SkiCurtis March 13, 2008 Share March 13, 2008 Hi, I have high nitrates LIKE 60-80 . I have a 240 gallon and have gone from fish only to mixed to reef. after MACNA I bought a mini bubble king 200 and a deltec 509 carbon reactor. and took my bio balls out in the fall. After that I thought i was going to reduce my nitrates,but i have not. I feed my tank well frozen food 6 days a week and one dry day. About 1/4 cup of cubes of formula 1 and 2,prime reef,mysis shrimp,frozen cypoze,etc. yea my reef eats better than I. .My tank looks awesome everything is healthy,but high nitrates. I have 6 tangs,7 cromis 2 clowns cleaner fish,6 line,regal angel,blk and wht angel,firefish,maybe a couple more I'm forgetting. I'm getting ready to install my Pimped out new sump(NAGA) when it is done. It is a 6'X17"X14". so What I'm I doing wrong.? Thanks in advance Curtis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bprinehart March 13, 2008 Share March 13, 2008 (edited) Hi, I have high nitrates LIKE 60-80 . I have a 240 gallon and have gone from fish only to mixed to reef. after MACNA I bought a mini bubble king 200 and a deltec 509 carbon reactor. and took my bio balls out in the fall. After that I thought i was going to reduce my nitrates,but i have not. I feed my tank well frozen food 6 days a week and one dry day. About 1/4 cup of cubes of formula 1 and 2,prime reef,mysis shrimp,frozen cypoze,etc. yea my reef eats better than I. .My tank looks awesome everything is healthy,but high nitrates. I have 6 tangs,7 cromis 2 clowns cleaner fish,6 line,regal angel,blk and wht angel,firefish,maybe a couple more I'm forgetting. I'm getting ready to install my Pimped out new sump(NAGA) when it is done. It is a 6'X17"X14". so What I'm I doing wrong.? Thanks in advance Curtis How often are you performing water changes? As far as I know, the skimmer won't necessarily pull all of those 'trates out. As I'm sure with that much food it's not all reaching the skimmer. Things keep eating and then pooping I'm sure it's just a result of the food load. Not necessarily a bad thing, just means things are being eaten and/or broken down. Do you have a fuge? Some macros might help with export, or a RDSB might help out via NNR. Just my .02, but I could be full of crap for all I know. Edited March 13, 2008 by bprinehart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbuf March 13, 2008 Share March 13, 2008 I have 6 tangs,7 cromis 2 clowns cleaner fish,6 line,regal angel,blk and wht angel,firefish,maybe a couple more I'm forgetting. You answered your question right there. Thats alot of large fish producing alot of waste getting into the nitrogen cycle. Even with a great skimmer, you're still going to get some nitrate buildup. You could invest in a coil denitrator or a sulfur denitrator. I had success with a coil denitrator for a while, but it would only help keep my nitrates hovering around 40-50ppm (80-100ppm before). About a month ago I switched to a sulfur denitrator which has helped drop my nitrates to ~10ppm. Do a search for sulfur denitrator and read up on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnguyen4007 March 13, 2008 Share March 13, 2008 You answered your question right there. Thats alot of large fish producing alot of waste getting into the nitrogen cycle. Even with a great skimmer, you're still going to get some nitrate buildup. You could invest in a coil denitrator or a sulfur denitrator. I had success with a coil denitrator for a while, but it would only help keep my nitrates hovering around 40-50ppm (80-100ppm before). About a month ago I switched to a sulfur denitrator which has helped drop my nitrates to ~10ppm. Do a search for sulfur denitrator and read up on it. James, how much is a sulfur denitrator? This is the first I've heard of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkiCurtis March 13, 2008 Author Share March 13, 2008 I do turn off my main return for 1/2 hour for feeding and keep all my powerheads on. i do 40 gallon water changes 3 times a month. i think that's allot . curtis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbuf March 13, 2008 Share March 13, 2008 (edited) James, how much is a sulfur denitrator? This is the first I've heard of it. I was fortunate enough to find a Korallin Calcium reactor for only $50. A sulfur reactor is essentially the same design as a calcium reactor. I only had to buy the media which cost about $70 from premiumaquatics.com. This enabled me to turn the reactor in a sulfur denitrator. Look here The Korallins are good, but the Midwest Aquatic are essentially the same thing for a little less money. I've read that the sulfur media from Midwest Aquatic comes with trace bacteria on it, so the "commissioning" time is less. The anaerobic bacteria that grows turns nitrates into nitrogen and oxygen gas and uses sulfur for the metabolic process. I started my reactor about a month ago and you start off with a very slow drip to get the reactor into an anaerobic state. I started about one drop per second. Once the water that drips out hits 0ppm nitrate, you SLOWLY increase the flow through the reactor. If you go to quick, you'll let in too much oxygen and the bacteria colony will crash. I'm up to a flow rate that is just above a rate where you notice actual drops. Still at 0ppm for the last couple days so I'm about to increase the flow a little tonight. Edited March 13, 2008 by jamesbuf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkiCurtis March 13, 2008 Author Share March 13, 2008 Jamesbuf T hanks I did a search and found this. I did pick up some pura nitrate lock at Macna and have not used it yet.I'm thinking of puttin it in my deltec reactor and see if it will help. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage...denitrator.html or this http://www.championlighting.com/product.ph...