lanman June 21, 2008 Share June 21, 2008 Without giving any hints (water parameters, etc.) - - any ideas on what could be causing the 'tips' of certain corals (3-4 of them) to lose tissue and turn white?? Thanks, bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbartco June 21, 2008 Share June 21, 2008 Burnt? Change bulbs lately? It has to be a change of some sort (I would think). Seems the more vulnerable (and lacking zooxanthellae) tips react first sometimes. I would let parameters stabilize, then snip off the ends, stimulating new growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman June 21, 2008 Author Share June 21, 2008 Burnt? Change bulbs lately? It has to be a change of some sort (I would think). Seems the more vulnerable (and lacking zooxanthellae) tips react first sometimes. I would let parameters stabilize, then snip off the ends, stimulating new growth. The only change is the addition of the calcium reactor about a month ago - and of course my calcium and alkalinity have increased. The odd thing is - that acro nana (and others) are losing their tips - while the acro valida in particular has taken off with new growth. Tank is now 6 months old - and overall looks worse than when I started it. It's a bit frustrating. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland Reefer June 21, 2008 Share June 21, 2008 Is this the tank with high nitrates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 June 21, 2008 Share June 21, 2008 Is your calcium reactor fairly stable and how do you dose kalk? I think I recall seeing you have a Reefkeeper, do you monitor your pH swings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman June 23, 2008 Author Share June 23, 2008 The calcium reactor is quite stable for about a month now - keeps the tank at 9 dkH, according to one test kit - more like 14 according to the Salifert. I have a GreySeas kalk reactor - put fresh kalk in it every 2 weeks, or when it's low. I have an AC-3, and I monitor the pH - it swings between 7.9 and 8.3. ((Yes, this is the tank with high nitrates... despite adding a refugium, and cutting way back on food - the nitrates is still at about 25.)) Keep in mind that most of these corals have been in the tank for about 6 months, and just in the last month or so have started to looks 'poorly'. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kngfisher June 23, 2008 Share June 23, 2008 Have your nitates been dropping since you added the fuge and cut back on food? How about water changes? How much and how often? what do you mean by "I have a GreySeas kalk reactor - put fresh kalk in it every 2 weeks, or when it's low." ? What method are you using to determine "low" ? pH change? media level in reactor? time? Are you careful to rinse you hands or use gloves before sticking hands in tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman June 23, 2008 Author Share June 23, 2008 Have your nitates been dropping since you added the fuge and cut back on food? How about water changes? How much and how often? what do you mean by "I have a GreySeas kalk reactor - put fresh kalk in it every 2 weeks, or when it's low." ? What method are you using to determine "low" ? pH change? media level in reactor? time? Are you careful to rinse you hands or use gloves before sticking hands in tank? The nitrates do NOT seem to have changed (maybe a LITTLE less purple) since adding the fuge and cutting the food (in half or more). Water changes in my 240 are 20 gallons every week or two weeks (depending on how busy I get). I wash my hands before I start tank work in the evening - but don't wash between the various tanks. Of course - none of the other tanks are having that kind of a problem. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman June 24, 2008 Author Share June 24, 2008 Lacking any other reasonable explanation - I am going to assume that my (more often 2 weeks than 1 week) water changes are leaving my tank short on some trace element or something like that. I am going to do twice-weekly water changes for a couple of weeks, and see if that helps. It will lower the nitrates slightly, if nothing else. I'll let y'all know. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 June 25, 2008 Share June 25, 2008 Bob, despite the lack of frequent water changes, perhaps your water quality has improved enough to bleach those coral tips? Just like adding carbon, if you improved the overall water quality and clarity through contstant drips of CA or kalk and the addition of a refugium, maybe that has bleached them? When I first added carbon to my system I bleached the heck out of a few corals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman June 25, 2008 Author Share June 25, 2008 Bob, despite the lack of frequent water changes, perhaps your water quality has improved enough to bleach those coral tips? Just like adding carbon, if you improved the overall water quality and clarity through contstant drips of CA or kalk and the addition of a refugium, maybe that has bleached them? When I first added carbon to my system I bleached the heck out of a few corals. It's not just those coral tips... Some corals deeper down in the tank are obviously distressed. Even a monti digi has lost a lot of tissue. There's just something basically wrong with my water/tank. I can't imagine a little too much nitrates would cause the problem. I am also going to dose some iodine and magnesium. I've never had this kind of trouble with the other tanks - but they do get more frequent water changes (easier to move 5 gallons around than 20). Sooner or later, I'll actually set up a good system for water changes. