrate test on new salt water; should do the ammonia, too, I guess. Good thought.

[FishWife]

SO, if you don't have a sump, I guess the only possibility for nitrate export is water changes, right?

[steveoutlaw]

I would cut down feedings to every other day. You could also add a hang on refugium.

 

I've heard that the Tunze skimmers are very finicky and hard to adjust. Try to borrow a Aqua-C Remora and see how that does. I feed once every 2-3 days, only have 3 fish, and the aqua-C pulls all kinds of gunk out of my Solana.

[gsedlack]

I feed every other day. It is very hard to underfeed a tank

[Sugar Magnolia]

I feed once daily for the gang in my 30g. Perc, neon goby, fridmani dottyback, yasha haze goby. If you can't hang on a small mini refugium, would it be possible to use and in tank fuge? That's what I ended up doing due to lack of space on the back of my cube. I keep chaeto and dragons breath in mine. Pics of what it looks like in tank - http://www.wamas.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=27776

[dabgood21]

I don't know how much space you have but you can add a sump if you use an overflow filter system. To control your water parameters and cyano I would reduce your feeding just a bit and reduce your lighting for a few weeks till the cyano dies off. I sounds like you could also use a little skimmer too.

 

Smaller tanks are always the most difficult to care for. The more water you have the easier it is to control water parameters.

 

I have a 40 gallon breeder with a lot of live rock and corals with a 10 gallon sump, Prizm skimmer, and 1 Chemipure pouch. I rarely do water changes, I just add calcium, trace minerals and monitor my Ph, Alkalinity, Calcium, and Phosphates. Nitrates and Nitrite are never a problem with all the live rock I have.

 

Just in case you do have an overfeeding problem (Nitrates/Phosphates), making sure you have enough scavengers to clean up any excess can help a great deal. Good Luck!

[FishWife]

I have a new idea. How about mounting some kind of refugium on the wall ABOVE my tank, putting a slow pump in the back of my RSM and making an overflow in the refugium?

 

If this is a good idea, and remembering that I only am servicing a 34 gallon tank and that wall tanks are heavy, how big of a wall-mounted refugium would be is useful?

[Sugar Magnolia]

I'd go with an AGA 5.5g or 10g. The only problem with a gravity fed system like that is to be sure to put a break somehwere so the whole system doesn't overflow into your tank and onto the floor.

[bamainva]

I have a new idea. How about mounting some kind of refugium on the wall ABOVE my tank, putting a slow pump in the back of my RSM and making an overflow in the refugium?

 

If this is a good idea, and remembering that I only am servicing a 34 gallon tank and that wall tanks are heavy, how big of a wall-mounted refugium would be is useful?

 

Never had any experience with doing this..but found this picture

 

http://www.nano-reef.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=42051

[lanman]

If I didn't feed every day, Dory would come after me...

 

bob

[Hilary]

I've also been doing a lot of reading on different macros that are available for displays. There are some really interesting ones out there that are really not that invasive that can help with export with periodic trimming.

[Jon Lazar]

I have a new idea. How about mounting some kind of refugium on the wall ABOVE my tank, putting a slow pump in the back of my RSM and making an overflow in the refugium?

 

If this is a good idea, and remembering that I only am servicing a 34 gallon tank and that wall tanks are heavy, how big of a wall-mounted refugium would be is useful?

 

You can do this with as large a refugium tank as you want. Place it next to the RSM on a slightly taller stand. So long as the overflow/drain on the the refugium is higher than the RSM, it will work. You don't need the whole refugium to be higher than the RSM.

 

Jon