Guest JasonD March 9, 2007 March 9, 2007 I first posted this over on RC, and got some good feedback. I wanted to see what you guys think. I'm planning my first SW tank, which I want to be a FOWLR tank with some nice softies or other less-than-intense-light corals. What do you guys think of my chosen equipment? Any additions/subtractions you can recommend? The price's are "worst case scenarios", that is buy everything brand new from the LFS or online. I hope to bring the cost down significantly by buying used, w/o lowering the quality of the equipment. AGA 90 gallon RR tank $230.00 Stand $300.00 Hood or Canopy $220.00 (Glass top a lot cheaper) Sump (20 or 30 gallon) - homemade $30.00 Eheim 1262 return pump $143.00 Hydor Koralia 4 powerheads x2 $120 Euro Reef RS 100 Skimmer $290.00 Tek T-5 4x54 light fixture, with mounting bracket $424.00 (2 pure actinic, 2 11K bulbs) Visa-Therm 250W heater x2 $40.00 CaribSea Seaflor Special Grade Reef Sand-40 pound bagx4 $100.00 Live Rock-90 pounds $450.00 (Mix in base rock?) Salifert pH test kit $12.00 (Have all the other kits from FW tank) Hydrometer $8.00 Instant Ocean Salt mix - 160 gallons $35.00 Floating thermometer $3.00 TOTAL ~ $2,400
Caribbean Jake March 9, 2007 March 9, 2007 looks good Jason, if it was my system, I will not put a floating thermostat, rather use the sticky thermostat that attaches to the outside of the glass. Also, 90 punds? you don't need to match 1pound of rock for each 1gallon, you could start with less and progressively add rocks as you like, if you like. ON the heater? Are you buying two just to have one extra? or are you placing both of them in the tank? If you are placing both, you might want to put one in the tank and one in the sump. Sump, you need to add the cost of acrylic for the baffles, to devide the sump which will help eliminate bubbles. We can talk more about this on another forum or thru PMP. Good Luck
jamesbuf March 9, 2007 March 9, 2007 Only thing I would improve on is the hydrometer. Be on the lookout for a used refractometer. They are worth the money. I didn't have one for the first 2 years in the hobby. After having one now I can say they are definitly more acurate than both of my hydrometers I was using. Quick and easy, definitly worth the money. Other than that, I would say you're starting out better than most people. Definitly better than how I first started out.
Guest JasonD March 9, 2007 March 9, 2007 Sounds good -- anything to save money in the short run. How much LR do you recommend at first to get things running? Should I do a 50/50 mix, or 75/25, 25/75 of LR to base rock? Having never used LR before, I'm not sure of the best way to proceed with it.
Caribbean Jake March 9, 2007 March 9, 2007 Sounds good -- anything to save money in the short run. How much LR do you recommend at first to get things running? Should I do a 50/50 mix, or 75/25, 25/75 of LR to base rock? Having never used LR before, I'm not sure of the best way to proceed with it. Both of my tanks are 100% live rock. I have no base rock in my tanks. I started my 55G tank with 75 pounds and soon realize there was too much for my liking, so I scale down to about 68 pounds. ON the contrary, my 125G currently has 90 pounds of rock, all live rock. One advise on the rock, when buying live rock, go for the one with most porus (holes) and wicked forms, they are easy to work with when creating or building the puzzle. Rocks with more holes on them allows for a better fauna of copperpods and amphipods as well as good bacterias. Also, good when you want to add frags, since those same holes serve as holding puts for the new frags. and I agree with james.. you started on the right foot, and your plan sounds like a winner
jamesbuf March 9, 2007 March 9, 2007 If you do plan on just starting with a fish only setup, you could definitly go with some base rock to start out. It'll colonize quickly if you put some establised liverock in with it. This place has got some pretty good baserock. http://www.reeferrocks.com/ If I had known about this company when I first started I would've definitly ordered from them. Best of luck with everything.
rioreef March 9, 2007 March 9, 2007 I started with 90lbs of dry base rock and seeded with live rock. All a personnel choice. With primarly a FOWLR tank I would go with one convulted tower in the middle (Fish swimming all around it, not just in front of it). Ask around the club here how others have drilled rock and secured into towers. As for the sump. I would go as large as possible. This allow for expansion, baffles, larger area where return pump is, and most of all increasing total water volume. Can the Eheim return pump handle the flow of your drain? Use the head loss calculator on RC to determine pump sizing and brand. Put in a bulkhead that will accomodate your pump now but can handle an upgrade to a larger pump if you choose down the road. Chris
Guest JasonD March 9, 2007 March 9, 2007 Question on the skimmer size...the Euro Reef RS 80 and 100 have the same air flow through them, 420lph. The chamber diameter is just a bit larger on the 100. Would I be better served going up to the RS 135 at 720lph for only ~$50 more?
Caribbean Jake March 9, 2007 March 9, 2007 here are several post about this issue "the bigger the skimme the better they are" some say.... I have not found one soul that says different.
