Green Hair Algae

[st9z]

I can't tell how much i have been struggling to get rid of this thing. It seems like a never ending battle. The past six months I have been doing the following to get rid of it and nothing has help. I need some new suggestions on any product or livestock i can put in to get rid of this monster.

 

what ive tried with no success

1. Phos ban

2. Seaclem with 50% active carbon 50% phosphate remover

3. Yellow tang that wont eat it

4. Lawnmover blenny wont eat it

5. 30 blue leg hermit crab that are too busy killing each other then eating the GHA

6. Sea Hare wont eat it but likes to travel a LOT

7. Refugium with caulpra (grows a lot of caulpra but still not enough to kill the GHA nutrition supply)

 

 

anybody that can answer my prayers?

[extreme_tooth_decay]

I can't tell how much i have been struggling to get rid of this thing. It seems like a never ending battle. The past six months I have been doing the following to get rid of it and nothing has help. I need some new suggestions on any product or livestock i can put in to get rid of this monster.

 

what ive tried with no success

1. Phos ban

2. Seaclem with 50% active carbon 50% phosphate remover

3. Yellow tang that wont eat it

4. Lawnmover blenny wont eat it

5. 30 blue leg hermit crab that are too busy killing each other then eating the GHA

6. Sea Hare wont eat it but likes to travel a LOT

7. Refugium with caulpra (grows a lot of caulpra but still not enough to kill the GHA nutrition supply)

anybody that can answer my prayers?

 

 

I had the same problem and I tried 1 (well, phosAR, but same difference),5 (blue, red, and scarlet),6 (half a dozen),7 (huge) above with no effect at all. I gave all of those efforts plenty of time to work. Nada.

 

What worked for me in the end was I got a small Kole and a small Hippo (from Roozens), both of whom picked at it constantly. It was mostly gone in 1-2 weeks. I know it was gone due to grazing because the only patches left after a while were the cracks where no one could fit. I also got a bunch of turbos, which may have helped.

 

Once it was gone, it never came back (the Kole was murdered shortly after the HA was gone. Still have the hippo)

 

tim

Edited September 25, 2007 by extreme_tooth_decay

[jamesbuf]

How long has the tank been setup?

Are you using an RO/DI filter?

What sized tank do you have and what skimmer?

 

I had crazy hair algae problems before I started using a RO/DI filter which is why I ask. That decreased the amount of GHA to about 25% of what it was before. After upgrading to a better skimmer I kicked the rest out as well.

[st9z]

How long has the tank been setup?

Are you using an RO/DI filter?

What sized tank do you have and what skimmer?

 

I had crazy hair algae problems before I started using a RO/DI filter which is why I ask. That decreased the amount of GHA to about 25% of what it was before. After upgrading to a better skimmer I kicked the rest out as well.

I've been using RO/DI water.

Tank has been setup since April 07

I have a 55 gallon with a CPR BakPak. What kind of skimmer are you using?

 

I had the same problem and I tried 1 (well, phosAR, but same difference),5 (blue, red, and scarlet),6 (half a dozen),7 (huge) above with no effect at all. I gave all of those efforts plenty of time to work. Nada.

 

What worked for me in the end was I got a small Kole and a small Hippo (from Roozens), both of whom picked at it constantly. It was mostly gone in 1-2 weeks. I know it was gone due to grazing because the only patches left after a while were the cracks where no one could fit. I also got a bunch of turbos, which may have helped.

 

Once it was gone, it never came back (the Kole was murdered shortly after the HA was gone. Still have the hippo)

 

tim

 

 

hmm maybe ill try trading my yellow tang for a hippo then.....

[jamesbuf]

I've been using RO/DI water.

Tank has been setup since April 07

I have a 55 gallon with a CPR BakPak. What kind of skimmer are you using?

hmm maybe ill try trading my yellow tang for a hippo then.....

 

At the time I was using a Berlin turbo HOB skimmer. I then went to using a sump and a ETSS downdraft skimmer. It was amazing to see the crap that the skimmer pulled out of my tank. When it comes to hang on the back skimmers, there really aren't any that are great skimmers. Some are definitely better than others, but none can come anywhere close the real in-sump skimmers. I can guarantee that the backpack isn't cutting it, especially since you seem to have some large fish in there.

