copps July 3, 2007 Share July 3, 2007 Show off... hee hee Yeah... I WISH those xanthic regals were mine to show off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copps July 3, 2007 Share July 3, 2007 To help people be able to compare, here's shots of adults and juveniles of both species... these two are misidentified all over the internet, so it's tough to go by what they're marked as... The best way to tell again is by looking at the stubbier nose and more rounded breast of H. diphreutes compared with H. acuminatus. Also, the second black bar usually ends in the corner of the anal fin of H. diphreutes as opposed to just above that for H. acuminatus, but this way gets confusing as it changes between specimens... Juvenile Heniochus acuminatus... Adult Heniochus acuminatus (*usually not found in large shoals) Juvenile Henichus diphreutes... Adult Heniochus diphreutes... notice on the adults it's much easier to note the differences... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valab July 4, 2007 Share July 4, 2007 (edited) I Edited July 4, 2007 by Valab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copps July 4, 2007 Share July 4, 2007 Distinguishing them from acuminatus can be really tough, especially when they're small. This one for example is listed as acuminatus but it is most likely a diphreutes Heniochus. Agreed. As mentioned above, if it is pulled out of Hawaiian waters, it's a diphreutes. Unfortunately a lot of acuminatus are transhipped through Hawaii (as per the supplier above), so even though 'Hawaii' might appear on the shipping list, that doesn't mean it was actually from Hawaii. This occurs much more commonly with "Hawaiian flame angels", which in reality are Christmas Island (and to a lesser extent Marshall Islands) flames transhipped through Hawaii. True Hawaiian flames are very rare (as I talked about in my rare angels talk)and in certain areas released aquarium industry flames are more common and now it's believed they're breeding. However, I know this wholesaler well and speak regularly with him and travel yearly to Hawaii. He and one of his divers specifically target these diphreutes there in Hawaii... John at BRK has brought them in along with true Hawaiian pyramid butterflies... Rest assured these will be diphreutes... Written descriptions haven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowardofNOVA July 4, 2007 Share July 4, 2007 Valab and Copps Excellent resource and knowledge on the subject!! I been a huge fan of this fish as I've mentioned and have had great success with Vividaquarium over the years except ONE time I got an A. By mistake and WHILE, this pig went after everything in my tank for the 1/2 day he was in their until my former BULLY Blue Velvet Damsel (Another fish that should be BANNED from Reeftanks) beat him to death by the next day!! Needless to say it was a mixed blessing!! Myself the easiest and only way I've been able to tell has been by stripe coming to the point. I'm batting a 100% this way, because if you don't have the 2 side by side, you can't have any reference to go by for the snout and breast, IMO. Talking to LFS in the past, a lot of them mentioned that when they purchase fish, they don't have my choice in EXACT sub-species but if BRK can guarantee it, this would be awesome!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copps July 4, 2007 Share July 4, 2007 What's up Howard! Most LFS are supplied by wholesalers in LA who import from around the world and most list only "black and white heniochus" or something similar with no latin name. They really don't have the time, resources, educated staff, or demand yet to distinguish... while word has been out on the difference for some time, most LFS won't demand it so they don't pursue it. Most of the LA operations are run by knowledgable owners/operators, but they do so much volume that many of the reps just don't know the subtle differences. I deal with this weekly along with John and Byron (although Byron tends to just flirt with the female reps which gets us cherry picking benefits! ) Smaller operators and wholesalers in Hawaii are run and overseen by the owners much more than the high volume LA wholesalers for the most part. This particular wholesaler is well aware of the differences and only sells diphreutes caught locally anyway... Believe it or not these diphreutes are also shipped from him to the LA wholesalers too, which end up being the minority of the "black and white heniochus" the sold out of LA as they are grouped in with the acuminatus caught on reefs throughout the South Pacific... