danskim August 27, 2007 Share August 27, 2007 (edited) Display: - 96x31.5x24.5 in 3/4 glass. Front and right panes are PPG Starphire. It is built by GlassCages. - 1" SSB. - 2 x 1.5" drains Lighting: - 2 ATI Powermodul 8x54w - 2 types of spotlights to come - MH and LED Circulation: - 2 x Tunze 6200, 1 x 6100, 1 x 6212 Wavebox on 7095 Multicontroller - 1 x Tunze 6080 - AquaMedic OR6500 return on WavySea (Approximately 17,000gph or 55-60x turnover) Skimmer: - ATI BM250 -> ATB L in a few weeks Sump/Refugium: - 75g sump - 30g refugium Miscellaneous: - Remote DSB - 20g Brute - Octopus Dual Calcium Reactor - Two Phosban reactors - AC Jr - DC8 and DC4 -> ReefKeeper Elite in the near future Edited March 14, 2008 by danskim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason the filter freak August 27, 2007 Share August 27, 2007 Nice tank, can't wait to see that up and running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigJPDC August 27, 2007 Share August 27, 2007 nice lookin' stand. I always get nervous when I see notched 2x4's, glad to see you used the whole board. Good luck, jp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBeNormal August 28, 2007 Share August 28, 2007 It's also good to see a not-so-overly-built stand. It amazes me to see folks doubling or even tripling up 2x6's "just to be safe". Your stand has way more than enough support and the only places doubled up are where the nailer boards are required. Good job! BTW, those boards look very square. Did you trim/joint/plane them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbuf August 28, 2007 Share August 28, 2007 Only the two overflows on the one side? How large are the holes and how much will it be rated for?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danskim August 28, 2007 Author Share August 28, 2007 (edited) It's also good to see a not-so-overly-built stand. It amazes me to see folks doubling or even tripling up 2x6's "just to be safe". Your stand has way more than enough support and the only places doubled up are where the nailer boards are required. Good job! BTW, those boards look very square. Did you trim/joint/plane them? Thanks. To be honest, I am also used to seeing overbuilt stands, so I was a bit nervous when I first looked at the frame completed. However, I think it'll be okay. I just used a plain old compound miter saw. Only the two overflows on the one side? How large are the holes and how much will it be rated for?? Yes, the linear overflow size is 21". 15x6x24.5. The two holes will accommodate two 1.5" bulkheads. I only want somewhere between 1200-1500gph going through the sump. I'm pretty sure that'll be enough. So about 4-5x display volume turnover per hour. Edited August 28, 2007 by danskim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danskim August 28, 2007 Author Share August 28, 2007 (edited) Still haven't decided on the MH and LED supplementation, but here is something I am looking at: Spotlight Edited March 14, 2008 by danskim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie97L August 28, 2007 Share August 28, 2007 For the MH supplementation (feels kind of funny saying that since usually fluorescents are the supplements), I am considering three basic options. 1. Spotlight 2. Hang-on 3. Small pendant Or Or All would be 150w HQIs. i'd go with the pendants... i think with a tank as big as yours, the clip ons won't be big enough, and they're really meant for nano tanks. pendants have the shield glass you need and have a variety of mounting options. just my .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danskim August 28, 2007 Author Share August 28, 2007 i'd go with the pendants... i think with a tank as big as yours, the clip ons won't be big enough, and they're really meant for nano tanks. pendants have the shield glass you need and have a variety of mounting options. just my .02 I'm actually leaning mostly towards the spotlights. I don't need the MH for my real lighting. The T5s take care of that. I just want to be able to accentuate certain corals or areas of the tank. I'm positive that the T5s alone would be fine since my current setup is fine, and the ATI fixtures have tested to put out about twice the PAR of a TekLight fixture. The MH would be aesthetics mostly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbartco August 29, 2007 Share August 29, 2007 May consider moving to the 1/2 hp chiller if you could afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danskim August 29, 2007 Author Share August 29, 2007 Yes, I am considering it, but I want to see how the system runs in the basement with just a 1/3 HP chiller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Ric August 29, 2007 Share August 29, 2007 Thanks. To be honest, I am also used to seeing overbuilt stands, so I was a bit nervous when I first looked at the frame completed. However, I think it'll be okay. ... It will be fine! The fact that you have the vertical boards being compressed directly by the horizontals above and below is ticket. Problems happen when people who don't know much about structures nail their boards just lapped together, unwittingly relying only on the nails to transfer the downward load from one board to another. If they at least cut the verticals full height they will have some support, but only point supports (spaced the opening width apart) on the glass bottom. Another common mistake is not "triangulating the forces" to resist lateral loads. Picture this: A rectangle can become a parallelogram without any of the sides changing length. BUT, if you put a diagonal piece from an upper corner to