L8 2 RISE September 26, 2009 Share September 26, 2009 (edited) darn, if I had seen this sooner, I would've taken the $20. If everyone here STILL is not content that these are barnacles, I know a guy that I worked on the loggerhead sea turtle project with that has written quite a few papers on barnacles, mainly those that accompany sea turtles, but he can identify pretty much any barnacle he sees on sight... I can try to get in touch with him if you guys (Rob) insist. Edited September 26, 2009 by L8 2 RISE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman September 26, 2009 Author Share September 26, 2009 No time to upload them right now - but I have more and better pictures. I am leaning strongly toward the barnacle Bill's in the bunch. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8 2 RISE September 27, 2009 Share September 27, 2009 What type of coral is this? And yes, it is a barnacle, 20 bucks to coral hind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k September 27, 2009 Share September 27, 2009 I'll pay the $20 to whomever can properly identify it as a barnacle. Otherwise until you know the exact species, it's all just opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k September 27, 2009 Share September 27, 2009 Every diagram of a barnacle I find on the net says they do have a mantle. http://scienceillustration.org/gallery/ima...le_anatomy2.jpg http://www.reefsanctuary.com/photopost/sho...to/1510/si/crab http://data.aims.gov.au/waAesthetics/serva...060S&zone=4 2 of these links talk about and show the barnacles as being embedded in the corals' skeleton. Bob's critter looks like a snail sort of critter with a mimic mantle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan September 27, 2009 Share September 27, 2009 HEY you can't make up rules after you made a bet and lost. That's more than a sore loser. You should have stated that you wanted specific proof when you put the bet out on the forum. I'd say the majority rules on this one. You owe the man 20 bucks. It's not fair Rob! I'll pay the $20 to whomever can properly identify it as a barnacle. Otherwise until you know the exact species, it's all just opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8 2 RISE September 27, 2009 Share September 27, 2009 Well, this is extremely interesting (and cool that I now get 20 bucks). It's a Pyrgomatid coral barnacle. Turns out that Bob has something special. Mike Frick (The barnacle guy) said you (Bob) should get these to Mike Henely at the zoo because specimens like these are pretty much priceless to people like him. He said live specimens are extremely hard to come by. The white one is dead, but the others are alive! He's said he's going to get some info together for me and send it to me. I'll post it here when I get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8 2 RISE September 27, 2009 Share September 27, 2009 HEY you can't make up rules after you made a bet and lost. That's more than a sore loser. You should have stated that you wanted specific proof when you put the bet out on the forum. I'd say the majority rules on this one. You owe the man 20 bucks. It's not fair Rob! I think it's perfectly fair because now I get 20 bucks . Just kidding, I don't care where it goes, pretty cool though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8 2 RISE September 27, 2009 Share September 27, 2009 doh! sorry to add so many posts, but he also said these are non parasitic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan September 27, 2009 Share September 27, 2009 Here's your scientific proof with pics! http://dpc.uba.uva.nl/ctz/vol68/nr04/art02 http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...t%3D20%26um%3D1 I'll pay the $20 to whomever can properly identify it as a barnacle. Otherwise until you know the exact species, it's all just opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan September 27, 2009 Share September 27, 2009 Bob, Have you checked out this site? I've visited it many times for information on how to set up a sump and refugium, but had no idea until David told me about that it had detailed instructions on how to get rid of AEFW's. check it out. http://www.melevsreef.com/aefw.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman September 27, 2009 Author Share September 27, 2009 Well, this is extremely interesting (and cool that I now get 20 bucks). It's a Pyrgomatid coral barnacle. Turns out that Bob has something special. Mike Frick (The barnacle guy) said you (Bob) should get these to Mike Henely at the zoo because specimens like these are pretty much priceless to people like him. He said live specimens are extremely hard to come by. The white one is dead, but the others are alive! He's said he's going to get some info together for me and send it to me. I'll post it here when I get it. Good research - mine turns up the possibility that this one has never been discovered/named. There was one recently discovered on Acropora Brueggmanni (Cantellius cardenae spec. nov.). However, all of my research indicates that the coral in question is an acropora nobilis. As these particular Pyrgomatidae seem to sometimes be coral-species restricted - if this one is restricted to acropora nobilis, it might be mine, all mine! Cantellius cardenae spec. bob. The frags pictured previously have died; but while I was dipping acro's yesterday, I took some pictures (better - but I just have a little point and shoot; my daughter has her Pentax off to college with her). This colony isn't doing GREAT - but it appears to be surviving; and I removed a beastly little polp-eating acro crab from it, which might help. Anyhow - I think there is little doubt of what they are from these pictures. Might as well give up that $20 now! I hereby identify this as an acropora barnacle (Pyrgomatidae) with a scientific name of Cantellius cardenae spec. bob. