Months of struggle (high res pictures, sorry long post)

[epleeds]

9 hours ago, Javed Aman said:

If there is any interest in my aquabiomics report--here it is. Too late to really matter, but everything is dead except for a few corals (in another tank now) and the clean-up crew. My biodiversity awful (Vibro took over), and there was apparently some bacterial fish pathogen too. I emailed aquabiomics, hopefully they'll send me an eDNA report on the dinoflagellates (if I really had them).

aquabiomics.pdf 245.9 kB · 7 downloads

Did they tell you how you could have treated for the vibrio?  Is it something as easy as adding competing bacteria?  Or using something like Cipro to kill it. 

[smokythemattman@gmail.com]

I suspect this is going to be the case in my tank when my test results come back as well. Fwiw dipping my colonies in antiobiotics seemed to help more than doing nothing but it seemed like a week later the infection/problem would resume. I am hoping my test results are similar to yours. Sucks. Its a new cause of rtn/stn that just in the past couple years has gotten more noticed. I tried adding rock from my other tank, multiple kinds of new bacteria and it didnt matter. Im going to tun a softie heavy tank for a year or so and retest the bacterial makeup. Id be curious if you also did the same

[Javed Aman]

1 hour ago, TeslaWasRight said:

javed, i'm so sorry to read this whole thread.  really sucks.

 

rather than throw the old rock away, is it possible to cook it?

I thought about it, but to be honest. I don't know if there was anything on the rock that might have promoted all of this from happening. I bought this rock from another hobbyist. The rock was outside in the backyard for a couple of years. I don't know if something contaminated it. Most likely it is safe and fine, but frankly it just feels like bad juju. 

 

47 minutes ago, epleeds said:

Did they tell you how you could have treated for the vibrio?  Is it something as easy as adding competing bacteria?  Or using something like Cipro to kill it. 

Unfortunately they didn't. I was pretty disappointed with the kind of information they gave. The issue is while I have vibrio, I don't have the strains known to harm coral (further down in the report). My tank had the worst balance (3 percentile). Keep in mind I started with dry rock and bacteria bottles. For a couple of weeks before the test I was adding about 12mL microbacter7. The corals always reacted negatively. There is a chance that the vibrio bacteria was more effective at consuming the carbon source that came with the microbacter7 than the strains in the bottle--total speculation though. 

 

 

[Javed Aman]

12 minutes ago, smokythemattman@gmail.com said:

I suspect this is going to be the case in my tank when my test results come back as well. Fwiw dipping my colonies in antiobiotics seemed to help more than doing nothing but it seemed like a week later the infection/problem would resume. I am hoping my test results are similar to yours. Sucks. Its a new cause of rtn/stn that just in the past couple years has gotten more noticed. I tried adding rock from my other tank, multiple kinds of new bacteria and it didnt matter. Im going to tun a softie heavy tank for a year or so and retest the bacterial makeup. Id be curious if you also did the same

Right now I have about 4 corals in a 10 gallon, just chilling. I think next time I start a tank it will be with all live rock. No more dry rock barebottom, the tank is just too unstable and it's clear from the results the diversity and the balance goes out of wack even after two years. 

[howaboutme]

Another option you can try is dry rock but cycle it the old fashion way. No bottle bac, just ghost feed or some other ammonia source and then just use time to allow your tank to develop. So many benefits of using dry rock to dismiss it (easier aquascaping, knowing exactly what you put into your tank, etc). Seeding w/ live rock w/ the remainder being dry is okay too.

[Javed Aman]

All other tanks I started either began with all live rock or dry rock with live sand. With the "old fashioned" dry rock method using something like ammonia chloride where does the bacteria come from? 

I'd also like to add, Aquaponics emailed me telling me there was a bug in their first report. They have since corrected it and apparently, my diversity score wasn't so bad. I'm even more stumped now...

aquabiomic2.pdf

[howaboutme]

11 hours ago, Javed Aman said:

All other tanks I started either began with all live rock or dry rock with live sand. With the "old fashioned" dry rock method using something like ammonia chloride where does the bacteria come from? 

