steveoutlaw March 13, 2007 Author March 13, 2007 I think you were just trying to find a inexpensive "high" Trust me, I'll take my scotch over this anyday. I'm on day 3 with this and it's not getting any better. Plus, I hate bed rest.........I'm going stir crazy!!
lanman March 13, 2007 March 13, 2007 Trust me, I'll take my scotch over this anyday. I'm on day 3 with this and it's not getting any better. Plus, I hate bed rest.........I'm going stir crazy!! Meanwhile, the doctor is trying to figure out how to work this into an article for a trade magazine, and a $million grant for studying the effects of palytoxins. Hope you're well soon! bob
Gatortailale March 21, 2007 March 21, 2007 Any update? Hope you are on road to recovery. guess you need gear next time you do something like that with a way to breath fresh air. PS: Sprung talked about someone else doing something similar (breathing toxic zoa vapors) - we got it on tape. Just will take dbartco a few weeks to month to convert tape to DVD.
HowardofNOVA March 21, 2007 March 21, 2007 WHILE STEVE! First chance I had to read this thread!! I inhaled some of the fumes when pouring boiling water over some nuisance polyps .......I'm happy to take one for the team...... Steve, Will you stop over tonight so I can SLAP THE LIVING @#$& OUT YOU! Seriously, Glad your ok though!
jamesbuf March 21, 2007 March 21, 2007 Do they still have you on the corticosteroids?? If they didn't already advise you of this, you definitly shouldn't drink any alchohol while on that stuff, it puts alot of stress on your liver and kidneys. Hopefully they told you to drink alot of water as well. I'm sure the doctors were fighting over who got to work up your case. Its not everyday that people come in with palytoxin poisoning. I'm sure it was a welcomed change from all the monotony of sore throats and broken bones.
steveoutlaw March 21, 2007 Author March 21, 2007 First chance I had to read this thread!! Steve, Will you stop over tonight so I can SLAP THE LIVING @#$& OUT YOU! Seriously, Glad your ok though! Too late Howard......my wife already did it. James - I'm still on the steroids and will be through the weekend. They did tell me not to drink alcohol and to drink plenty of water. I'm finding out that steroids make you pee.......A LOT!! They are going to see how I do when I come off the steroids. Hopefully my air passages will stay open. I'm still coughing a lot but it's getting better every day. They told me that it could take up to three months to get the toxin entirely out of my system.......Yippee!!
rancor1 March 28, 2007 March 28, 2007 Too late Howard......my wife already did it. James - I'm still on the steroids and will be through the weekend. They did tell me not to drink alcohol and to drink plenty of water. I'm finding out that steroids make you pee.......A LOT!! They are going to see how I do when I come off the steroids. Hopefully my air passages will stay open. I'm still coughing a lot but it's getting better every day. They told me that it could take up to three months to get the toxin entirely out of my system.......Yippee!! Glad you're OK - in general - it's a bad idea to get sick in a way that makes doctors go: "Wow! That's a first!"
steveoutlaw March 28, 2007 Author March 28, 2007 Glad you're OK - in general - it's a bad idea to get sick in a way that makes doctors go: "Wow! That's a first!" Yeah........when you're in the ER with tubes down your throat and plugged in your arm, you certainly don't want to hear "Well, we're not quite sure what to do"!!
Origami December 14, 2009 December 14, 2009 I thought that I'd resurrect this thread as a reminder because some of us were talking about it the other day and because of johnnybv's recent thumb-incident (an infection from cuts and scrapes sustained while working with hard corals). Also because both Jan (I believe) and myself may have been (independently) affected by palytoxin over the last several months despite taking (in my case at least) what we thought to be adequate protection against palytoxin exposure. In my case, the symtoms were initially somewhat flu-like: Rapid onset of severe chills, shaking and a fever of 104F that lasted about 12 hours beginning about 2 hours after exposure while scrubbing some rock covered in this type of paly under cold, fresh running water. I was gloved up (to my shoulders) and wore eye-shields, but may have breathed in some of the toxin when ultimately cleaning up the sink and rinsing it in warm water. More, eye opening details on the symptoms can be found here: http://www.cbwinfo.com/Biological/Toxins/Palytoxin.html From that page: Palytoxin: essential data Symptoms: Angina-like chest pains; asthma-like breathing difficulties; tachycardia (racing pulse); unstable blood pressure with episodes of low blood pressure; hemolysis; electrocardiograms show and exagerrated T wave. Onset of Symptoms: Rapid, with death occurring within minutes. Rapid diagnostic assay: No. Antidote: Vasodilators are effective if delivered immediately by injection into the ventricle of the heart. The most effective are papverine and isosorbide dinitrate. If exposure is expected, pretreatment with hydrocortisone an hour beforehand may offer protection. Supportive Care: Treatment of symptoms, probably as for a coronary spasm. Inactivation: Palytoxins are stable in seawater and lower alcohols. Toxicity : Intraperitoneal LD50 in mice is <100 ng/kg, putting it in the same class as botulin. Generally speaking, the LD50 is in this range for intravenous and intraperitoneal routes for all mammals tested.