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8 2 RISE September 27, 2009 Share September 27, 2009 (edited) lol, I didn't research, I just asked the barnacle expert. He's pretty eager to get his hands on these. EDIT: Just got this message from him: (also sending him your new pics along with the fact that it's an acropora nobilis. Pyrgoma kuri is an example of a Pyrgomatid Coral-Inhabiting barnacle. Just from what you've shown me they look like they're a part of the Pyrgoma cancellatum complex. The photo of P. kuri is from Ross and Newman (2000). http://dpc.uba.uva.nl/c/ctz/images/vol68/n...6804a02fig2.jpg Edited September 27, 2009 by L8 2 RISE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k September 27, 2009 Share September 27, 2009 Good job, Bob. The $20 is yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan September 27, 2009 Share September 27, 2009 The $20.00 goes to coralhind/David. Don't be a sore loser butt head Rob. David took on the bet. It's his $20.00. Gosh what are we going to do with you!!! Good job, Bob. The $20 is yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k September 27, 2009 Share September 27, 2009 No one is being a sore loser. Bob was the one that correctly identified it. Everyone else had opinions but no strong evidence. The $20 was for anyone to claim that had proof to back up his/her statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind September 27, 2009 Share September 27, 2009 The original bet was if it was a barnacle or a limpet. It has now been proven to be a barnacle as I had said it was from the start. Just admit you lost and pay up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikryd September 27, 2009 Share September 27, 2009 I've got $20 to say that know one here knows what they are talking about. These are definitely LIMPETS, not barnacles. Just because they didn't move in this instance, doesn't mean thay are barnacles. Maybe when Bob dipped the acro, it killed the limpets in the process and they just died whre they were.Barnacles do not have mantles. That is a dead giveaway that it is a limpet, not to mention the shape of its' shell and the 'keyhole' at the top. I don't suppose any of you barnacle 'experts' looked this critter up anywhere. did you? Like I mentioned before, there is a blurb about these particular types in J.Sprungs' book, "The Reef Aquarium". Any takers on the $20? C'mon, an easy $20 for you barnacles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k September 27, 2009 Share September 27, 2009 I'm not saying that I didn't lose. It just seems to me that Bob proved his argument more than anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L8 2 RISE September 27, 2009 Share September 27, 2009 I'm not vying for the money here at all, because, like everyone else, I believe Coral Hind deserves it because he took you up on your bet. On top of that, he did put in evidence to prove his points that is entirely relevent: Every diagram of a barnacle I find on the net says they do have a mantle. http://scienceillustration.org/gallery/ima...le_anatomy2.jpg http://www.reefsanctuary.com/photopost/sho...to/1510/si/crab http://data.aims.gov.au/waAesthetics/serva...060S&zone=4 And you're "come back" at this evidence: 2 of these links talk about and show the barnacles as being embedded in the corals' skeleton. Bob's critter looks like a snail sort of critter with a mimic mantle. Was AFTER Bob had said that these were EMBEDDED in the coral skeleton. THEN, I found out that it was a "pyrgomatid coral barnacle" below from Mike Frick. This was the next STRONG piece of evidence that should have been more than enough for you to realize that this was a barnacle and that CORAL HIND had won the bet. Well, this is extremely interesting (and cool that I now get 20 bucks). It's a Pyrgomatid coral barnacle. Turns out that Bob has something special. Mike Frick (The barnacle guy) said you (Bob) should get these to Mike Henely at the zoo because specimens like these are pretty much priceless to people like him. He said live specimens are extremely hard to come by. The white one is dead, but the others are alive! He's said he's going to get some info together for me and send it to me. I'll post it here when I get it. AND THEN, Bob was able to use the fact that these were pyrgomatid barnacles (coral inhabiting barnacles) to farther his research. Good research - mine turns up the possibility that this one has never been discovered/named. There was one recently discovered on Acropora Brueggmanni (Cantellius cardenae spec. nov.). However, all of my research indicates that the coral in question is an acropora nobilis. As these