Reefkeeping (Philosophic) Principles?

[KingOfAll_Tyrants]

I also posted this elsewhere, but I wanted to post this on my home board here at WAMAS.  This is sort of inspired to origami's post on price being the bottom line (?) as well.   I almost put it in the conservation subforum, but decided it's a bit broader than that.  

 

The talk about bans - Hawaii, Fiji, a possible ban US ban on the sale of giant clams a few years ago that was shot down, and the hullabaloo in Indonesia -  and the like got me thinking. 

 

What kind of principles could we agree on?  I was thinking about something that could be kind of like a manifesto for political defense, but that’s too much for now I think.  I’m just thinking aloud for now.

 

I think lowest common denominator stuff I think most people could agree on include:

 

• we will care for our purchased animals (and plants!) for life as much as possible.   We will give them a good environment.  We will give our fish ample room in our tanks. (harder for corals because most corals, if well cared for, will inevitably outgrow the biggest aquarium.  But they can be fragged easily)  We will keep their water clean.  etc.

 

• we will buy hand caught wild specimens, which do not employ cyanide, explosive, etc. in the collection process or which otherwise damage the original environment.   If we buy wild corals, we will buy them from vendors who carefully, responsibly, and sustainably frag them.  

 

• We will buy from shops who treat their animals well, who do not simply “flip fish before they die in a few days”, and from vendors who minimize fish deaths from collection to retail store. (comment: I read an article a few weeks ago that a well managed saltwater aquarium fishery can reliably have loss rates around 1-2%.   https://reefs.com/2018/03/14/sobering-new-data-on-aquarium-industry-survival-rates/)

 

• we are interested in and care for the wild populations and their environment.  (comment: many of us snorkel/dive as well)

 

Some things that I think that not everyone may agree on:

 

• I do not mind catch or harvest limits if an area’s fishery is of questionable sustainability.  

 

• I do not, from a philosophical/ethical POV, really care if, given all the above, an animal is wild caught (with all the caveats above), maricultured (raised in controlled areas in the sea), or aquacultured (for these purposes, raised in commercial aquaria in the country of sale).  

 

• I do care from a practical point of view.  I want my livestock to come as directly from the source to me as possible.  I have worked directly with a collector, kpaquatics, to send fish directly to me by fedex.   I would prefer to get my clownfish, if not quarantined by a retailer, directly from ORA.   I am told that the mortality rate from non-aquacultured corals, for all but experience coral keeps, is much higher than for aquacultured ones.  

 

• I also believe that a healthy source location saltwater aquarium collection/mariculture industry will help the locals who love their reefs take care of them, and make those who don’t care value it more than they otherwise would (and hopefully they won’t use explosives to catch fish for industrial food fishing, or dredge up their lagoons to build stuff on the land, or cut up corals heads and live rock to serve as construction mateirial, etc.)

 

• I also believe the poor aquaculture or mariculture can have negative environmental impacts.  The case of Banggai Cardinals becoming massively invasive in Thailand due to aqua/maricultured invidduals being inadvertently, we hope, released - while being critically endangered in Banggai  is an example.

 

• I believe that learning how to do captive breeding for each species, as well as an appreciation for, and knowledge of, the local environment your pets come from, is an inherent part of the aquarium hobby.  These breeding attempts (which for reef fish generally require bio-lab or public aquarium level facilities) also are the basis for future aquaculture.

 

• I think this way because that is what Tropical Fish Hobbyist magazine was when I subscribed to it in the late 1970s.   All the time there were reports from the field about where fish lived/were collected.  As well as articles lionizing people who made the substantial effort to be the first to breed all kinds of things, especially odd things like the wood cat (Trachelyopterus fisheri) or bichirs (Polypterus ornatus), and even freshwater needlefish (the first breeding and fry raising attempt in the 70s sounded like quite an effort for that TFH writer, talking about running around everywhere trying to get other fish fry to feed the needlefish fry).     The recent successful breeding of corals at the Horniman museum, and the prospect of ornamental genetic engineering of coral larvae, is exciting.  

