Production rate Typhoon III

[alan mcilvried]

I bought a T - 3 with a WAMAS group buy awhile ago and for reasons beyond explanation, I've still been lugging RO water from a friend ever since. Finally got motivated to set it up yesterday. Flushed it for 15 minutes and then ran it all night.

 

Not knowing what to expect, I ran it into a glass carboy sitting in my laundry tub, expecting that it would overflow by morning. After running all night, I had about 3 1/2 gallons of RODI product water. I measured a waste rate of about 11 gallons per hour - so I'm roughly getting 5 gallons of RODI out of 200 gallons of water.

 

Brochure says production may be slow for the first 3 days, but at this rate that will be 800 gallons of water down the drain. That's not necessarily a cost catastrophe, but more waste (or less production) than I was anticpating.

 

We have "good" water pressure. I'll have to get a guage if I need numbers, but we have plenty of pressure to run two full-on showers concurrently on the 2nd floor (and I have 3 girls, so I'd hear about it if it was a problem.) Filter is in the basement, so that's 20 ft. of head pressure on top of that.

 

What ratios are you guys getting - Product to Waste ?

 

Thanks.

 

Al

[Big Country]

I really have no idea of how much waste water I'm getting per gallon but 40 gallons of waste per gallon is definately too much. This time of year a RO unit will produce less product and more waste with the cold water but not that much waste.

 

Are you sure that you have all of the valves set to the correct positions?

Edited January 22, 2009 by Big Country

[jnguyen4007]

For me to fill something like 10 gal, it takes something like a day and half or longer this time of year. I need to get a water pressure booster so I don't have to waste quite as much water.

[Origami]

Cold water definitely slows production. I've boosted the pressure into my T3 (by boosting the house pressure at my regulator) to 70 psi. I regularly produce 30 gallons of RO/DI overnight, so I have good output. Your situation seems way outside of normal to me. Have you called the guys over at AWI? They're very happy to help determine whether or not your unit is operating properly. We had another guy here a little while back who had an issue that he posted about. I decided to drop a line to AWI myself that linked to the thread and they took it from there.... Like I said, they're more than happy to help.

Edited January 22, 2009 by Origami2547

[jnguyen4007]

In my case, the water pressure in my house had always been on the low side.

[L8 2 RISE]

looks like either the water pressure isn't high enough or the temp isn't. I run my T3 on whatever the pressure is that comes out of the tap, and at about 70-80 degrees and make 5 gallons in about an hour and a half and get 3-4 gallons of waste per gallon, that's this time of year too... It wasn't much worse than that even when I first set it up... I would check the pressure, and if that's all good, call the guys at AWI

[reefhunter]

I can get 75 gpd out of mine right now... I can fill two 35 Gallon trashcans in day. I dont want to know how much waste water I produce but I hope its not 200gpd.

[Air Water and Ice]

I bought a T - 3 with a WAMAS group buy awhile ago and for reasons beyond explanation, I've still been lugging RO water from a friend ever since. Finally got motivated to set it up yesterday. Flushed it for 15 minutes and then ran it all night.

 

Not knowing what to expect, I ran it into a glass carboy sitting in my laundry tub, expecting that it would overflow by morning. After running all night, I had about 3 1/2 gallons of RODI product water. I measured a waste rate of about 11 gallons per hour - so I'm roughly getting 5 gallons of RODI out of 200 gallons of water.

 

Brochure says production may be slow for the first 3 days, but at this rate that will be 800 gallons of water down the drain. That's not necessarily a cost catastrophe, but more waste (or less production) than I was anticpating.

 

We have "good" water pressure. I'll have to get a guage if I need numbers, but we have plenty of pressure to run two full-on showers concurrently on the 2nd floor (and I have 3 girls, so I'd hear about it if it was a problem.) Filter is in the basement, so that's 20 ft. of head pressure on top of that.

 

What ratios are you guys getting - Product to Waste ?

 

Thanks.

 

Al

 

Hello Al,

 

Normal production ratio is about 3-4 gallons of waste for every 1 gallon of pure water. Please make sure that all of the valve by the RO membrane are closed (perpendicular position). Make sure this includes the black flush valve as well.

 

What's your pressure like? Water temperature? Both of these can create a problem like what you're having. If the water is about 40 degrees, the water production gets cut in half. If you have both a water pressure and temperature problem, well.....you're definitely not going to get the water production you want and too much waste water. Just let us know and we'll try to get it working properly.

 

Regards,

Don

Air, Water & Ice LLC

[alan mcilvried]

Hello Al,

 

Normal production ratio is about 3-4 gallons of waste for every 1 gallon of pure water. Please make sure that all of the valve by the RO membrane are closed (perpendicular position). Make sure this includes the black flush valve as well.

