MH vs. T5

[bcjm]

Just read some interesting threads in reefcentral about T5. Wondering how many people here using T5 only with good result (or bad).

 

Bob

[YBeNormal]

I'm running T5 only on my tanks with good (IMHO) results and so are many others on this and other boards. In Europe where electricity rates are much higher than in America and people tend to be more concious of the environment, T5 has a strong following due to reduced power consumption. That said, T5 may or may not be the right choice for you depending on the type of coral you plan to keep, how deep the tank is, personal choice (MH shimmer vs. brightness of T5s) and other variables.

 

Did your reading make you lean toward or against T5s? If you are leaning toward switching to T5s, make sure you buy a quality light fixture or retro kit with good bulbs and single, high-quality reflectors. You can find lots of cheap T5 fixtures in the LFS or on eBay and you get what you pay for. You should also be careful when switching from PC or MH lighting to T5 as corals will bleach if you do not acclimate them to the new lighting.

[jason the filter freak]

I love my T5's

[dhoch]

All I have to say is look at my website:

 

http://www.danj.com/reef

 

I've been running T5 for over 2 years (no MH on my system).

 

Dave

[bcjm]

I am setting up a 60x24x24 tank. My corals are most soft and LPS. I think many people have read this thread: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=700454 Can't believe the color of the corals.

 

 

Where do you buy a high quality 60" 8x80 watt T5 fixture or retro? Is this any good?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=250078530860

[dhoch]

Personally I prefer DIY... goto http://www.reefgeek.com

 

BRK also stocks some T5 stuff (but doesn't stock the 60" bulbs).

 

Dave

[SDBDRZ]

T-5's here as well. I have used just about every wattage of MH bulb and I am very pleased with the results of T-5's.

 

With T-5's you need a quality reflector (either a fixture or retro that includes individual reflectors), also read some of the bulb comparison charts as well.

 

Lighting is only one component to a successful reef.

[Guest vatbrew]

I see people using icecap 660's for their T5's. Are there multiple 660's or could I use the one that is running my VHO's?

[dhoch]

Same ones running your VHO can run T5...In fact you can mix them run T5 & VHO off the same ballast.

 

You have to get new endcaps, and the reflectors, but the same ballast & wiring will do.

 

Dave

[bcjm]

Do you know why does their 8x80W icecap retro kit come with 3 ballasts (2x660 and 1x430)? Isn't 660 drive 4 bulbs?

[rsaavedra]

Bob thanks for stopping by yesterday, it was a pleasure meeting you and your wife. I see that after our long conversation yesterday you decided to research T5's after all, you have seen the growth in my tank and is all T5's. I would not go back to MH unil they figure out how to run them as cool as T5's :wink:

 

I run 5X48" 54W T5 Retros and love it.

 

Back to Front:

 

1. AquaBlue+

2. Pure Actinic

3. MidDay

2. Actinic+

1. AquaBlue+

 

#1 Ballast from 1200pm to 1100pm

#2 Ballast from 100pm to 1000pm

#3 Ballast from 245pm to 715pm

 

Everything is happy and growing like crazy

 

Raf

[VicSkimmr]

T5's here as well, but I don't have much experience to add to it, only been running them for a month or so.

 

 

 

I do have a question though. The zoanthid frags that I've gotten are all starting to fade it seems. Well, actually it depends on the frag. My AOG's that I got have gotten a stark white skirt around them, and most of the blue-ish zoanthids are definitely starting to fade. They're about 20" away from the light source, and my lights are basically 10k (I'm getting 2 Blue+ bulbs in on Tuesday). Could it be the lights causing this? I figured 6x39 watt T5's would easily penetrate a 20" tall tank to the bottom.

[n8dogggg]

I'm running 2 x 250 MH (10k, just switched to 14k this week) over my 75G...will be adding 2 T5 soon for Actinic... But I love my MHs. I've had some crazy growth in my tank and have only had it set up for roughly a year now. My electricity hasn't spiked since the upgrade to MH but I'll probably give all T5s a chance in the next tank I set up. Just so I can experience both sets of lightings. Overall, I don't think you can go wrong with either.

 

Definately prefer the diy kits though. Ability to customize is priceless.

[dhoch]

Let me add some stuff:

 

First yes a 660 can only drive 3 x 80W bulbs.... (that's why 3 balasts)....

 

 

Second VHO actinic's are MUCH MUCH BETTER than T5 actinic... if you are going to do 2 actinic bulbs get VHO's and run them off the 430.

