I want this to work

[flowerseller]

I really want to feed my new frag tank with one of the overflows from my display.

It works great and the flow is exactly the amount I want.

Problem is bubbles.

 

I thought that by allowing it to flow down and then come up, I might ( I had really hoped)

be able to pull it off by breaking the bubbles and aloowing it flow into the FT.

I love it but will have to remove it unless I can correct the bubbles.

 

The other thought I had was to put a bulk head into the side of the tank and run a T with one part of the T feeding the tank and the other going above the FT water line.

Kind of like a reverse durso.

 

IDEAS?

[jamesbuf]

Use a filter sock on the outflow? It would help prevent detritus buildup in your frag tank too.

[flowerseller]

Not really practical but thanks.

[jamesbuf]

I would go with the reverse durso then. Its working great in my sump.

Edited February 18, 2008 by jamesbuf

[traveller7]

The other thought I had was to put a bulk head into the side of the tank and run a T with one part of the T feeding the tank and the other going above the FT water line.

Kind of like a reverse durso.

 

IDEAS?

If the bulkhead sucks air at the top, you get a micro bubble action on the intake. To avoid, raise the other bulk head a bit (45 degree fitting on the inside should be enough) and use a valve to back off the frag tank input to proper flow rate until it is full submerged. Make sure to have enough flow available in the other down pipe to handle the extra flow.

 

If the bulkhead is not sucking air on the intake, i.e. it is already fully submerged, you'll be better off putting a tee on the frag tank side. Say a 1.5-2" feeding a 3-4" fitting, top of the T open, and the bottom either a reducer or a cap. If necessary, force the water to flow through another T and down another 12" sort of like a bubble trap in a sump.

 

Good luck

[NAGA]

Chip,

 

I think you might think along the lines of diffusing the impact that is created from the water coming in from the drain. 1) A valve inline on that side 2) some sort of diffuser plate where the water comes into the tank.

 

 

Those are two thoughts right off the top of my head.....................another cup of coffee or two and I may have another

[flowerseller]

I guess I need more coffee since I was up so "late for me" last night.

 

I just woke up, and gotta open my shop.

[NRehman]

Chip,

Try having the return water pour into another 'mini-sump' which then feeds the frag tank. Also, putting a coarse filter sock at the supply end of the frag tank, with a cut opening in the bottom, will become a pretty good diffuser in a few days.

[dandy7200]

Replace ell with a tee. Bottom of tee to 1" reducer bushing to 1" valve to sump. Side of tee to frag tank.

 

Edited February 18, 2008 by dandy7200

[NAGA]

Now this is one ugly valve but, if you just close it enough to slow the flow I think it's an easy thing to change. Dan's idea is also a good one.

 

[extreme_tooth_decay]

I'm very interested in this, I'm planning to do exactly the same thing when I set up my mantis tank.

 

I had been planning to do it just like Dan recommended, so I can control the amount of flow to the mantis tank via the valve.

 

I guess I don't see how this is going to help with bubbles, though.

 

If the water coming in has bubbles in it, isn't it just going to go straight through the Tee to the frag tank like it is now? How does the Tee help dissipate the bubbles?

 

thanks

tim

[lanman]

Just talk to Davelin ... I'm sure he can come up with a solution. One which includes several rubbermaid containers, 10-foot runs of PVC, and a half-dozen valves.

 

bob

[davelin315]

I think that your problem is that you're not allowing the air to escape near the end where the bubbles have formed together. Have never tested this out, and not sure if this is what you meant by a reverse durso, but I think your problem is that the air is staying in the line the entire time (I would think that the reverse durso would still be putting air into your line), so you need to let it come out. The problem I see with Dan's idea is that it doesn't appear that the air will escape. If you put an open T closer to the tank, with the T sideways, like in Dan's drawing, I would think that the air would have a chance to escape as long as you put a riser that goes all the way to the top, above your system. This would prevent a flood and also allow the water to escape. If you do this and then increase the pipe diameter on the other side, I would think that you would slow down flow enough to remove bubbles from the line and get less in your frag tank. I don't think you can fully eliminate them, but it should reduce them significantly. You could also have it drain into an open box which then drains into the tank, allowing the bubbles to come out. Essentially, you're putting baffles into the return to your frag tank.

[FishWife]

I think that your problem is that you're not allowing the air to escape near the end where the bubbles have formed together. Have never tested this out, and not sure if this is what you meant by a reverse durso, but I think your problem is that the air is staying in the line the entire time (I would think that the reverse durso would still be putting air into your line), so you need to let it come out. The problem I see with Dan's idea is that it doesn't appear that the air will escape. If you put an open T closer to the tank, with the T sideways, like in Dan's drawing, I would think that the air would have a chance to escape as long as you put a riser that goes all the way to the top, above your system. This would prevent a flood and also allow the water to escape. If you do this and then increase the pipe diameter on the other side, I would think that you would slow down flow enough to remove bubbles from the line and get less in your frag tank. I don't think you can fully eliminate them, but it should reduce them significantly. You could also have it drain into an open box which then drains into the tank, allowing the bubbles to come out. Essentially, you're putting baffles into the return to your frag tank.