[Origami]

Wow. I truly appreciate the thought that has gone into this. My original thoughts on the other thread only shined a dim light onto your idea of having a personal creed as a cornerstone of responsible participation in the hobby. It's part of what I wondered when I asked whether acquisition cost was the only (or overwhelmingly dominant) factor in our buying decisions. This idea nails it. Thank you.

I'd like to propose consideration be given to principles that encourage captive breeding research and industry. As we've seen, more and more the collection industry is being threatened by outside influences (e.g. legislated bans). The development of a robust captive breeding industry helps establish a more independent and stable footing for the hobby that detaches itself from these influences.

Added note: As written, one principal listed above seems to limit purchases to wild-caught specimens. I'm guessing, though, that your intent was to capture a principle that applied when buying wild-caught specimens.



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[KingOfAll_Tyrants]

Wow. I truly appreciate the thought that has gone into this. My original thoughts on the other thread only shined a dim light onto your idea of having a personal creed as a cornerstone of responsible participation in the hobby. It's part of what I wondered when I asked whether acquisition cost was the only (or overwhelmingly dominant) factor in our buying decisions. This idea nails it. Thank you.

 

I'd like to propose consideration be given to principles that encourage captive breeding research and industry. As we've seen, more and more the collection industry is being threatened by outside influences (e.g. legislated bans). The development of a robust captive breeding industry helps establish a more independent and stable footing for the hobby that detaches itself from these influences.

 

Added note: As written, one principal listed above seems to limit purchases to wild-caught specimens. I'm guessing, though, that your intent was to capture a principle that applied when buying wild-caught specimens.

 

 

 

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Thanks, Tom. Yeah, that bullet was not meant to mean only wild caught specimens, of course.  (as you can tell, I didn't proof read perfectly  )

 

That should read

 

"when buying wild specimens,  we will buy hand caught specimens".

 

This has been something I've thought about for many months now, but it was actually your thread plus the recent string of bans that got me actually writing this down.  

 

Yeah, again captive breeding is an important part of this.   Learning how to do it is a must.  Unfortunately, sometimes people I think say that "captive bred/aquacultured must be better", which I don't think is necessarily a shut-and-dry case.  I tried to address that in the second set of bullets, which honestly is more personal opinion vice anything that I think everyone would necessarily agree on.   

 

I also worry that 100% captive breeding - e.g. via a ban - would not only dramatically raise the price of commercially available specimens (with the danger that the local frag market would undercut any decent scale coral aquaculture), but also potentially decrease the quality and diversity of what is available, which I think is a loss for the hobby as a whole.   That being said, captive breeding has many benefits - e.g. someone in the DC are buying a wild ocellaris vs. an ORA, Biota, etc. one.   

 

FYI, I don't think I posted it here - a Smithsonian magazine article that touches upon the ups and downs of wild harvest vs. cultured.

 

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/why-you-can-walk-store-and-buy-nearly-extinct-animal-180968892/

[Origami]

While it's far less difficult, captive breeding in the freshwater hobby is the standard which transformed the industry supply chain. That's a point I recall Ret Talbot making years ago when speaking to us about critical changes needed to preserve the future of the saltwater hobby.

 

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[ScooterTDI]

My principles are as follows:

 

1) Only keep relatively site-attached fish. After doing a fair amount of diving, I realized how inadequate our aquariums are for fish that may cover miles of reef on any given day. A giant swarm of blue tangs is amazing to behold and isn't something we can recreate at home. As such, I try to only keep fish that would stay within a reasonably small patch of reef on any given day.

 

2) If a fish/coral I want is available as aquacultured/captive-bred, I buy aquacultures/captive-bred regardless of cost.

 

3) I generally try to only buy wild-caught fish if there is a reasonable chance I could breed it. I'm a little loose on this one, but the sentiment is to avoid a consumerist attitude toward livestock.

[KingOfAll_Tyrants]

1) Only keep relatively site-attached fish. After doing a fair amount of diving, I realized how inadequate our aquariums are for fish that may cover miles of reef on any given day. A giant swarm of blue tangs is amazing to behold and isn't something we can recreate at home. As such, I try to only keep fish that would stay within a reasonably small patch of reef on any given day. .

Interesting idea, scooter!. What fish do you keep, then, and why?

 

( I don’t mean this as a challenge. I’m just interested, and want to hear more)

[treesprite]

+1

I'm also interested in hearing more.