Coral Hind December 14, 2009 December 14, 2009 Very good info and well worth bringing back up. There is also the incident where Dave (dschflier) got really sick during his tank break down from from some zoas or palys. The CDC actually came out to take samples!
SkiCurtis December 14, 2009 December 14, 2009 i WOULD LIKE TO SEE WAHT THE cdc PEEPS HAVE TO SAY ABOUT IT
Origami December 14, 2009 December 14, 2009 Reading these few abstacts from the National Institutes of Health (NIH) will catch your attention.... The researchers of the first paper apparently took a sample of the zoas and characterized their palytoxin concentration. The CDC researchers(mentioned a couple of posts back) may have had a similar analysis in mind when they obtained their sample. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18433818 A case of palytoxin poisoning due to contact with zoanthid corals through a skin injury A case of human poisoning by palytoxin after contact with zoanthid corals (Parazoanthus sp.) in an aquarium through skin injuries on fingers is reported. The clinical symptoms include swelling, paraesthesia and numbness around the site of the injury spreading over the arm, but also signs of systemic poisoning such as dizziness, general weakness and myalgia, irregularities in the ECG and indications of rhabdomyolysis. Symptomatic treatment consisted of infusion of physiological fluids. The patient recovered within 3 days. Analysis of the zoanthid coral involved revealed extremely high concentrations of palytoxin (between 2 and 3 mg/g). (emphasis added) http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15084477 Palytoxin disrupts cardiac excitation-contraction coupling through interactions with P-type ion pumps. "Palytoxin is a coral toxin that seriously impairs heart function..." http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19545971 Palytoxin Poisoning After Dermal Contact with Zoanthid Coral "We report a case of palytoxin poisoning from dermal absorption after handling a zoanthid coral. Palytoxin is a potent marine toxin that affects the sodium-potassium ATPase (adenosinetriphosphatase) pump and can cause multiple clinical effects, including paresthesia, dysguesia, hypertension, respiratory depression, coma, and death." (Google this for more: "palytoxin site:nih.gov")
Noobalicious December 14, 2009 December 14, 2009 yikes! guess I have been lucky to get away with just a rash on the back of my fingers from touching them.
lanman December 15, 2009 December 15, 2009 So I should stop putting them in my salad? I have the EXACT paly's that got Steve. There were some on rock that I got from him, and they have spread widely. One of my goals is to get rid of them. So far I have chipped them off - or broken up the rock and kept the pieces without the paly's, tossed out the rest. bob
Origami December 15, 2009 December 15, 2009 I have the EXACT paly's that got Steve. There were some on rock that I got from him, and they have spread widely. One of my goals is to get rid of them. So far I have chipped them off - or broken up the rock and kept the pieces without the paly's, tossed out the rest. Same here. I think different paly's have different toxicity but that's just personal opinion. These can be nasty.. I got mine from dhoch. Just don't steam them, ok?
steveoutlaw December 15, 2009 Author December 15, 2009 The CDC came out to the house and took samples of what I had left of the nasty ones after I had recovered. The basic gist of what they told me was that ALL zoos and palys have toxins. He said that they had only found the Palytoxin in palythoas, but that all species of zoanthids had toxins as well. He actually recommended getting rid of them altogether, but said if I am going to keep them that I need to use gloves, a face mask and goggles when handling them. That really was some scary @#$% I went through. Don't risk it happening to you.
hbh December 17, 2009 December 17, 2009 Do you all have any Pics for those of us who aren't great at identifying these by name? Perhaps photos will stick as a better reminder when looking for corals to add to the tank.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now