droyal1110

Hello. I plan on finalizing my plumbing tonight but I have a few quick questions. First off is once I apply the primer, how long should I wait? Some people say they wait 24 hours, others 5 mins, does it really matter? Should it be dry before I apply the glue? Second is once it is glued, how long does it take to "cure." As in, once I am done gluing everything I would love to do a leak test, am I able to run the system shortly after gluing or should I wait 24+ hours like on the silicone? Any comments or help is greatly appreciated.

I personally just switched salts without thinking twice, no problems. I've heard people say slowly mix the two together and give the system time to catch up but like I said I went from Crystal Sea (guhh) to Reef Crystals in about a week from each other and I didn't mix.

Sweet! Now if only you were open an hour later during the week =D

Cool, talked to coral hind, thanks for the info. I should be able to identify it tomorrow night and I'll post back here what I plan on doing before doing it... so I don't ruin things.. you know =D

My new dilemma is electrical. Where the new tank is going I only have 2 outlets to my disposal. Sure I could run wires across the room but no one likes that, not to mention the hazard. My questions are these: I have a standard 2 outlet receptacle, unknown at the time what the load it can handle or what else it is sharing; Can I take the box out and add a 2 gang box with a quad (4 outlets) receptacle (both GFCIs), wire that up and everything will be peachy? Can I just take the existing wires in there (again I haven't opened it up yet) assuming its your standard 18g wire with hot, neutral, ground, and just do 2 pigtails off of those wires and connect the 2 receptacles? Anyone know of a DIY link for this? I have wiring experience but I don't know if I am able to add a receptacle to it or if its even worth doing. My problem is I will be running 1 power strip on each outlet, but I could really use 2 more outlets. I don't want to plug a power strip into another power strip, I'm not letting something so simple burn my house down. In the same sense by sharing the load on that breaker/wire with another outlet on there, isn't that the same as adding another power strip on a power strip without the added risk? Please school me =D

Ok I've got some more questions. First off is union placement and how many. On my drain where should I put the union and how many? I know what a union does, how exactly it works I'm not sure, it looks like in some people's setups they wouldn't work because one end of the pipe is glued and the other end of the pipe is glued with a union in the middle... how could that work? If you could please show me some pictures of your union placement I would appreciate it. Also where should I put the gate/ball valve on the drain line. Does it matter where (on the vertical portion or the horizontal portion?) Is it worth putting a gate/ball valve on the return line? When I install the pump on the return line, do I want the pump resting on the glass or should I have it raised off of the glass? How big should I make the return and drain zones? I want my fuge do be the largest size, I just don't want to make them too small. Any flaws with this design? (also where should the stuff I asked go?) I have been debating whether or not I should put another line off of the return line with a valve to help regulate flow in the tank. However with the head pressure and what not I think I'm only going to get 450 gph from the Mag 7 and since I have a 1" drain line with a maximum of 600 gph, I don't know that I would need the extra drain lain. However, I may plumb it to the fuge to help with flow issues in there if needed. The nice thing about the mag 7 is the connection is threaded onto the pump itself. That's why I plan on keeping the pump about an inch or two off the sump floor, my dilemma is whether or not the vibrations will be loud from the return line vibrating or if I should dampen the sound by placing the pump on a sponge or something. What foam block did you use? I definitely plan on using an ATO. I didn't think the return area should be too big since it won't be starving for water unless the (rare) drain line gets clogged. Does it matter where you place the ATO drain or just anywhere in the sump? Also can anyone recommend the best way to cut lexan? I don't have a table saw so whats the next best thing? Is scoring it and breaking it really that hard? Oh and can anyone recommend an ATO. I know Melev has a DIY ATO but I want to hear if anyone has had any problems with it. It almost seems too good to be true. I posted all of this on reefcentral and haven't gotten an answer yet, thought I'd try here again.

I suppose that's better than a full cycle. I'll probably be by Sunday to pick up 80-90lbs of something. Thanks John!

I guess anything is possible however my reasoning is that "live sand" will have dead things in it and will help promote a cycle, which is one of a few beneficial reasons to use live sand when starting a new tank. I'm hoping that by rinsing the sand well in some RO/DI water and putting it on top of a cup of matured sand it will not only be seeded over time but it won't contribute to a cycle. I am doing a 55g upgrade to 90g and I can't afford a cycle.

Ok great thanks, you wouldn't happen to have aragamax select would you?