=637&page=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite March 13, 2008 Share March 13, 2008 I'll have to check out more on this sulphur denitrator. I can't afford to get one at present but would like to "put it on my list". I have a huge struggle staying between 10 - 15 no matter what I do. I honestly don't understand how so many people are able to report zero nitrate given some of their systems and stocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbuf March 13, 2008 Share March 13, 2008 Jamesbuf T hanks I did a search and found this. I did pick up some pura nitrate lock at Macna and have not used it yet.I'm thinking of puttin it in my deltec reactor and see if it will help. http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage...denitrator.html or this http://www.championlighting.com/product.ph...=637&page=1 I've tried just about every product that claims to reduce nitrates, and found very few to work well. The only two things that I've found to work was my coil denitrator and the sulfur denitrator. I will be honest and say that I haven't tried that PURA nitratelock, so I can't comment on that, but if it was any good I'm sure they could charge waaaay more money that what they are asking. As crazy as it sounds, I did also have success with "Algone" when it first came out a couple years ago. I had it on my old 125gal and it really did lower my nitrates alot. I had mostly a FOWLR tank back then, with a huge amount of fish, so my nitrates were really high. I didn't make any other changes at the time, and the only thing I could attribute the drop in nitrates to was the Algone. Can't remember actual numbers, but I remember testing my nitrates at first and the API kit would almost instantly turn red after dripping in the second reagent. After a couple weeks I had to actually wait to see what color the tests would turn. I wished I could remember the actually numbers. Those packets smell like complete dung when they are exhausted too. You'll know when its time for replacement. I was impressed enough to order a few boxes for my folks for their cichlid tank. Unfortunately it didn't work anywhere near as good in freshwater. I still have the packets and plan on using it on my new FOWLR tank I just setup a couple weeks ago. I'll have to check out more on this sulphur denitrator. I can't afford to get one at present but would like to "put it on my list". I have a huge struggle staying between 10 - 15 no matter what I do. I honestly don't understand how so many people are able to report zero nitrate given some of their systems and stocking. I complete agree Forrest. I really don't see how anyone has zero nitrates. Unless you have a really light fish load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbartco March 13, 2008 Share March 13, 2008 1/4 cup? anyone else think that high? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbuf March 13, 2008 Share March 13, 2008 1/4 cup? anyone else think that high? I completely missed that one. THat is a butt load of flakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gastone March 13, 2008 Share March 13, 2008 Is that (1/4) per day, or per week? If that's daily, that's a lot, a whole lot. First I'd cut back feeding significantly. You don't mention anything about a DSB or refugium. If you don't have one, a RDSB can be set up for a minimal amount of money (<$25 easy). The investment is minimal and if it works, great. If it doesn't, it won't be the first, nor the last $25 that you waste on the hobby. If that's still not working you can look into some fancy-schmancy deluxe-denitrator reactor thingy. G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbuf March 13, 2008 Share March 13, 2008 Is that (1/4) per day, or per week? If that's daily, that's a lot, a whole lot. First I'd cut back feeding significantly. You don't mention anything about a DSB or refugium. If you don't have one, a RDSB can be set up for a minimal amount of money (<$25 easy). The investment is minimal and if it works, great. If it doesn't, it won't be the first, nor the last $25 that you waste on the hobby. If that's still not working you can look into some fancy-schmancy deluxe-denitrator reactor thingy. G. Oh, I completely forgot about that. Those remote DSBs do work really well also. I used a 42gal hexagon tank as a remote DSB and it really got my nitrates down on my old 180gal. I probably had 200+ lbs of sand in that tank, with the DSB being about 20" tall. I probably over did it a little. Supposedly you only need a 5gallon bucket for it to work properly, but I already had the 42gallon plumbed into the system as a refugium, so all I need to do was add sand. After using many different ways to lower nitrates, so far the best and easiest way is the sulfur denitrator. I'm still a new user though, so I can't give long term results yet. And for those who are interested, here is a great thread on a NJ reef site. Thank Dan, not me. He's the one that gave the link to me. http://www.njreefers.org/joomla/index.php?...p;topic=4537.45 There are links to cheaper calcium reactors that people are using for these reactors. Then you just buy the sulfur media separately. If that's still not working you can look into some fancy-schmancy deluxe-denitrator reactor thingy. Don't be a hater Garrett. Shouldn't you be looking for your keys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland Reefer March 13, 2008 Share March 13, 2008 I had the same problem with nitrates as you are having now. I started adding fish and my nitrates in my 120 gallon system reached about 80 ppm and just stayed there. I am dosing my top-off with kalk. I read articles about adding vinegar to the kalk to decrease the nitrate levels. So I tried it and it has reduced my nitrate levels down to about 25 ppm. Now I am thinking about adding a DSB to the system to see what that will do. I would be curious as to how much the DSB will reduce the nitrate levels. Just my two cents. Also, I am learning with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite March 14, 2008 Share March 14, 2008 (edited) DSB has been on my list of things to do. I am going to switch to a 20 for a fuge because right now Im using a 38 for both sump and fuge together , and am wondering