 

I would personally trade the Yellow tank for a bristletooth tank, like a Kole or Convict, since they are more likely to pick at and clean the rock. Hippos are good too though.

[st9z]

Are Kole and convicts reef safe and shrimp safe?

[jamesbuf]

Are Kole and convicts reef safe and shrimp safe?

 

I've had them both in the past and they are completely reef safe.

[Black Mammoth]

Try some Blue Knuckled Crabs. They did wonders in my tank. I got my at Fins & Feathers. Also, my Magnificent Foxface loves that stuff. However, my last one never touched it. I've heard that other Foxface's will eat it. Like I said, the Blue Knuckled Crabs mowed that stuff down. FWIW I have 0 phosphates in my tank and 0 phosphates in my source water. Mine came back after my tank cycled. I cycled the tank on setup and then again after my crash.

[zotzer]

My potter's angel ate what little I had (growing on my hob fuge outlet). It's amazing that you've tried so many algae mowers and nothing has worked. Maybe it will force you to get to the root of the problem. It doesn't grow from nowhere.

 

Good luck!

Tracy

[st9z]

i tried getting to the root of the problem...no luck there as well. I've used PhosBan and Seaclem. Is there anything else i can do to get rid of phosphates?

[extreme_tooth_decay]

I think getting to the root of the problem won't help you. I think that's a common myth regarding HA.

 

In my experience, once you have it, the root of the problem is no help in getting rid of it.

 

Also, once it's gone, it probably won't come back unless re-introduced (mine didn't, and I didn't change anything about my tank params).

 

tim

[fab]

I've been using RO/DI water.

 

Do you have a silica buster DI cartridge on your RO/DI system? Silica is a hard substance to remove unless you are an algae plant. It is another substance that supports their growth.

 

fab

[Rascal]

I think getting to the root of the problem won't help you. I think that's a common myth regarding HA.

 

I have to disagree that it's a myth. I think in most situations getting to the root of the problem is the first step in finding a solution -- it's just not always the last step.

 

If you have algae you have excess nutrients. It may be something you're adding (source water, feeding) or it may even be leaching from the rocks. In either case, you need to make sure you aren't adding any more nutrients than are necessary to feed your inhabitants, and do everything you can to maximize export. The latter can and should include at a minimum frequent water changes and a good skimmer. If you get nitrate down to 0 and you still don't see any die off, then I think GFO in a reactor is a good idea. For me, working up to running massive amounts of it changed very frequently is what finally turned the tide of the battle, but as you have read others have found similar success with other things.

 

The best advice I could give is to attack on all fronts. Good RO/DI water. Frequent water changes. Good skimmer. Don't overfeed. Get a reactor and run a high quality GFO (granular ferris oxide: rowaphos, phosar, puraphos, phosban, etc. . . ). Export macro algae in a refugium.

 

Having said all that, I do agree that once you have hair algae it can be difficult to get rid of even after you have done everything you can to achieve pristine water quality. That's where manual removal and herbivores come in.

 

Don't look for the miracle cure -- that one creature that just lives to eat your algae and will cover up any and all mistakes you might make. Don't rush to get rid of your yellow tang just because someone said their hippo was better. Yellows are great algae grazers. IME Koles are slightly better. Hippos are not bad either but need a bigger tank and are more prone to ich. Get lots of snails of different varieties (my favorites are nerites, ceriths, trochus, and stomatella). Once you solve the nutrient problem and remove as much as you can by hand, a tang and a lot of snails should keep it in check.

 

Lastly, give it time. Settle on a plan, follow through with it, and then give it some time to bear fruit before rushing on to the next thing.

 

Good luck.

Edited September 26, 2007 by Rascal

[st9z]

I have to disagree that it's a myth. I think in most situations getting to the root of the problem is the first step in finding a solution -- it's just not always the last step.