 

It comes from the various items you choose to put into the tank as part of your overall plans such as snails, frags/corals, any live rock or live sand (to support the dry rock), cheato, pods, etc. The old fashion way.

 

One more thing. If you think about how this hobby has evolved. All of the products these days are here to support our overall lack of patience and need for super fast results (I'm guilty of that at times).

Edited May 17, 2021 by howaboutme

[Javed Aman]

Well I was saying it logically doesn't make sense to me  to start a cycle with dry rock, barebottom,  and ammonia-chloride. BRS agrees, they recommend live rock, or dry rock with live sand. 

Water + dry rock + ammonia with no bacteria should have no cycle because none of the bacteria strains from the ocean exist in that closed system. Don't we usually cycle a tank before adding CUC, corals, frags? Especially when we put a detectable amount of ammonia in it to begin with? 

I understand if you used something like raw shrimp, which may have encysted bacteria in it from the ocean likely some denitrifying type. Live rock seeding could be a source of that seed bacteria and you would have to wait for it to grow to a sustainable population. 

[howaboutme]

Sorry, don't confuse what I was suggesting with the actual process of cycling your tank. Cycle tank first and use the ammonia source of your choosing, shrimp, ghost feeding, etc....Live rock seeding (true live rock with no die off) can usually mean you can skip your cycle or at least shorten it. Then have fun adding snails, frags, etc. You'll eventually get your diversity. It just takes longer. Therein lies the issue in today's world. Who likes to wait?

 

Also, I'm only providing suggestions so you'll have to make the right decision for your tank based on all of the information available.

[Javed Aman]

Oh yea, I was just trying to clarify. Thank you for the suggestions!

[Javed Aman]

So I've slowly began rebuilding my tank and am at the point again where I can keep SPS (for at least a couple of months so far). I suspect three things happened:

 

1. Starting with dry rock the tank just wasn't particularly stable. Having zero nitrates/phosphates at certain periods caused issues with dinos, but I think the wild swings and me tinkering trying to fix it effed it up. No more bacteria dosing. I removed the stupid Marine pure blocks and threw some live sand in the sump and things seem much better. 

 

2. Lights were too bright!!! I have 3 x G4 XR15 with 4x 48" T5 over a 75 gallon. Running the LEDs at +70% was frying everything. My Seneye PAR meter was under measuring the PAR too. My SPS haven't browned out at 37%! I'm slowly ramping them up hopefully up to 45%ish. 

 

3. I used the waterpik on the rocks. While it's fantastic for cleaning frags, it has a tendency to pulverize the surface of the rocks, likely releasing a bunch of nasties including but not limited to hydrogen peroxide. 

[howaboutme]

That's great to hear! Keep up the good work.

 

Curious what you think you had your PAR at previous and what you think you have it now? I'm interested because I'm not fully believing the generality that "SPS need high light" and that in reality it depends.

[Javed Aman]

11 hours ago, Javed Aman said:

 

3. I used the waterpik on the rocks. While it's fantastic for cleaning frags, it has a tendency to pulverize the surface of the rocks, likely releasing a bunch of nasties including but not limited to hydrogen peroxide. 

Meant "hydrogen sulfide" not hydrogen peroxide.
 

3 hours ago, howaboutme said:

That's great to hear! Keep up the good work.

 

Curious what you think you had your PAR at previous and what you think you have it now? I'm interested because I'm not fully believing the generality that "SPS need high light" and that in reality it depends.

I've added my name to the list for the PAR meter for that reason. If I remember right, the bottom of tank was reading around 50 par and the top was around 300. Since I'm currently able to keep SPS on the bottom of the tank and can only grow coralline only in the shaded areas, I suspect in the past the bottom was actually 250 (right now it's probably 150ish). At the top, where it was probably 500+. But I won't know of sure until I get the PAR meter.