 

What's your pressure like? Water temperature? Both of these can create a problem like what you're having. If the water is about 40 degrees, the water production gets cut in half. If you have both a water pressure and temperature problem, well.....you're definitely not going to get the water production you want and too much waste water. Just let us know and we'll try to get it working properly.

 

Regards,

Don

Air, Water & Ice LLC

 

OK, Thanks, Don. Here are the stats -

 

Pressure is a little under 65 psi.

Incoming temp is about 54 degrees. (Just checked again and it's 52) Hooked into the cold water supply.

All valves are closed except RODI output (and the input of course.)

TDS reading is 155-165 for the tap water and 0 for the RODI in 3 separate samples so it is working - just very slowly.

Been running for about 36 hours.

 

The last filter section on the left is not filling up. When I turned it on, the first 3 sections filled up very quickly, but you can see that water is just trickling down the inside of the last canister (the black one). I'm not even sure how it's coming out the product line to be honest because that canister doesn't appear to be full - unless it's wicking up the filter media. Water is coming out the waste line in a steady stream but only dripping out the product line. When I open the waste valve it shoots out very hard.

 

Since I have you, the 2nd canister is dripping slightly at the seal. I've tightned it up as much as I'm comfortable. Only a couple of drips a minute so hoping it will just seal itself, but if there's a trick, let me know.

 

Thanks

Al

Edited January 23, 2009 by alan mcilvried

[Origami]

Hmm.... I wonder if you have a bad ASOV (automatic shut off valve) or if it's hooked up right. Just a guess, but that's the component that's between my third canister and my 4th canister on my T3.

[YBeNormal]

The fourth canister may not fill up all the way, at least not at first. I would not worry about that for now. I would be concerned about the leak though. Turn off the water, release any back pressure, then remove the second canister. While you have the canister removed, take a moment to run your finger around the top of the canister to check for chips, cracks or rough areas. Clean the seals and reseat the canister. You should tighten it very snug using the supplied filter wrench.

 

The product water out will normally be a trickle, noticeably less than the waste line. As Don said (thanks for visiting again Don!), 3 or 4 to 1 is a typical waste to product ratio and the waste output can be much higher if you have low water pressure or very cold source water. 40 to 1 is not within the normal range though so something is wrong. Most Typhoon III units (not Typhoon 5-stage basic units) include a fast-flush valve. Make sure that valve is fully closed, not open as in the picture in the link. I once wasted several days of water and more hours of Don's time than I can count troubleshooting what I thought was a defective ASOV before I realized that I had left the fast-flush half open.

 

The only other thought that comes to mind is that your unit has no restrictor valve/insert, it is defective, or it is not matched to the RO membrane you have installed. If you have the same type of fast flush valve as shown in the link above, check the number imprinted on it to make sure it matches the RO membrane type. If your unit is a Typhoon III and does not have this type of fast flush valve installed, you might have a strange looking section of tubing that almost forms a rectangle. The restrictor on that setup is actually a small insert in one of the fittings and is not visible without disassembling one of the connections.

[alan mcilvried]

Well, figured it out with the help of AWI. In case anyone else has a problem, this is what they recommended.

 

First,I removed all of the filters and ran water through the empty unit with the product and flush valves open. Water flowed easily through the entire unit. Then added filters back one at a time, starting with the sediment filter and ending with the RO membrane, running water through the unit each step of the way. Water flowed freely until I installed the RO membrane, when it completetly stopped coming out the product line. AWI determined over the phone that I had a defective RO membrane.

 

They sent me a new one at no charge and no hassle (via priority mail) and two days later I'm producing RODI water at about 50-60 gallons / day. Production rate of about 5:1

 

I would reiterate what others have said on this forum. Air Water Ice is a very professional and pleasant vendor to deal with and they totally stand behind their product.

 

Al

[Origami]

Well, figured it out with the help of AWI. In case anyone else has a problem, this is what they recommended.

 

First,I removed all of the filters and ran water through the empty unit with the product and flush valves open. Water flowed easily through the entire unit. Then added filters back one at a time, starting with the sediment filter and ending with the RO membrane, running water through the unit each step of the way. Water flowed freely until I installed the RO membrane, when it completetly stopped coming out the product line. AWI determined over the phone that I had a defective RO membrane.

 

They sent me a new one at no charge and no hassle (via priority mail) and two days later I'm producing RODI water at about 50-60 gallons / day. Production rate of about 5:1

 

I would reiterate what others have said on this forum. Air Water Ice is a very professional and pleasant vendor to deal with and they totally stand behind their product.

 

Al

 

Glad that you got it worked out, Al. That's great news. Yes, AWI is great to work with. They really have great customer service.

[YBeNormal]

Thanks for letting us know what the cause of the issue was. This could happen to someone else in the future and now we know how to troubleshoot the issue. I echo your comments about AWI's customer service. They really take care of their customers!