 

If you have algae you have excess nutrients. It may be something you're adding (source water, feeding) or it may even be leaching from the rocks.

 

Can flat worm cause GHA? Is that what you mean by leaching?

 

high quality GFO (granular ferris oxide: rowaphos, phosar, puraphos, phosban, etc. . . )

 

anyone of them better than the other?

 

as for water changes i do a 5 gallon water change every 2 weeks with everyother day ro top off. Also every other day i add the bionic mix of cal, alk, and mag. Is that consider too much nutrition in the water?

 

 

thanks for your help

 

Do you have a silica buster DI cartridge on your RO/DI system? Silica is a hard substance to remove unless you are an algae plant. It is another substance that supports their growth.

 

fab

 

i have no idea. i have a coralife 50gpd ro system not sure if there is a silica buster cartridge.

[PupChow]

I feel your pain because I am fighting the same war right now.

 

I also tried:

 

1) sea hare - got the dwarf type, apparently not the type that likes HA

2) foxface - did not touch the stuff... might be cause of the aggressive clowns I have

3) vietnamese hermits - no luck

4) tiger turbo, turbo snails - might have eat a little bit, not not enough to make a huge impact

5) yellow tang - currently in tank, picks at tiny pieces but not really mowing them down

 

I notice the HA are also growing out of detritus on the sand, my next plan is to step up the flow and see if it helps... I have two SEIOS 820 pushing the water in my 65g and just picked up a wavemaker and I am planning to add two maxijets onto it and create more chaotic flow. I will report back if it helps...

 

PS - I ALMOST picked up a lettuce nudi this past weekend from Congressional. But had the folks there put some HA right in front of the nudi... the nudi "sniffed" it and passed right along, so I passed on the nudi.

 

Great thread, I will be watching this one for ideas!

[Brian Ward]

You're not alone. I'm fighting this in my nano, which is probably even harder. There's no room for a skimmer or reactor and the fish that are recommended - tangs and angels - are too big for the tank. I am running a fuge, I have run a skimmer in the past but had a lot of problems with my water levels. I scrub and siphon, and water change, and I've ony ever used RO/DI water. I've increased flow, reoriented my power heads multiple times, but still cannot find a positioning that keeps the detritus in suspension so it can be filtered. I've done tons of CUC with little to no luck. My emerald crab disappeared. I've ordered a couple fish that are supposed to feed on it - a yellow pygmy angel and a court jester goby. I think I'm going to start dosing vodka. It will help fuel the bacteria that process nitrates - the other nutrient HA feeds on:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php#10

Good luck to all.

[mling]

My FOWLR tank never had GHA before the crash early this summer. I had it running for about 3 years before that. After the crash, I have been having major GHA issues. I thought the Yellow Tang and huge (2") red leg hermit I had in my previous setup keep GHA at bay so I bought both again. Don't seem to work this time around. The hermit did clean the substrate of GHA though. The Tonga branching LR was still filled with it. WAS because last night I did manual cleaning -> tooth brushed most LR.

 

I now see my Yellow tang picking at the remaining, much less dense, GHA. I am hoping that the previous GHA was too dense and overwhelming for the Tang to handle. That now that I have done some of the work, the Tang and hermit can do the rest.

[st9z]

if you Aggregate the sand bed can that trigger a cycle to start over again?

[Rascal]

Can flat worm cause GHA? Is that what you mean by leaching?

anyone of them better than the other?

 

as for water changes i do a 5 gallon water change every 2 weeks with everyother day ro top off. Also every other day i add the bionic mix of cal, alk, and mag. Is that consider too much nutrition in the water?

thanks for your help

i have no idea. i have a coralife 50gpd ro system not sure if there is a silica buster cartridge.

 

1) water changes

Test your newly mixed saltwater for NO3 and PO4. If it doesn't test 0 for both you need to figure out where the nutrients are coming from and eliminate fix that problem. Assuming your new saltwater is good, I would increase to your water change schedule to 2X per week for a while.