[ScooterTDI]

I've kept clownfish, blennies, gobies, dragonets, jawfish, pipefish and seahorses. I want to keep fish for which I can observe a close approximation to their natural behavoir at home. In the wild, all of those have a pretty small range in a given day. I generally avoid tangs, angels, butterflies, anthias, etc.

 

Some fish are borderline and I would consider them in a large tank. In the wild, you often see groups of many different fish all clustered around a big brain coral head in the middle of a sand flat. If I had a 300g+ I would consider a pair of small butterflies and some chromis with a large bommie type aquascape meant to recreate that sort of lifestyle.

Edited May 7, 2018 by ScooterTDI

[Matt LeBaron]

I think some of the export issues that have arisen in the past 5-10 years have brought the issue of captive bred vs wild caught to the forefront of the conversation for salt water aquarists, which I think is a good thing. There are *a lot* more captive bred fish now than there were even 2-3 years ago and we seem to be on a really solid trajectory right now as far as increasing that number even further as we develop a better understanding of the breeding and raising of the salt water fish. I truly hope that in the nearish future the salt water side becomes like the fresh water side where virtually everything is captive bred. That will just be better all around IMO as it results in healthier fish better suited to captivity with less of an impact on the wild populations.

 

I agree with the original post on most thing except the one about not caring where the live stock comes from with the caveats that it is done in a way friendly to the animal and the environment. Honestly captive bred fish are just healthier and better suited to captivity. This goes back to a point I made in Origami's original thread is that our ability to care for sick fish is currently abysmal, we're diagnosing by sight (so you better hope it is something you can see) and a good source of treatment information is next to impossible to find without serious extensive research. Given all that I think the best way to reduce fish mortality in the hobby is for captive bred fish that are less likely to get sick and better suited to captive life to be the norm.

 

I recently lost my last Pajama Cardinal after 6 years so I have been looking for new fish to live in my 90G with my FoxFace and Chromi (Yes one, you can buy as many as you like, you'll end up with one eventually which is why I am never buying these again) and have decided that I am sticking to captive bred fish going forward. My first addition currently in QT is a captive bred Orchid Dotty back, they're eating well and after 2 days have started associating me with dinner time and now comes up to the front of the tank when they see me standing there.

[KingOfAll_Tyrants]

I've kept clownfish, blennies, gobies, dragonets, jawfish, pipefish and seahorses. I want to keep fish for which I can observe a close approximation to their natural behavoir at home. In the wild, all of those have a pretty small range in a given day. I generally avoid tangs, angels, butterflies, anthias, etc.

 

Some fish are borderline and I would consider them in a large tank. In the wild, you often see groups of many different fish all clustered around a big brain coral head in the middle of a sand flat. If I had a 300g+ I would consider a pair of small butterflies and some chromis with a large bommie type aquascape meant to recreate that sort of lifestyle.

 

That's fair.  But even a clownfish can have quite a wide range in the wild (though of course nothing compared to a tang).   I prefer having a decent size tank for the fish; so for tangs I'm in the 6ft+ tank crowd.  

 

A tank dominated by a big coral head, or a big tabling coral, would be an awesome idea, I think.  

 

 

 

I agree with the original post on most thing except the one about not caring where the live stock comes from with the caveats that it is done in a way friendly to the animal and the environment. Honestly captive bred fish are just healthier and better suited to captivity. This goes back to a point I made in Origami's original thread is that our ability to care for sick fish is currently abysmal, we're diagnosing by sight (so you better hope it is something you can see) and a good source of treatment information is next to impossible to find without serious extensive research. Given all that I think the best way to reduce fish mortality in the hobby is for captive bred fish that are less likely to get sick and better suited to captive life to be the norm.

 

I recently lost my last Pajama Cardinal after 6 years so I have been looking for new fish to live in my 90G with my FoxFace and Chromi (Yes one, you can buy as many as you like, you'll end up with one eventually which is why I am never buying these again) and have decided that I am sticking to captive bred fish going forward. My first addition currently in QT is a captive bred Orchid Dotty back, they're eating well and after 2 days have started associating me with dinner time and now comes up to the front of the tank when they see me standing there.