John, Hey I was wondering if you could give me a price quote and ultimately a recommendation on some sand. I want at least 90lbs of dry sand, color isn't a big deal, fine to medium grain so a goby can sift through and not have any problems. On top of that roughly how long does it take to receive the product? The reason I want dry is because I am afraid if I get "live sand" it will send my tank into a cycle, which I am trying to avoid because its a tank transfer. Any help is greatly appreciated. - Davin

Wyll I'm glad you didn't =D Looks like you're off to a good start. One thing to remember with saltwater is that when you get evaporation, it is causing a swing in your salinity and in some cases your PH. Just make sure to have some RO/DI water in a bucket and everyday top off 1-2 gallons, just keep a mental note (or mark it on your tank) where the water level is at and what the salinity is, and just keep adding fresh RO/DI water to keep everything in balance (Not saltwater, salt doesn't evaporate). Another thing is I would recommend losing the glass lids, I hate the ones on my 55, you will get salt creep nonstop and you increase your gas exchange and reduce heat in the tank with the lids off. When you opened the box of premium live rock from liveaquaria.com, did you happen to notice a strong odor? If you leave the light on over the rocks while cycling you will promote algae growth, there is nothing wrong with that because you are going to get it whether you like it or not. I personally would leave the lights on because it will help keep the color on the rocks rather than turning them brown. Like you I prefer smaller rocks but I find it harder to work with. Meaning the more smaller rocks the more dead areas you are going to have where cyano and detritus will build up. However the rocks in your tank don't look too big to me, plus it leave you shelves for corals to grow or fish to hang out on. If they size really bothers you just pull them out real quick, take a chisel and hammer, and stick it back in the water. The reason people go bigger is because they get a hunger that can't be satisfied in that size of a tank. When I bought my 55 gallon I thought this tank was so big I would never be able to fill it. Well 6 months later I'm going to a 90 and wishing I decided to go a bit bigger, but it will do for now =D As far as the 90lbs of rock, that is perfectly fine. Especially if you are doing a bare bottom tank, this is a breeding ground for the beneficial bacteria you will need to sustain life. The more beneficial bacteria, the more stable your tank will be one day. The aquascaping is a difficult task and I will spend a few hours rescaping, I'm pretty anal about that. I recommend leaving about an inch off the sides of the glass so you can clean the glass. Like I said you will get assorted algae as the tank cycles and matures, no way around that, so personally I like to be able to get it off the glass so I don't feel as discouraged (I hate algae.) Now with the swimming room for the fish, depending on what you want to keep I like to do plenty of caves and an open area at the top. From the looks of what is in your tank already, adding the rest of the 45 lbs of rock you'll be fine, the fish will adapt, find sleeping places, it will be ok. I personally do not glue my rocks, like I said when I first start out I change rocks around while I still can. Not to mention in the event of something needing to be pulled out of the tank or whatever, I would hate to have to pull out all my rock work in one piece when all I had to do was move one rock. I just set the rocks up where I like them and fit the jagged edges into grooves, give them a good testing by waving my hand to see if the current will push it off, kind of rock the rock back and forth, shake the structure a bit. I have had a little rock slide in my tank but it was my fault, not a turbo or any fish's fault. If you wanted to there are a couple of methods of securing rock. One is what I do, not full proof you just have to be careful when moving stuff around. Another is drilling holes into the bottom of the rocks and placing them on PVC pipe with a base so they have a support column holding them together. Another is drilling holes and zip tying them together, and of course you could always glue them together. I have had a large piece of rock tumble down and hit the front of my glass dead center and it didn't break... it scratched... but didn't break. But believe me when I said I cringed like my life depended on it. Oh and the cleaner kit is fine if you want to go that far. Definitely wait until you get some algae growth, probably 3 weeks from now. You don't want to add a clean up crew with nothing to really clean up. I personally feel like those cleaner kits or a bit excessive to start out with but there is nothing wrong with buying it. Just be prepared to supplement using some algae wafers if they really tackle the algae and have nothing to eat. You don't need to quarantine them. When they arrive at your house, just acclimate them in the bag by letting them stay in the bag but put the bag in the tank water for about an hour then just dump them in. Some will die, its nothing in your tank they just come and go.

No I don't believe the skimmer has been modded and off the top of my head I don't really know of any mods you can do for it. It is already recirculating and that is the only real mod I have seen on these type of skimmers. Other then that I guess maybe putting an air stone in the bottom and increasing the flow would possibly do something, its running off of an MJ1200 right now and it seems to work well.