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowardofNOVA July 4, 2007 Share July 4, 2007 Pretty cool my favorite fish has received this much PR!! Next Subject: Yellow Clown Goby And Yellow Canary Wrasse (Coris) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valab July 4, 2007 Share July 4, 2007 (edited) Copps, Edited July 4, 2007 by Valab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copps July 4, 2007 Share July 4, 2007 Understood Valab... we'll all be able to see what small diphreutes look like when the shipment comes in, and we'll take pics of them at BRK and post them. When it all comes down to it, however each person does it it doesn't matter... whatever's easiest for each person and works... How many is everyone looking for? Anyway, Happy 4th! Johnny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 July 4, 2007 Share July 4, 2007 I am looking for 3 of them. If they can be ordered reliably down the road then I might wait a few more months. Thanks for the helpful ID lesson guy, I can only add: ohhh pretty fishy, me likey, I trust Copps and BRK to get the right ones for me. Were pretty lucky to have such fish experts in our club! Valab, OT, I don't think CWD has spread this far east. Even then, by avoiding eating offal meat you are pretty much safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsarvis July 4, 2007 Share July 4, 2007 I trust Copps and BRK to get the right ones for me. Were pretty lucky to have such fish experts in our club! My thoughts exactly! I am in for three as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigJPDC July 4, 2007 Share July 4, 2007 after hearing it will play nice with my copperband, I am in for one. We're talking about August? jp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnybv July 5, 2007 Share July 5, 2007 after hearing it will play nice with my copperband, I am in for one. We're talking about August? jp We are working to get this moving as soon as we can. Copps is in talks with our Hawaiian contact to see what he can get for us. john Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowardofNOVA July 5, 2007 Share July 5, 2007 Valab, CWD has not been found YET in VA/MD area, but we do have several other diseases in our deer hurds. Blue Tongue especially further South and Lymes Disease. Sending more info by PM so as not to get off target on THIS cool subject! :wink: Johnny, I'm holding off on another B/W H. For now, will stop in on Bday tomorrow for something else! :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigJPDC July 11, 2007 Share July 11, 2007 I realized I should have asked how much these will be selling for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copps July 11, 2007 Share July 11, 2007 Pricing isn't worked out until the shipment comes as it depends on many factors, but they are not an expensive fish... in the $30 to $40 range... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigJPDC July 11, 2007 Share July 11, 2007 Thanks copps! Just wanted to make sure. That's my kind of action. jp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBeNormal July 11, 2007 Share July 11, 2007 What sized tank do these guys need? Any special requirements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS July 11, 2007 Share July 11, 2007 I may be interested in a few, please put me down on the contact list when things are figured out. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copps July 20, 2007 Share July 20, 2007 We are working to get this moving as soon as we can. Copps is in talks with our Hawaiian contact to see what he can get for us. john Okay guys, a few dozen freshly caught Hawaiian Heniochus diphreutes are arriving today into Blue Ribbon Koi... sizes should be mixed from smalls to mediums... Good luck! Copps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwildman July 20, 2007 Share July 20, 2007 I just wanted to jump in and say I have a pair of Heni d's in my 180 and I love them. They are really nice looking (IMO) and a great addition. They have been model citizens (picking-wise) and are great eaters. John Okay guys, a few dozen freshly caught Hawaiian Heniochus diphreutes are arriving today into Blue Ribbon Koi... sizes should be mixed from smalls to mediums... Good luck! Copps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigJPDC July 20, 2007 Share July 20, 2007 Okay guys, a few dozen freshly caught Hawaiian Heniochus diphreutes are arriving today into Blue Ribbon Koi... sizes should be mixed from smalls to mediums... Good luck! Copps How long do you qt them for, and what is the price? jp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman July 20, 2007 Share July 20, 2007 How long do you qt them for, and what is the price? jp Would they be okay in a 240-Long? (getting a big tank means never having to say 'sorry - but that will get too big for my tank!') bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigJPDC July 20, 2007 Share July 20, 2007 I am going to chime in and say that I am not getting tired of the 240 jokes at all. In fact, I open every post now, so I won't miss one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowardofNOVA July 20, 2007 Share July 20, 2007 After acclimating in the tank, keep in mind what's in the tank that your putting them into? In my case I bought a smaller B/W H D about 2" long and placed in my frag tank to GROW UP a bit before I introduced to my main tank with a Yellow and Powder Blue Tang, both about 4-4.5" long. He was in my F.Tank for about 2 months and got to about 4" long and was about the same time as my recent move. So I actually at one point had both Tangs, B/W, Yellow Eye Kole and Sailfin Tang in my 30g Frag tank while my newly moved 90g was settling in. They where a bit cramped in there for a couple of days and when I moved the B/W and Yellow/Powder Blue into main tank (new landscape setup) they seemed to get along fine! I've found B/W, though generally very docile to be NO PUSHOVER if they are threatened! Can hold their own, so as long as they are about the size of the other fish in the tank, shouldn't be an acclimation issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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