particular Pyrgomatidae seem to sometimes be coral-species restricted - if this one is restricted to acropora nobilis, it might be mine, all mine! Cantellius cardenae spec. bob. The frags pictured previously have died; but while I was dipping acro's yesterday, I took some pictures (better - but I just have a little point and shoot; my daughter has her Pentax off to college with her). This colony isn't doing GREAT - but it appears to be surviving; and I removed a beastly little polp-eating acro crab from it, which might help. Anyhow - I think there is little doubt of what they are from these pictures. Might as well give up that $20 now! I hereby identify this as an acropora barnacle (Pyrgomatidae) with a scientific name of Cantellius cardenae spec. bob. bob So really, now you're trying to give Bob the $20 for building off of the info everyone else gave him even though he came into this saying that they were limpets and wasn't even IN on the bet. It was a bet between you and Coral Hind that these were either limpets or barnacles respectively. Then, when you KNEW that they were barnacles and that you were going to have to give up 20 bucks either way, you made it a competition of who could figure out what species it was (which, oh by the way, I definetly don't think we've accomplished for sure yet) so that you wouldn't have to admit that you lost your bet to Coral Hind. This is child's play (says a 16 year old with 3 year old twin sisters and a 10 year old brother). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k September 27, 2009 Share September 27, 2009 (edited) Wow- I didn't realize there were so many rules to this "bet" that I made. I simply stated that whomever could prove that these were barnacles would get $20 from me. I clearly was wrong in identifying that they were limpets. Bob is the only one that clearly identified the species of the barnacles and the fact that it really is a barnacle. CH didn't clearly identify anything. He posted some informative links, but no positive ID. Winner goes to the person that PROVED that the critter wasn't a limpet, but a barnacle. Opinions are statements made without the basis of facts. CH had a theory that it was a barnacle but couldn't provide enough evidence for a proof. If Bob says I should pay CH, then I will. Otherwise I'm paying Bob. Edited September 27, 2009 by zygote2k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan September 27, 2009 Share September 27, 2009 LOL, my kids at age 4 and 5 would try to do stuff like this when they lost or when one was right and other wasn't. They outgrew this living in the id mentality by the time they were 10. Says much about a persons character. Waste of time. I'm not vying for the money here at all, because, like everyone else, I believe Coral Hind deserves it because he took you up on your bet. On top of that, he did put in evidence to prove his points that is entirely relevent: And you're "come back" at this evidence: Was AFTER Bob had said that these were EMBEDDED in the coral skeleton. THEN, I found out that it was a "pyrgomatid coral barnacle" below from Mike Frick. This was the next STRONG piece of evidence that should have been more than enough for you to realize that this was a barnacle and that CORAL HIND had won the bet. AND THEN, Bob was able to use the fact that these were pyrgomatid barnacles (coral inhabiting barnacles) to farther his research. So really, now you're trying to give Bob the $20 for building off of the info everyone else gave him even though he came into this saying that they were limpets and wasn't even IN on the bet. It was a bet between you and Coral Hind that these were either limpets or barnacles respectively. Then, when you KNEW that they were barnacles and that you were going to have to give up 20 bucks either way, you made it a competition of who could figure out what species it was (which, oh by the way, I definetly don't think we've accomplished for sure yet) so that you wouldn't have to admit that you lost your bet to Coral Hind. This is child's play (says a 16 year old with 3 year old twin sisters and a 10 year old brother). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman September 27, 2009 Author Share September 27, 2009 OMG!! Here I am on the edge of a world-changing scientific breakthrough, and you guys are diddling around over $20! I don't want no $20 - I want my honorary Marine Biology degree! Anyone here own a college? If someone actually wants to get their hands on one of these - I will TRY to pick a place where I can frag one off without destroying the symmetry of the coral. That's what the original frags were for. Guess I should have put one in alcohol before they all died. I have a really great 'dead' specimen for him, so he can count the humps and bumps and measure the hole, etc. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k September 27, 2009 Share September 27, 2009 Ok- then I guess it goes to the Hind. All yours whenever you'd like to drop by and collect. I'll be out of the country Oct 2-10th though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveoutlaw September 27, 2009 Share September 27, 2009 I think it's a barnacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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