 

As for the zoanthids that involves many factors including what kind of lighting they came from and tank conditions, but it is most likely stress related...

 

Dave

[keeperofthefish]

I have run two different types of T5 configurations--an Aquactinics 5 bulb system driven by workhorse ballasts and now a 4x54w on an IceCap 660 along with 2x46.5" VHO SuperActinics. This latter is a better setup (T5 super actinics are not nearly as good as VHOs), but neither is as good as halides. For one thing, T5s leave the light looking a bit flat--no shimmer and it creates a more static-looking environment. They will grow the SPS, but the colors are not quite as intense as under halide. I run T5s because of heat issues in my small apartment and electricity costs. Here, no one can argue that T5s blow MH away. However, points source light is the way to go, IMHO. Combination T5 halide systems--especially on a system as large as yours--is probably the ultimate. You could get a couple of 400 watt pendants and surround those with 4 or so T5s, plus maybe a bank or two of VHOs.

 

Overall, and in all seriousness, T5s are overhyped. They are better for some applications, but they are more trouble than they're worth. Just think about the sheer number of bulbs involved vs. MH. On larger systems, metal halides can be more cost effective.

[dhoch]

keeper, sorry to dispute you in terms of color, but I have to disagree... did you check out the link in the first post on this thread Coloration is so much more than just the light type...

 

I've seen MH systems where the corols were really brown looking and I've seen T5 systems where the corals were very brightly colored (hmmm sounds like my system )... I think there is MUCH more to it than just light.

 

Again I would disagree that one is better than another... it's just hype for one bulb versus another.... depends on your application. It is true that MH will give you shimmer lines and T5 won't...

 

And finally if you are using MH don't use T5 for suppliments if you are using actinic bulbs... you will get a much better color from the VHO actinic bulbs (ask UVL or ice cap if you don't belive me) :)

 

In terms of cost I think it really is a wash.... I run less watts, and replace bulbs less often than if I had a MH system, but spend more with each bulb replacement when I do...

 

No one has really crunched the numbers for me in an effective way that I belive one is a major savings over the other, but I really take offense when people say MH is better than T5... Neither is better, they are different.

 

Dave

 

Opppss sorry I was thinking of another thread with the link to this:

 

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=700454

 

here is a pic if you don't want to follow the link:

 

6 x 80W & 4 x 54W T5 ONLY aquarim

 

[rsaavedra]

For one thing, T5s leave the light looking a bit flat--no shimmer and it creates a more static-looking environment.

 

Not necessarily, as MH gives you the fine line shimmer effect T5's under the correct conditions will give you a shimmering effect as well, just not as pronnounced a MH. You can see the shimmer on my T5 setup not as strong as MH but it stills looks good and is there and can be enjoyed.

[YBeNormal]

Yeah, what he said except I do believe you will see serious cost savings over the long term with T5s, both frm electricity usage and bulb replacement costs. JMHO with no hard numbers to back it up.

 

One of the main reasons I use T5s is that my tank room is only 9.5' x 11' and sorely lacking in ventiliation and air conditioning. 4x39W plus 6x54W T5s plus all of the other equipment running on my tanks create enough of a heat issue for me already. MH bulbs would only add to that problem. I like the brighter look of T5s and VHOs anyway though, so all I lose is the shimmer of MH.

[Gadgets]

Opppss sorry I was thinking of another thread with the link to this:

 

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=700454

 

here is a pic if you don't want to follow the link:

 

6 x 80W & 4 x 54W T5 ONLY aquarim

 

 

Yes Iwan runs T5, but also remember that his colors are NOT only from the T5s. He uses Prodibio!!!

 

 

 

many thank for the nice reports.

 

of course I am very pleased that tank my outside Europe felled also.

 

Some details:

 

Technical equipement for all situations are "missing" in my tank.

I trust for this on a biologically active system.

 

Light: pure T5 illumination

Flow: Tunze Stream

Skimmer: 1 Aquamedic Turbofloater, 1 nonname product (selfmade).

........yes, I use 2 skimmer

 

No UV

No ozone

 

Bacteria (Prodibio)

Bacterium food (Korallenzucht)

Amino acids (Korallenzucht/Prodibio)

living phytoplankton (DT)

Trace elements (QFI)

Coral food

 

Phosphate, nitrite, nitrate not provable

 

regards

 

Iwan

[SDBDRZ]

keeper, sorry to dispute you in terms of color, but I have to disagree... did you check out the link in the first post on this thread Coloration is so much more than just the light type...