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctenophore June 25, 2008 Share June 25, 2008 My vote is for the 25ppm nitrates. I have noticed that when nutrients and alkalinity are both high, problems seem to happen. If alk is low with high nutrients, not as big of a deal. Could be some sort of interaction with the coral trying to grow and the nitrate causing problems with the fast-dividing growth tip cells. I'll bet if you got NO3 down to 5-10ppm the corals will respond well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowerseller June 25, 2008 Share June 25, 2008 I'd be interested in what the Ca level is in relationship to Alk and Mg. Is this a hint we can't have or I have missed it. I often find with new users to reactors or new media replacements that the Ca level changes and often goes high. If you have high Ca, mid range Alk and high nitrates, the corals can not properly use the high Ca available to them. If it was too low Alk, I'd suspect you'd see low levels of bleaching on some, but eventually many other stoney corals. High nitrates often shows up with what you're seeing but you typically have either too low or too high Ca combinded with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman June 25, 2008 Author Share June 25, 2008 I'd be interested in what the Ca level is in relationship to Alk and Mg. Is this a hint we can't have or I have missed it. I often find with new users to reactors or new media replacements that the Ca level changes and often goes high. If you have high Ca, mid range Alk and high nitrates, the corals can not properly use the high Ca available to them. If it was too low Alk, I'd suspect you'd see low levels of bleaching on some, but eventually many other stoney corals. High nitrates often shows up with what you're seeing but you typically have either too low or too high Ca combinded with it. I just wanted to get opinions without the numbers - see if there was something 'different' that someone might come up with. I will run a full set of tests (except nitrites... not sure what happened to my test kit) tonight and post them. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 June 26, 2008 Share June 26, 2008 How about phosphates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman June 26, 2008 Author Share June 26, 2008 How about phosphates? Too late to do all the tests - a friend's computer emergency got in the way. Phosphates... I really doubt it - I have NO hair algae or anything like that - though i do get little patches of cyano. LOTS of coralline on the glass; I can barely keep up with it. I have a test for phosphates, too. Will try it. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman June 27, 2008 Author Share June 27, 2008 (edited) Water parameters: Temp 81.6 Spg 1.025 pH 8.21 ammonia 0 nitrite (forgot to buy a kit) Nitrate - now closer to 50 than 25... Probably because of all the dying corals.... it's getting worse. Alkalinity - 9.8 dkH (Aquarium Systems) 13.6 dkH (Salifert) 10.08 dkH (Red Sea) Calcium - 390 Magnesium - 1170 bob Edited June 27, 2008 by lanman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 June 27, 2008 Share June 27, 2008 Just because you don't have hair algae doesn't mean you don't have phosphates. I have high phosphates in my system but have no hair algae and no cyano because of my lighting regimen and my grazers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wreck June 27, 2008 Share June 27, 2008 I hope you figure this out, I'll be tagging along to see what happens. You've got to figure out why your nitrates are up. Too much chaeto in the fuge? Detritus trapped somewhere? filter socks and media clean? Just some ideas. good luck. Wreck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHUBAKAH June 27, 2008 Share June 27, 2008 Bob, Out of curiosity more than anything, what kind of salt do you use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman June 27, 2008 Author Share June 27, 2008 Next thought... filter bags... I change them when they start to overflow (I have a 'box' in my overflow that the filter bags are in - when the filters clog, the box starts to fill up above the filter bags). That's usually about 4-5 days. is that long enough for the filter bags to become a 'nitrate factory'?? bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 June 27, 2008 Share June 27, 2008 No, it would take much longer than that. It's not as long as the initial cycle of a tank, but it's not that far behind, either. Water parameters: Temp 81.6 Spg 1.025 pH 8.21 ammonia 0 nitrite (forgot to buy a kit) Nitrate - now closer to 50 than 25... Probably because of all the dying corals.... it's getting worse. Alkalinity - 9.8 dkH (Aquarium Systems) 13.6 dkH (Salifert) 10.08 dkH (Red Sea) Calcium - 390 Magnesium - 1170 bob When are all of these measurements from? Is the temperature an average or a high? For the nitrite, I wouldn't worry about it, if ammonia is 0 and nitrates are high, then your nitrites are probably non-existent. Your dkH is all over the place, got a solid measurement that you trust for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman June 27, 2008 Author Share June 27, 2008 No, it would take much longer than that. It's not as long as the initial cycle of a tank, but it's not that far behind, either. When are all of these measurements from? Is the temperature an average or a high? For the nitrite, I wouldn't worry about it, if ammonia is 0 and nitrates are high, then your nitrites are probably non-existent. Your dkH is all over the place, got a solid measurement that you trust for it? Those measurements are from about an hour or so ago - the tank gets up to about 82 in the evening, and if it goes over - the lights shut off for 30 mins. I purchased the Red Sea kit as a 'tie breaker' between the other two... so I am guessing the Salifert is wrong?? bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctenophore June 27, 2008 Share June 27, 2008 Nitrates are killing your corals. You should do some big water changes to get everything back in line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman June 27, 2008 Author Share June 27, 2008 Nitrates are killing your corals. You should do some big water changes to get everything back in line. So, the nitrates are killing my corals, which is causing nitrates... and doing 'some big water changes' in a 240-gallon tank is probably beyond my capabilities. I'm guessing once enough corals have died, it will balance out... I have started moving some of my more favorite corals into my other tanks. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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