a lower corner, it can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman August 29, 2007 Share August 29, 2007 I'm actually leaning mostly towards the spotlights. I don't need the MH for my real lighting. The T5s take care of that. I just want to be able to accentuate certain corals or areas of the tank. I'm positive that the T5s alone would be fine since my current setup is fine, and the ATI fixtures have tested to put out about twice the PAR of a TekLight fixture. The MH would be aesthetics mostly. Who did that testing? I can't see how a TekLight with 99% reflectors could only be putting out half the light that an ATI fixture does. 150% reflectors? bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbuf August 29, 2007 Share August 29, 2007 The ATI fixtures have fans built in correct? Keeping the T5 bulbs cooled by blowing fans over them have been shown to greatly increase the PAR. The hotter the bulb gets, the lower the PAR stays. I'm pretty sure the TEK fixtures don't have fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBeNormal August 30, 2007 Share August 30, 2007 No, TEK fixtures do not include fans and yes, keeping the bulbs cooled does increase PAR substantially. I'd like to see the unbiased test results to back up the "twice the PAR" statement though. Aim a fan at a TEK fixture and check it out with a PAR meter. I believe the PAR increase can be as much as 25%. The bulbs will also last longer but the fixture will use more energy. Cool the bulbs too much and the opposite will happen. Why doesn't TEK include a fan in their fixtures? Probably for the same reason they chose to not include moonlights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danskim August 30, 2007 Author Share August 30, 2007 (edited) Who did that testing? I can't see how a TekLight with 99% reflectors could only be putting out half the light that an ATI fixture does. 150% reflectors? bob TheGrimReefer over on RC. He is regarded as a/the T5 guru. He really has no reason to have a biased opinion. He uses whatever meters or devices to measure PAR. From off the top of my head, he tests the fixtures when they first come on and after a while when they've had time to stabilize. He's not only tested nearly every T5HO fixture worth mentioning (i.e. the ones with individual parabolic reflectors), he's also tested many bulbs from major manufacturers. It's also worth noting, and I'm sure many of you already know, but the Tek reflectors aren't the best performers. IThe Aquactinics' reflectors so far have been the best... even better than the IceCap SLRs, but they don't sell the reflectors individually. TGR hasn't had the chance to take out the reflectors from the ATI fixtures yet to test them with the same ballasts and bulbs as the others, so the data isn't out yet. But even the expensive FaunaMarin fixtures have tested rather poorly... their ballasts and their reflectors, so it's probably a good idea to stay away from them unless they change their design. So the nearly "2x" figure is a combination of a better reflector and actively cooled bulbs. The biggest performance gain is the cooling though. The ATI fixtures have fans built in correct? Keeping the T5 bulbs cooled by blowing fans over them have been shown to greatly increase the PAR. The hotter the bulb gets, the lower the PAR stays. I'm pretty sure the TEK fixtures don't have fans. Actually you are almost entirely correct, but actually there's a point at which a bulb that is too cool starts to lose PAR and suck up more watts. I don't understand it fully, but it happens. Edited August 30, 2007 by danskim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBeNormal August 30, 2007 Share August 30, 2007 (edited) Interesting, but note Grim's comment on the second page of that thread: "I was provided with a 4x39 220v version of the ATI for the testing." Not that I disagree that ATI is a better fixture (at about 2x the cost), but I see a few issues with this test and using those test results to state that an ATI fixture puts out 2x the PAR of a TEK fixture: (1) The ATI unit was provided to Grim specifically for testing. Always question test results if the vendor provides a product knowing that it will be used for testing. They could have cherry picked bulbs, ballasts, reflectors and other parts to make sure the fixture provided the best possible results. (2) I didn't see any statements that the fixtures were running identical bulbs. Maybe they were, but I didn't see it in the thread and Grim never claimed that it was a head-to-head test. (3) The ATI fixture tested was designed to run on 220v, 50 hz. I'm no electronics whiz but I think running that fixture on 60hz would affect the results. It would be much better if the testing had been against an ATI 110v, 60hz fixture designed for and sold in the US. (4) The test was conducted before SLS switched to their new reflectors. All in all, I still say that TEK is a very good fixture for the price. If only they would listen to customers and make a few minor changes--like adding fans! I beat up the SLS east coast rep about this every time I talk to him. Lately I've also started complaining abut the new SLS retro reflectors being much wider than the old ones, but that's a topic for another thread. Edited August 30, 2007 by YBeNormal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danskim August 30, 2007 Author Share August 30, 2007 This isn't the original, original post (I cannot seem to find it), but TGR refers to his test data: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...295#post9030295 "As I remember the ATI Fixture did 302 