 

This would concur with our experience. Our skimmer in the 80g was up high on a shelf, and we had microbubbles galore until we opened it up using (in your case) an upside-down T, left open to the air (put an extension to make sure it doesn't overflow). It's ugly, but it did work. 'Course, Dan and others probably know better than we do!

[davelin315]

 

Here's what I meant. If you place the T inline after your P trap (I thought at first you would need to remove it as I feel it will only churn up your water more, but it should provide for decreased flow due to friction, thereby slowing the water and allowing the bubbles to escape and band together more) and increase the pipe diameter to slow down the flow, you theoretically should allow for air to escape the line. The 2nd drawing would, in my opinion, allow more air to escape as it would allow air to float up into the air vent while allowing the water to flow down via gravity to the frag tank.

[dschflier]

am I the only one who dosn't know how to use Photshop? My 40gallon breeder recieves most of its water from gravity feed from my 90 refugium. I have an air vent where the water leaves from the 90 gallon and then to disperse the waterI have a T , which kinda looks like this 'T' The T at the 40 has a bunch of holes drilled in it. This allows the water to disperse into the tank with no air bubble issue. I will try and work on my picture by actually taking a photo.

Edited February 18, 2008 by dschflier

[flowerseller]

am I the only one who dosn't know how to use Photshop?

Hey Dave,

You and I can't use it but you could draw it in crayon and then you can fax it to me.

 

I was toying with Davelins figure #2 when i first mentioned it above.

 

If I put a bulkhead below the water line of the frag and run the T higher, I think it might allow the bubbles to disperse. Or do this but have another drop that's always full after the T but runs into the tank and the end. Under the water line.

[dandy7200]

I'm very interested in this, I'm planning to do exactly the same thing when I set up my mantis tank.

 

I had been planning to do it just like Dan recommended, so I can control the amount of flow to the mantis tank via the valve.

 

I guess I don't see how this is going to help with bubbles, though.

 

If the water coming in has bubbles in it, isn't it just going to go straight through the Tee to the frag tank like it is now? How does the Tee help dissipate the bubbles?

 

thanks

tim

 

 

Not really. The piping diagram I drew prevents bubbles from entering in the first place rather than figuring out what to do with them. This is how you gravity feed skimmers as well.

 

Chip, if you know the GPH of your drains then you can calculate what size piping to use. If you don't then put the big valve on the drain like Scott said, and Jeff drew.

[flowerseller]

Dan, was that a diagram? I thought it was an arrow pointing out how dirty the area around the door knob was.

 

I say "was" because I went home at lunch and cleaned it.

 

I'll be fiddling with it tomorrow or Wednesday and report back.

Any other ideas?.

[NAGA]

 

 

I had been planning to do it just like Dan recommended, so I can control the amount of flow to the mantis tank via the valve.

 

I guess I don't see how this is going to help with bubbles, though.

 

If the water coming in has bubbles in it, isn't it just going to go straight through the Tee to the frag tank like it is now? How does the Tee help dissipate the bubbles?

 

thanks

tim

 

The bubbles are brought into the water column via the impact. Putting the valve inline thusly slowing the amount of water impacting into that water column. IMO a tee where air can vent doesnt do anything because your still going to get the bubble from the same volume of water impacting from above going into the frag tank. Slowing water flow into it really takes care of the problem.

 

Jeff

[extreme_tooth_decay]

Not really. The piping diagram I drew prevents bubbles from entering in the first place rather than figuring out what to do with them. This is how you gravity feed skimmers as well.

 

Chip, if you know the GPH of your drains then you can calculate what size piping to use. If you don't then put the big valve on the drain like Scott said, and Jeff drew.

 

 

I see. I keep forgetting those pipes aren't full of water, but half full of air sloshing around, making bubbles.

 

It seems like there's a big difference between Jeff's and Dan's ideas: Jeff's restricts the entire tube, but Dan's allows an unrestricted path with original diameter pipe through to the frag tank if needed. I intentionally over-sized my tubes just to be safe in case one of them got clogged, I wouldn't want to make a choke point with a valve, effectively reducing the GPH of the overflow. I like having that extra capacity for safety.

 

In my case, by the time I would be able to put a Tee in, the water would already have fallen 6-10 feet since my sump is in my basement. So, if I Tee off my drain line 8 feet down like Dan recommended, do you think I'll still have bubbles because it's already fallen so far and sloshed around so much?

 

thanks guys

tim

[flowerseller]

 

 

 

In my case, by the time I would be able to put a Tee in, the water would already have fallen 6-10 feet since my sump is in my basement. So, if I Tee off my drain line 8 feet down like Dan recommended, do you think I'll still have bubbles because it's already fallen so far and sloshed around so much?

 

thanks guys

tim

 

 

 

Hey, is this now about you Tim ?

[extreme_tooth_decay]

Hey, is this now about you Tim ?

 

I want to benefit from your pain like everyone else!

[davelin315]

Hey, is this now about you Tim ?

Chip, you know it's never about you anymore.

[flowerseller]

Chip, you know it's never about you anymore.

Say it aint so Moma, say it aint so.

 

 

 

I want to benefit from your pain like everyone else!

 

 

Get in line Timothy, taint that the truth.