 

On the surface, a preference for captive bred fish makes sense.  But I think in the end it comes down to the fish.

 

Some species - damsels, clowns, banggai and PJ cards, for instance - are very easy (i.e. economical) to breed in captivity and rear because they have a short larval/pelagic stage, which grown in shallow, protected lagoons.  

 

Others aren't - I'm thinking of fairy wrasses (I'm not seeing anything on the Marine Breeding Initiative about captive breeding attempts), tangs, firefish, etc.  They have long pelagic larval stages which open ocean type conditions to grow well.  VERY hard to simulate this.   And maybe in all but very large aquaria the male and female will often kill each other.  

 

Finally, some are easy to raise in captivity, but the demand for them is not strong.  Yellow headed jawfish are one - on paper they should be as popular a fish as damsels, clowns, cards, etc. (save for the 4" of sand necessary for them).  I'm not sure that demand for them is economical enough to breed.  

 

And again, properly collecting post-larval stages of common fish in sustainable quantities is perfectly environmentally sound. I again think of kpaquatic's collection of the jawfish - I'd imagine their total annual sales is 1-2000 fish.  They can only collect them maybe 6 months a year.   I don't see any reason to aqua or mariculture this fish under those conditions.  I again chose them because I could order directly from their holding tank to my door in 24 hours, which I like.  (same thing with certain aquaculture shops, of course).  

[Matt LeBaron]

I think the scientific and hobbyist communities will need to sort out the breeding of even difficult to breed fish sooner rather than later if we want to continue to keep some of these fish in the hobby. There is growing pressure to restrict wild collection of all types and I don't foresee that reversing itself in the future. Mortality rates from wild collection are just to high to be sustainable in the long term I think, especially as pollution continues to endanger the ecosystems that these fish live in. Wild collection for the hobby isn't generally the reason for declining fish populations but after their natural environments are badly damaged by the pollution pulling 100 fish out of those already damaged ecosystems so that 10 make it to the fish store and then if we're lucky 3-4 survive long term in captivity is not a sustainable model.

 

Also in the very long term captive breeding of some fish may be the only thing that keeps them from going extinct unless the human race gets its crap together and stops trashing the planet.

 

I think that if the breeding of fairy wrasses is ever figured out it will be a boon for the hobby as I think you will get a bunch of very interesting mixes similar to what has happened with clown fish in the past 10 years. Jawfish are awesome little guys but the DSB requirement is a turn off to most hobbyists, which is why demand is so thin for them.

[Origami]

I think the scientific and hobbyist communities will need to sort out the breeding of even difficult to breed fish sooner rather than later if we want to continue to keep some of these fish in the hobby. There is growing pressure to restrict wild collection of all types and I don't foresee that reversing itself in the future. Mortality rates from wild collection are just to high to be sustainable in the long term I think, especially as pollution continues to endanger the ecosystems that these fish live in. Wild collection for the hobby isn't generally the reason for declining fish populations but after their natural environments are badly damaged by the pollution pulling 100 fish out of those already damaged ecosystems so that 10 make it to the fish store and then if we're lucky 3-4 survive long term in captivity is not a sustainable model.

 

Also in the very long term captive breeding of some fish may be the only thing that keeps them from going extinct unless the human race gets its crap together and stops trashing the planet.

 

I think that if the breeding of fairy wrasses is ever figured out it will be a boon for the hobby as I think you will get a bunch of very interesting mixes similar to what has happened with clown fish in the past 10 years. Jawfish are awesome little guys but the DSB requirement is a turn off to most hobbyists, which is why demand is so thin for them.

 

If we believe this (and I do), then part of making this (captive marine fish breeding) happen is to create the economic incentive for this industry to develop and flourish. For consumers, that means giving preference to suppliers of captive bred specimens. In doing so, we become the "early adopters" that help to develop the critical technologies, methods, and infrastructure that are needed for future advances. Until then, though, the whole supply chain for many specimens remains vulnerable to restrictive policies and legislation, often driven by anti-collection / anti-industry forces. Developing the captive-breeding industry positively serves both sides of the issue. 

[sen5241b]

"In ocean" coral farms are proliferating in Indonesia and other places. Sustainability is the most important thing.