Thanks! I definitely did get an awesome deal on the skimmer and I owe him big time.

I have finally gotten over the hump and now its just bring the rest of it together, so I thought it was time to make a post about my progress. I have had a 55 gallon with everything hang-on-the-back style, since early October of '08 and I am fortunate enough to be moving to a new place where I can have a sump setup and not worry too much about a potential flood (go tile). After the initial furniture move the following day will start early in the breaking down of the 55 gallon and transferring it 20 minutes away into the 90 gallon. The new system is a used 90 gallon reef ready tank with a 30 gallon sump, I am going to be using 1" PVC for the drain, 3/4" PVC for the return, I am going to use a mag 7 on the return, an octopus 150 recirculating skimmer, at least a koralia 2 and 3, probably a 300 watt heater, 6x54 watt T5 setup, something like 110Lbs of live rock, 90 Lbs of dry sand, and I will be running a refugium in the sump. In the overflow I plan on having a regular standpipe with a loc-line hose for the return, and a durso standpipe at 24" for the drain. I apologize for the quality of pictures, right now I have only had my cell phone handy and I wanted to record a bit of my progress. Also a lot of this handy work is a first time for me so don't expect professional quality =) The canopy was sanded and revarnished. The front is on hinges for easy accessibility, there are also two drilled holes on the sides to attach fans for ventilation. The tank was literally broken down right before I got to the guys house, his pipes were frozen at the time so he couldn't get everything out. It also looks like toward the end of owning it he did bare minimum cleaning, I had a lot of ground to make up to make this tank look newer. Thanks to Jamesbuf I got a great deal on this skimmer. I was a bit weary at first because I had no clue where to go as far as skimmers went, but he talked me through it and convinced me why I should buy this skimmer and I am definitely impressed. Probably my favorite piece of equipment right now. (Please excuse the junk, I have this setup in the storage room for now) This was after running it for about an hour, in the brute is just new saltwater, about 40 lbs of old live rock I had just picked up that wasn't in the greatest shape. It foamed up nicely and I am still impressed. I was pretty proud of this (again the tank is 100% clean yet) I picked up some egg crate, got a knife blade and put it on a jiggsaw and cut these out. The top was kind of tricky, I ended up sanding down the edges. This worked out great because I have a snug fit and the edges aren't sharp. I am still irritated by this. This is the original stand the tank came with. The previous owner was using the tank as a headboard on his bed so he had the tank backwards on the stand, as you can see he had to cut the lower right corner in order for the pipes to fit. I figured ok, it was on backwards so he had to cut the stand... well I turned the tank around and low and behold, I had to cut also. Only problem is the supporting joist is moved further up compared to the other side (if that makes sense). Basically I had a smaller cut available so the tank is sitting almost flush in the front with a big lip on the back =/ Here is where the tank will sit. I put the stand on plywood just to help distribute the weight, even though I doubt it would crack the tiles. I like the location because to the left of the tank is where my new room will be, to the right is the storage room and a door to go outside where I can pump water out of. The sump is not finished and the plumbing isn't glued, I was doing a dry fit, still trying to figure out what exactly I want to do with the plumbing. Another shot of the drain line, the return is a pipe that goes straight up, simple as that just waiting on the pump to come in. Please if anyone sees anything on the drain line, let me know. Anything I should do differently? I'm thinking I should cut out a section in the middle and add a union. The part that attaches to the bulkhead is a threaded w/ slip, kind of like half a union. The piece threads onto the bulkhead and the PVC glues into it. Also the PVC sags a little bit during a dry fit, should I get a metal fastener or something and support the PVC? I am also planning to do an ATO, but just haven't gotten that far yet. I want to keep my 2 true percs, 3 chromis, diamond goby, plus at least one tang, a wrasse, maybe some firefish, but not a ton of fish. Please any comments or suggestions are welcomed, setting up a sump is all very new to me. I plan on gluing the baffles in on Friday, I hope scoring it will work out. I also plan on using lexan baffles on glass with AGA silicone, John at BRK said it would work fine since that what he uses in his huge sump at the store. I also plan on finalizing my plumbing hopefully Friday to be ready to do a leak test on Sunday. After that the tank will soak in a vinegar mixture with the return pump running probably over 24 hours so I can scrape everything off. One more thing, does everyone hand tighten the bulkheads or do you wrench those on? I know I'll find out when I leak test but I just thought I would ask, I don't want to risk cracking the glass or ruining the seals. Thanks for looking and more is to come in the near future!