HowardofNOVA March 9, 2007 March 9, 2007 IMHO: AGA 90 gallon RR tank $230.00 GOOD SIZE TO GO WITH BUT DON'T BE IN A HURRY TO FILL WITH LIVESTOCK! :wink: Stand $300.00 Hood or Canopy $220.00 (Glass top a lot cheaper) STAND/HOOD - DIY WOULD WORK IF YOU HAVE THE TIME/EXPERTISE? Sump (20 or 30 gallon) - homemade $30.00 GO WITH A 29L MINIMUM/30-40 WOULD WORK BETTER DEPENDING ON HOW YOUR CONFIGURING IT AND WHAT'S GOING INSIDE IT? Eheim 1262 return pump $143.00 "Not Self-priming" ALOT OF CHOICES: INTERNAL: Danner Supreme Mag-Drive 18 $139.99 1800GPH (I RUN IN MY 90G) Quiet One 6000 1506GPH $149.99 EXTERNAL: Sequence ReeFlo Wahoo UNO Pump * $309.99 1550GPH Sequence ReeFlo Marlin UNO Pump * $329.99 2050GPH MD70RLT Japanese Motored Iwaki Water Pump 1500GPH **I'M RECOMMENDING BIGGER PUMPS THEN JUST FOR A RETURN, REASON: USE BALL VALVES TO SPLIT WITH PART TO RETURN AND PARTS TO SKIMMER, UV STERILIZER, FRAG TANK, SCWD'S, ETC. Hydor Koralia 4 powerheads x2 $120 USE A 1" SEASWIRL FOR THE RETURN AND TUNZE WITH THESE. Euro Reef RS 100 Skimmer $290.00 GOOD CHOICE Tek T-5 4x54 light fixture, with mounting bracket $424.00 (2 pure actinic, 2 11K bulbs) USE T5 SUNLIGHT RETROFIT KITS DIY FOR ABOUT LESS THAN $300. (2 ACTINIC PLUS, 6500 DAYLIGHT, 12000 SUNLIGHT) Visa-Therm 250W heater x2 $40.00 GO WITH 2 X 300W (ONE SET 2 DEGREES COOLER) CaribSea Seaflor Special Grade Reef Sand-40 pound bagx4 $100.00 Live Rock-90 pounds $450.00 (Mix in base rock?) IMHO: GO WITH ABOUT 100-130# - BUY ON SALE FROM OTHERS IN THE GROUP SELLING OR LEAVING THE HOBBY! WITH 600 MEMBERS, ALWAYS SOMEONE HAVING A SALE. SO START NOW LOOKING FOR PEOPLE SELLING OUT FOR $2-$4 PER LB. PUT IN A TUB WITH HEATER, PUMP AND LIGHT TO KEEP IT ALIVE. Salifert pH test kit $12.00 (Have all the other kits from FW tank) Hydrometer $8.00 I WILL PAY YOU NOT TO BUY ONE OF THESE!!!!!!!!!!!!! -GO WITH A REFRACTOMETER FOR ABOUT $40-$50 ON INTERNET OR LFS HAVE THEM AS WELL! Instant Ocean Salt mix - 160 gallons $35.00 YOU WILL GO THROUGH THIS IN THE INITIAL SETUP, BUY (2) 200# BOX - LFS SELLING ALL THE TIME ON SALE. Floating thermometer $3.00 TOTAL ~ $2,400 PRACTICE PATIENCE PLEASE! :wink: AFTER YOU CONFIRM YOUR PLAN, TAKE YOUR TIME BY KEEPING YOUR EYES OUT FOR THE THINGS THAT YOU WANT ON SALE - ALOT OF ITEMS YOU CAN GET CHEAPER IF YOU HAVE PATIENCE. IF MONEY ISN'T THE ISSUE, CHECK LFS OR GB AND ENJOY! ...DID I MENTION ABOUT PATIENCE?
lanman March 10, 2007 March 10, 2007 PRACTICE PATIENCE PLEASE! :wink: AFTER YOU CONFIRM YOUR PLAN, TAKE YOUR TIME BY KEEPING YOUR EYES OUT FOR THE THINGS THAT YOU WANT ON SALE - ALOT OF ITEMS YOU CAN GET CHEAPER IF YOU HAVE PATIENCE. IF MONEY ISN'T THE ISSUE, CHECK LFS OR GB AND ENJOY! ...DID I MENTION ABOUT PATIENCE? Patience be darned! I started putting corals in my tank as soon as the water was clear enough to see them! And that Kenya tree is STILL alive! Unfortunately - so is the $1.49 damsel. And I'm yanking your chain - my tank went through the cycle from H-E-double hocky sticks - the whole house smelled like New York harbor. My daughter threatened to go live with her mother, and my indoor cat moved outdoors. My live rock had arrived at the store the day I bought it, after a rough voyage from Fiji. It was a month before I could see all the way to the back of the tank! As soon as the ammonia started to drop (i.e. - once the test kit read something other than 'too high to measure' - which was over a month), I put in some hermits and snails, and shortly thereafter the Kenya tree. But I'm glad I went through it; that beautiful main piece of rock wouldn't have lasted long enough for MS to cook it for me - someone would have snatched it up. I knew NOTHING about buckets of rock with heaters and pumps - which I used to great effect before I set up the 45. I knew nothing about tearing off the biggest dead sponges before I put the rock in there. Worst of all - I knew nothing about WAMAS. This forum would have saved me several bottles of Maalox Max! bob
Guest JasonD March 10, 2007 March 10, 2007 Great advice, all. Howard, when you say the Eheim pump will not self-prime, how will that be a bad thing? If it sitting in the sump, and the power goes out, it will still be submerged when the power comes on and should start pumping again right away. The only time it would have to be primed is if it were lifted out of the water or the sump ran dry -- how will this happen? I'm not trying to be contrary, I'm just ignorant!