 

2) Phosphates

 

By leaching I mean your rock itself may have absorbed a lot of phosphate over time and is slowly releasing it when the level of PO4 in the water reaches a certain level. I am pretty sure this is what happened in my tank. It was severely overfed and underwater changed for about 10 months in '04-'05 while I was away, so even when I set up a new tank, all of the rock that I had transferred from my old tank was still leaching phosphates. After fixing every other possible cause I could think of, and making sure I had enough herbivores in the system, I decided to try extreme use of GFO and water changes coupled with aggressive manual removal. For a while I was running 1000gm of GFO at a time through 2 separate reactors, changing out 500gm every week (I worked up to these levels gradually, though). I also did a 10-15% water change once or twice a week. Once the levels dropped I was able to keep them low without using so much of the stuff. Now I only run 300-400 gm at a time and it has been 2 months since I changed it.

 

Caveat: If you haven't first made sure that you are not adding any excess phosphates from overfeeding and/or source water, and also made sure your nitrates are low or undetectable, you will be wasting your money on GFO and a reactor IMO.

 

For more info on the use of GFO to control phosphates -- I highly recommend this Reefcentral "Thread of the Month" -- http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...mp;pagenumber=1

 

Oh, and I'm not sure what you mean by "aggregate", but don't mess with that sand!

[st9z]

thanks Rascal...

 

i think i am going to try and get a phosphate reactor and see if i can put a stop to this madness

[extreme_tooth_decay]

I'll just chime in once more with my own experience and the experience of some others. You'll find that this is a subject not everyone is in agreement about (and since so many people have the problem, that's an indication that there is no easy solution). Of course getting rid of excess nutrients is wise, but that may or may not help your problem.

 

I went for *several months* under the belief that getting rid of the nutrients would get rid of the HA. Not saying others haven't done that successfully, but I can tell you for a fact that won't help everyone. I tested everything, all my water had 0 TDS, 0 PO4, 0 NO3...and I did tons of water changes...for months. I also fed my fish darn near nothing during this period. I also set up a phosphate reactor. For *months*. Nada. Nada. Nada. In the end, I think there was more than when I started.

 

Again, the key for me was getting rid of it, then it never came back. Starving it to get rid of it was completely innefective, and I tried everything, tried hard, tested carefully, and gave it plenty of time. I can tell you I have read several similar accounts online. My advice: make sure your nutrients are under control, but dont think that will solve it. Keep trying until you get something that eats it.

 

Oh and FYI: be careful with a phosphate reactor. many a tank nuking has been caused by them. read up on that carefully and be sure to read the part about using 1/2 or 1/4 the recommended amount of media at first.

 

Here is a sea hare success story if anyone is interested (with interesting pics after only 20 minutes). Sea hares didn't work for me, but this guy is using the big ones, I had the dwarfs: SEA_HARES

 

Another success story about that particular hare here, including where to buy them: LINK

 

I was mighty irritated in the end having wasted so much time, effort, and money following what is admittedly the conventional wisdom. After I found something that picked at it constantly, it was totally gone in 2 weeks.

 

good luck,

tim

Edited September 26, 2007 by extreme_tooth_decay

[Rascal]

I actually think our advice is more similar than not. Once the hair algae takes hold it is very difficult to get rid of. Your best bet is to go with a comprehensive approach involving both nutrient control and herbivores.

[jamal]

i would agree with the attack on all fronts strategy. i have a yellow tang that prefers bloodworms to hair algae. in the end picking it off by hand and nutrient control and an urchin has worked in conjunction. i havent heard anyone mentioning urchins as an option. why is that?

[Grav]

Algae requires a few things to thrive.

 

Nitrates, Phosphates and light.

 

Nitrates and Phos are the result of an imballance in the amount of food going into the system and the ability of the filtration process to export the waste.

 

If you have NA you are producing nitrates.

 

HOWEVER, you are prolly testing zero for nitrates because the HA is consuming it.

 

Increase filtration and/or reduce feedings.

 

Turbo snails

 

Mithrax crabs

 

cutting back the light could help too.

[fab]

i have a coralife 50gpd ro system not sure if there is a silica buster cartridge.

 

No. You do not have a silica buster.

 

 

fab