 

I could not agree more :-)

 

The reason that halides and halides vs other types of lighting are so hotly debated is because it is one of the few things in this hobby that is quantifiable by all levels of hobbiests. It is easy to say that X halide is better than Y halide or X wattage is better than Y wattage. With the general theory of most people being that more is always better how can 1000w halides not be better than 175w?

 

Will halides work to grow and color coral? sure they will, so will T-5's or even VHO's for that matter.

 

I would also consider the ability to mix and match bulbs in a T-5 system with greater flexibility to be a benefit, not a hinderance.

 

Lighting is a key component to this hobby, but there is more than one key to success.

[NightOwl]

I have been running 6 x 54 T5's retro over a 90 and love the way the color "pops" as they say. As far as zoanthids and the color bleaching/fading I think it depends on placement and other factors such as water quality, stress, etc. When all my bulbs are on some of the ones with blue in them look faded as soon as the actinics come on they show there true colors. I have since moved them out of direct light and they seem to be doing better. Like some have said you don't get the shimmer lines that MH give you but you get some pretty colors . It's a trade-off and personal preference when it is all said and done. I have been getting crazy growth from them and love them.

 

Henry

[keeperofthefish]

I have to say that Dhoch's tank is incredible, but he also has a TON of T5s over his tank, as it is a big tank and has space available. Plus, he is a verifiable lighting guru so it is almost second-nature for him to get things perfect on his tank. I also 100% agree with his point that VHO super actinics are the way to go--way better than T5 counterparts and I've used both in a variety of bulbs. What I was suggesting in combining T5s with MH is that you can use an MH pendant to spotlight a rock covered with high-light demanding SPS and then use T5s for other corals throughout your tank (thinking big systems here). Look at David Saxby's tank, for instance...

 

I have seen and read about MANY tanks and have experimented extensively firsthand with T5s. My verdict is that for the average reefer on a 75 gallon tank, MH are the way to go. Just look at 143Gadget's tank... I think T5s just have to be dialed in too precisely, and they are overly complex for the results you get. But they are cheaper on electricity and they're better on heat. I just wouldn't recommend them if these aren't concerns. We simply know so much more about MH (thanks, Sanjay) and it's so much easier to get great results.

 

I have good colors on the corals in my tank, but I've seen better--and all in MH tanks. That said, I haven't had the privilege of seeing Dhoch's tank, and I obviously need to check it out--especially now!

[VicSkimmr]

This is the tank that convinced me to go T5 over MH.

 

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-03/totm/index.php

 

There's actually a few that I've seen on RC that come close, but that one takes the cake.

[YBeNormal]

T5s complex? Dialing in T5s?

 

Fixture + bulbs + electricity = lighting. Pretty simple actually.

 

My verdict is that MH is good, T5 is good and VHO is good. Heck, even PC is good. It all comes down to the specific needs and preferences of the owner and his/her tank.

[Jager]

im kinda confused by that as well KOTF, ive got a 75 gallon upper tank with T5s as well and i actually ran into issues of MH corals beign bleached by my T5 lights. there really isnt a "better" choice of lighting. its your preference. i do think this rule of thumb is an excellent thing to remember though.

 

MH allows you to keep high light and low light corals in the same tank easier as well as move corals around to different light intensities easier due to its cone expansion. t5 gives you uniform lighting over the entire tank and requires more care in coral placement initially at times, but provides as good of growth.

 

example. i picked up frags from a 12 inch deep frag tank with the frags at 6 inches. lit by 2 400w MH lights in lumenarcs. because the frags were on the edges of the MH cone, i had to acclimate them over a day to my t5 6bulb tek lights, because they were starting to fade a bit. ive had to do that with frags from Dhochs tank and Flowersellers 250w MH tank as well due to my tank being shallower then either of theirs. but still just different strokes for different folks.

 

the only real arguement for t5v MH is the look (light shimmer)and the depth of tank. until you get to a deep tank (30+ inches) t5s are equivelent to MH fairly closely as far as PAR per wattage and lifetime of bulb v cost.

 

surprisingly you can grow corals great with shop light normal output flourescent bulbs if you feed them constantly. so lighting doesnt always play a key role in coral growth. alot of it has to do with the balance of the system. lower lighting and more food or higher lighting and less food. also 143 and Dhoch and many others are running a dedicated kalk or calc reactor to keep parameters optimum for growth.

 

here are two shots of coral frags growing just fine under t5 lighting in my 75 so you can see the basics without reactors or dosers. i just use kalk by hand and randys two part as needed.