jason the filter freak March 10, 2007 March 10, 2007 I would go with a relaint and easy to read digital thermometer
HowardofNOVA March 10, 2007 March 10, 2007 Jason Going by Marine Depot webiste info but agree with you. Actually I'm a big MAG fan for internal pumps!
madmax7774 March 10, 2007 March 10, 2007 2 comments on your plan. 1 - Definately get a bigger skimmer. Get the biggest one you can afford, you will thank yourself later. There is no such thing as overskimming. Especially when you are new to the hobby, and you are likely to make more mistakes, it is helpful to have a powerful skimmer. 2 - Remember the 4 most important words in this hobby. Regularly Scheduled water changes Disclaimer: These are my opinions, and I swear by them. John
jason the filter freak March 11, 2007 March 11, 2007 2 - Remember the 4 most important words in this hobby. Regularly Scheduled water changes Bingo!
Guest JasonD April 17, 2007 April 17, 2007 Thought I'd give everyone an update on this nOOb's journey. My new comments are in RED AGA 90 gallon RR tank $230.00 -- Oceanic 90 for $150 off Craigslist Stand $300.00 -- stand and canopy for $300 off of Craigslist Hood or Canopy $220.00 (Glass top a lot cheaper) Sump (20 or 30 gallon) - homemade $30.00 -- wanted a 30, but would not fit in my stand, so got a 20 for $15 Eheim 1262 return pump $143.00 -- No change here. Hydor Koralia 4 powerheads x2 $120 -- or here... Euro Reef RS 100 Skimmer $290.00 -- The ER's would not fit in my cabinet easily, so I'm getting a Tunze 9010 for $327. Tek T-5 4x54 light fixture, with mounting bracket $424.00 (2 pure actinic, 2 11K bulbs) -- decided that I HAD to have the shimmer and pop of MH's, so I'm getting a factory refurbed Aquatinics MH fixture (2x250 watt) with T5 actinic supplements for $500. Visa-Therm 250W heater x2 $40.00 -- got 2 150w Jagers because MD does not carry Visa-Therm and I needed my total order to exceed $175 for free shipping. I've used Jagers on my FW tanks with no problems. CaribSea Seaflor Special Grade Reef Sand-40 pound bagx4 $100.00 -- no change Live Rock-90 pounds $450.00 (Mix in base rock?) -- my last major purchase before I'm ready to stock. I hope to buy all my LR from a WAMAS member or off of Craigslist. Salifert pH test kit $12.00 (Have all the other kits from FW tank) -- also added Ca and Alk test kits. Hydrometer $8.00 -- got a refractometer online for $40 Instant Ocean Salt mix - 160 gallons $35.00 -- getting a couple of 200 gallon boxes from BRK for the social next week. Floating thermometer $3.00 -- using my own laboratory grade thermometer I borrowed from work. TOTAL ~ $2,400 I don't want to total it...it would sadden me... Things I didn't think about and added as I learned: lots of silicon and acrylic to make the sump, RO/DI unit, TDS meter, extra heater and small PH to prepare water change water, plumbing pieces for the overflow and sump, GFI plug, timers, small hospital/QT tank and small filter for it, floating magnet, and a filter sock. I'm sure there will be more things!
shawns April 17, 2007 April 17, 2007 when youget your plumbing make sure you pick up at least 3-6 5 gallon buckets at the ole depot. thats my 2 pennies. anxious to see it when it gets going!
Guest JasonD April 17, 2007 April 17, 2007 when youget your plumbing make sure you pick up at least 3-6 5 gallon buckets at the ole depot. thats my 2 pennies. anxious to see it when it gets going! I've been using old cleaned out cat litter containers from BJ's for my FW tank -- they hold about 5 gallons. Guess I better save some more.
shawns April 17, 2007 April 17, 2007 that sounds like it works, but ask any1 on here, you can never have too many of those buckets!
lletellier May 3, 2007 May 3, 2007 I don't know where your at now but personally as far as the live rock/sand here would be my recommendations. Get at lease a 4 in sand bed (jamesbuf told me that when I started) and at least 1# live rock per gallon (buy off members, get some with coraline already on it to get you started). Your tank will cycle in a week or less and you'll be ready to move onto other more exciting things. I have around 90 lbs live rock in my 46 and it was a very easy start up. I also like it because it covers up my spray bar, gives me a lot of different places to put corals, and looks like a reef as opposed to a lump of rocks in the middle of a tank. just my opinion
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