Yea Wyll don't take it the wrong way I didn't mean don't come here looking for answers. I'm just saying that there is a lot of reading involved to help bring the puzzle pieces together. The answers you seek are in a lot of the stickies and if you are still unsure about those questions, by all means ask. I hope I didn't come off mean, it was purely to help you! But seriously ask away, I will offer any knowledge I may have, as will anyone else on here.

Sorry maybe I missed something but, why not turn it on its side and walk it through the door? Otherwise really cool and extra points for creativity!

Well whatever you decide to do keep us informed and good luck.

I have a Sea Hare we could trade for a frag or something. He seems happy in my tank, ate all my GHA but that was about a month ago, I thought he would starve but BRK said he would be so long as there was some algae in the tank. Maybe it could become the community Sea Hare frag swapping promoter =D

First off I recommend you go to the site on reefcentral I already posted, it is in the newbie corner and it is all you need to know to get your feet wet, seriously the info I am posting is pretty much coming from there, it's where I learned. Every wonder what something is, a good place to start is here http://www.melevsreef.com/id/ or http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/reefslides/index.php or http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-08/reefslides/index.php There are a couple hundred pictures and detailed explanations as to whether this is something to welcome or kill in your tank. The main things to look for on live rock is really aiptasia and majano anemones. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...threadid=803632 You will get some snails, hermit, starfish, micro living things, bristle worms, etc. But the big thing is watch out for the aiptasia. All you wanted to know about algae, here is a good start http://saltcorner.com/sections/guest/algaepage/algaepage.htm Its all about your aqua scape. Eventually everything will color up and look beautiful, but it will take time. It took my base rock about 4-5 months to color over nicely going from a bone white, to green, to green with spots, to brown with purple, to what it is now. The shapes will stay the same obviously but they can look more natural and won't stick out unless you scape them that way. PITA: You WILL get algae in the first year, you will get green, green hair algae, red cyano "algae", etc. Fish will possibly die, hermits and snails die all the time, its common so long as they don't all die at the same time. Your water quality will fluctuate quite a bit, you will get frustrated and deterred, it will be tedious, you will have to be patient. Water changes suck. They are extremely necessary, if all else fails, do a water change. Seriously, read the link I sent you before, in case you missed it here it is again http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.p...hreadid=1031074 And to edit I can't think of how to off the top of my head, sorry.

Also if you change a huge amount of water, I would think that it would send the tank into a cycle whether you wanted it or not. I could be wrong on that though.