if the 20 is a high and not a long will it be enough space to put a DSB under my macros. All this stuff has to be in the livingroom so I seriously need to not be adding all kinds of tanks and tubs and buckets. Edited March 14, 2008 by treesprite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland Reefer March 14, 2008 Share March 14, 2008 (edited) DSB has been on my list of things to do. I am going to switch to a 20 for a fuge because right now Im using a 38 for both sump and fuge together , and am wondering if the 20 is a high and not a long will it be enough space to put a DSB under my macros. All this stuff has to be in the livingroom so I seriously need to not be adding all kinds of tanks and tubs and buckets. From what I have read, you will probably want about 6" of the sand. It seems to me that you would be better off with the 20 high. Edited March 14, 2008 by Highland Reefer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
traveller7 March 14, 2008 Share March 14, 2008 The Sulfur Denitrator thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...mp;pagenumber=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland Reefer March 14, 2008 Share March 14, 2008 (edited) Denitrator thread: That's going in my favorites. Edited March 14, 2008 by Highland Reefer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbuf March 14, 2008 Share March 14, 2008 The Sulfur Denitrator thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...mp;pagenumber=1 Nice. Didn't know about that one. Glad I only paid $50 for my Korallin or I'd be ticked right now. We've done DIY Kalk reactor build parties before in this club. I can't remember, but I think Chip might have been the leader/organizer. Somebody should start another build party for the reactor listed in RC thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grav March 14, 2008 Share March 14, 2008 I have a customer with a 180 and 7 tangs. He "over feeds" with 3 feedings a day of 3 cubes with each feeding, plus dry nori 2x per day. His nitrates are high when they get to 5 or 7, resulting in 20% water changes about one time a month. A good skimmer is key in preventing nitrates and I feel that the greatest way to reduce nitrates is a Fuge. They pull out a lot more gallon per gallon than a RDSB or anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbuf March 14, 2008 Share March 14, 2008 I thought bubble kings were supposed to be great skimmers. Can you post a pic of the skimmate you're getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkiCurtis March 14, 2008 Author Share March 14, 2008 I just wanted to thank everyone who responded and those links are very helpful. I'm not sure how to do the quote thing. I might Have made a mistake in the feeding it is less than a 1/4 cup but i would say = to 6 or 7 cubes a day.so It's still to much. So i will reduce my feeding. I going through allot of upgrades on my system right now. (NEW sump,litre meter doser for kalk stirrer and a calcium reactor. I'm working with Jeff to help pay off some of this stuff. I might have to build a 6'X 5"X 18" fuge do you think that will be large enough to take the nitrates down. My sump is to narrow for a fuge Jeff Says so i will have to build it on top of the tank as a different system. Curtis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gastone March 14, 2008 Share March 14, 2008 Sounds good Curtis. Keep us appraised of what you are doing to reduce your nitrates and let us know how it's working. Garrett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edkruzel March 15, 2008 Share March 15, 2008 A DSB has been my best nitrate eliminator; but you have to have it large enough for the volume of water you keep. A tank of 100gal or more with something like a CPR hang on fuge will not do squat for reducing the nutrient load. Next a DSB must be maintained properly, if you keep sand stirrers (Valenciennea sp. Sand Sifting Stars, Hermit Crabs) or fauna predators it will decimate the small creatures needed to keep the bed active and therefore should be linked through a remote system and not in the main tank. Next is having enough alternating current in your tank to keep detritus suspended long enough to be sent to the sump or other mechanical filtration. Food is another great source of nitrate and not just the amount. Most frozen foods should be rinsed to eliminate excess nutrients (like allowing oil to drip off freshly cooked bacon or fries before consumption) and dried foods are nothing but nutrient builders. To be processed all food must be dried but then binders, fillers and occasionally artificial colors are added. It is the later process that cannot be digested and adds copious amounts of waste to the system. Dried foods are good to keep on hand when a busy schedule has you running out the door just as you remember the fish need to eat, but like our fast foods, it should be minimal. The last source and often overlooked would be the replacement water used for evaporation. Many treated water sources still contain nutrients. I haven't set my RO/DI up yet in this new place, and since I'm only running a nano, I use distilled water from Wal-Mart. Even though it's distilled it still registers between 15-25 TDS. My RO/DI never went above 3 TDS. As a good friend preaches, "More Biology and Less Technology". Find and eliminate the cause instead of trying to cure the symptom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquariareview March 16, 2008 Share March 16, 2008 Your answer is easy You are overfeeding the tank by a large margin. No device will fix the problem as long as you continue You need to: [*] cut the 1/4 cup to 1/16 cup [*]feed every other day (not every day) [*]make your own food (anyone of the officers has a good recipe) [*]Shut off your pumps and target feed all of your critters. This keeps all of your waste levels low. [*]Clean out the skimmer so it can work right. Mix 2 tablespoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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