Aquactinic with 4 lamps did like 198 Tek with a fan did around 190 Tek with no fan did 152." The PAR was tested at a depth of 17". So a fanless TekLight basically produces 1/2 the PAR of the ATI. But something as simple as adding a fan (although it might look ugly) increases it by almost 33% to 2/3 of the ATI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danskim August 30, 2007 Author Share August 30, 2007 (edited) Interesting, but note Grim's comment on the second page of that thread: "I was provided with a 4x39 220v version of the ATI for the testing." Not that I disagree that ATI is a better fixture (at about 2x the cost), but I see a few issues with this test and using those test results to state that an ATI fixture puts out 2x the PAR of a TEK fixture: (1) The ATI unit was provided to Grim specifically for testing. Always question test results if the vendor provides a product knowing that it will be used for testing. They could have cherry picked bulbs, ballasts, reflectors and other parts to make sure the fixture provided the best possible results. (2) I didn't see any statements that the fixtures were running identical bulbs. Maybe they were, but I didn't see it in the thread and Grim never claimed that it was a head-to-head test. (3) The ATI fixture tested was designed to run on 220v, 50 hz. I'm no electronics whiz but I think running that fixture on 60hz would affect the results. It would be much better if the testing had been against an ATI 110v, 60hz fixture designed for and sold in the US. (4) The test was conducted before SLS switched to their new reflectors. All in all, I still say that TEK is a very good fixture for the price. If only they would listen to customers and make a few minor changes--like adding fans! I beat up the SLS east coast rep about this every time I talk to him. Lately I've also started complaining abut the new SLS retro reflectors being much wider than the old ones, but that's a topic for another thread. 1. He was running the same bulbs. I think it's mentioned on the same page. (It would be much of a comparison if different bulbs were used. And he really does know his stuff about lighting). I agree that the 220v model might have affected the results. However, I'm sure he'll test it with the US version as soon as he can get one. 2. Same bulbs 3. Yes, I agree. But their 220v ballasts can run 50hz or 60hz. "The ballasts for 110v/220v are the same for many makers like Sylvania which can run 110-220-270 (50 or 60hz). And The Universal, Advance, and Sylvanias are identical. The power factor at 220v is something like 1% better... so the power use is slightly more efficient, but what you pay will be identical. As far as how the bulbs are treated between the two voltages... they will be the same. I bet the largest difference would be that if you are 110v in the house and have to use a voltage converter, the converters arent always very efficient... often making some heat, and wasting 5-10% electricity make the converters less attractive." 4. But they only have those reflectors for retrofit kits and a limited number of fixture models. At least that's the last I saw... only available in 6 bulb 48". The ATI fixtures are not double the cost of a Tek fixture. ReefGeek's pricing on the ATI fixtures come with bulbs standard. $899 for an 8 bulb powermodul. $529 for an 8 bulb TekLight. That's a $370 difference. So 1.7x more expensive. If it can produce 1.7x more PAR, I'd be more than thrilled with my new lighting. For the same wattage and bulbs I can get a better result. Plus, the ATIs are better looking. Edited August 30, 2007 by danskim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBeNormal August 30, 2007 Share August 30, 2007 The new SLS reflectors are available in all fixtures now. They even sell them separately for folks that want to upgrade their old fixtures. Full disclosure: I use TEK lights over my tanks and I have arrangements with a friend that allows me to order my supplies direct from SLS. I don't retail them, nor do I make any profit off SLS products in any way. I find these discussions to be interesting though and I also happen to follow Grim's threads closely when I have time to do so. He is definitely the T5 guru and has done a lot to help people understand T5 lighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danskim August 30, 2007 Author Share August 30, 2007 I have also been satisfied with my TekLight over the past year. I've gotten very good growth with it. But with that said, I don't plan on using their fixtures anymore because of better options (although at a higher price). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danskim September 4, 2007 Author Share September 4, 2007 A picture of some of the goodies that have come in so far. My tank delivery date is 9/23! Oh, and another little diversion. 1:8 scale of the tank to come... a picotope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbuf September 4, 2007 Share September 4, 2007 What tunzes did you end up going with. There one big box, is that a wavebox? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danskim September 4, 2007 Author Share September 4, 2007 Yes, the long box is the wavebox. I'm going with a 2x6100, 1x6200 and 1x6212. One of the 6100s will be on a WavySea. If I can't sell my VorTechs soon... I'll probably just hook them up too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason the filter freak September 4, 2007 Share September 4, 2007 Looks fun to me, I'll be taging along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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