Well unless your sand was bone dry after you took all the water out, its still going to release anything that may have settled on the surface or was trapped in your live rock. If you completely drained the tank, all the water out, fish in a bucket, coral in a bucket, rock still in the tank I would think you would send the tank into a cycle. Especially if there is sand and rock exposed to the air, there is automatic die off of certain things as soon as they are exposed to air. As far as the amount of water changes go, I would personally cut back to a smaller amount but daily. Maybe do a 15% water change a day, that's just a little over your entire system being changed in 1 week. Definitely avoid stirring up the sand anymore, when you refilled I hope you used a bucket or something to slow the flow down from disturbing the sand even more, especially if this is an older tank. With that high level of nitrate I would really monitor my lifestock, maybe even consider moving them to another tank or hospital tank only if they start to exhibit high stress, I would hate to stress them even more in an already stressful environment. The transition might be just enough to do it for them, they may be stressed from the high nitrate levels and catching them, putting them in a weird place, or even draining the water that low in their tank could just really push them over the edge. If you're not running chaeto, buy some today, even if you don't have a fuge. Cram a whole bunch in your tank, in a spot where they won't get sucked into power heads, you can even pin them down with rock work if need be. Every few days look at it, trim if they start to turn color on the edges. If you've got a fuge put it in there and have that light on at night, this will also benefit with Ph drops and what not. I'm not sure what your live stock will experience through such a dramatic water change but I can't see it being that good on them, especially if the water isn't identical (obviously minus the bad stuff.) Either way good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Agreed with what Brian had to say. One thing with circulation, I have a 55long and I used the Koralia 2 and 3 in my tank along with the same skimmer and it seems to do well but I recommend having one pointing at the surface to help encourage gas exchange and to help keep your Ph in a good spot. With careful placement of rock work and power heads you can avoid dead spots, it doesn't have to be strong flow it just needs to be enough to keep things moving, so stronger power heads aren't going to always be better. Personally with the live rock I like to see what I am buying. Sure they can take a picture of the rock and mail it to you but you have to be there to receive it and I just don't know if I would trust it too much, although there are members here who have done it. I'm just saying personally I do not. I like to go different LFS and pick out nice colorful pieces or if you can post in the classified sections on the forums here post that you are looking some live rock. You can also try craigslist and what not. When I set my tank up I did half and half, half base rock, half live rock, let it cycle for almost 2 months, all my rock is colored up nicely and I'm only 6 months in. Again in my opinion, go shallow sand bed <2" in your display tank. One day if you decide you absolutely have to have it, you can do a remote sand bed where you basically have a bucket with a deep sand bed in it and you have water running through there to and from your tank. This way if the sand starts to leech nitrates back into the water because it is saturated you can just switch out the bucket with a fresh DSB. Definitely always quarantine, more so when your tank becomes more mature and there is more money invested in it. If your tank is just being set up (sounds like it is), you're going to need to cycle the tank anyways. I recommend getting your live rock, sand, power heads, heater, saltwater, put it in the tank and just let it sit for however long it takes for your tank to cycle (you will discover this through testing the water). While your tank is cycling you don't want to put livestock in the water because it will likely kill them. Buy one or two CHEAP fish and put them in your quarantine tank like a week after you set your tank up. A quarantine tank (depending on the fish) could be a simple 10 gallon tank from walmart with a cheap hang on the back filter, an air stone (optional), and some PVC elbows for hiding places, doesn't necessarily need light but I recommend it (how would you like to be in a dark strange place for 4 weeks?). Just put the fish in there, do water changes every other day about 3 gallons, and observe. When adding fish you definitely want to take it slow. Your tank literally needs to adjust to the amount of livestock because your tank has a limit as to how much bio load (fish waste and feeding) it can handle at a time. In order to have more fish you have to slowly increase the amount your tank can handle, if you do it all at once your tank will crash because it simply cannot keep up. Add a clean up crew after your tank is done cycling, let them eat the algae that will have started, wait a couple more weeks, keep testing, if everything looks good add the damsels, they should be relatively cheap and they are hardy. If they survive, a month later add your next fish, they do well a month later add more fish. Or if you don't want to do fish first some people prefer to do corals first, however with corals it is a bit trickier IMO because water chemistry get a bit more advanced. I recommend do fish first then keep reading about corals until you have a good grasp, there are easy ones you can throw in there like mushrooms or polyps, but its good to know the ins and outs of corals before doing so because they can be a pricey mistake compared to a $5 fish. Oh and I'm not the tank police but I definitely don't recommend the tang in your tank, just isn't big enough, fish will be stressed and its life will be greatly reduced and will probably get ich and spread it to your tank mates. Getting fish into the tank is tricky at times, I personally handle all fish with my bare hands. I have been told nets can hurt the fish if they catch on scales or fins and what not, just personal preference I suppose. Definitely learn about acclimating properly (letting the fish adjust to your tank) before dumping fish in. Also do a lot of reading and ask lots of questions. It really is a lot and you are going to hit many many speed bumps and want to rip your hair out, patience young grasshopper. Also I love this place but www.reefcentral.com is another really good website. Definitely subscribe (pay membership fee $20) to WAMAS so you have access to the classifieds and what not, I have already saved a couple hundred dollars and I've been a member for like a month? Start reading here http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.p...hreadid=1031074 Its where I learned a lot of what I know, on top of asking questions. Sorry this is a lot, I'm not trying to overwhelm you. I am by no means a professional, I'm still new so I'm not trying to step on anyone's feet and anyone can correct me where needed. I'm sorry if I repeated anything anyone said. Oh and last but not least Welcome to the forums.

Thanks!

Thanks! Since you live near where I'll be living, if you'd like some pictures of your tank one day when we're both free I could take some pictures of your tank. This goes for anyone around me, photography was my first hobby before this one, I only ask that I retain the rights to the pictures to do as I please but of course credit will be given as to the origin of the photo.

Looks great and is inspiring. I am actually doing almost exactly what you are, same tank, same powerheads, same skimmer, bit smaller sump. Right now its just getting the funds to make it all happen. What size pump did you use on your return? Did you not want coralline algae growing in this tank?