Help need advice quickly!

[dpassar12]

Sorry for a new thread related to another thread http://wamas.org/forums/topic/78793-where-did-i-screw-this-up/I wanted people to see this thread quickly because at this point I need to do something very soon. 

 

So quick overview of my system... total water 830 gals 3 rows of tanks I have the ability to control ( shut down ) each row., 

Row 1... 8 ft frag tank  8ft Frag tank 2 29 gal refugiums and a sump underneath. 

 

Row 2.... 3ft frag and 8ft frag underneath 2 29 gal fuges underneath tanks

 

Row 3 ..... 100 gal fuge and 180 display..  

 

a link to a short video I just took off my fish room to give a better idea of my setup http://www.screencast.com/t/xayRYy0NqG 

 

 

I can shut down each a row and drain it. I can also run row 3 independent row 1 and row 2 and the sump under row 1.

 

I have 50 gals RO in storage tank and 30 gals of saltwater ready. My RODI can produce 150 per day.

 

I have changed about 200 gals of water over the last 3 days... 

 

I have lost most of my SPS and what is left looks like they are in the process of dying.. 

 

My softies and LPS Fish slugs mussels macro algae  urchins pods all seem fine.. 

 

1st, is there something will kill only SPS or worst case SPS faster than everything else. I am thinking the pickling lime might have been contaminated. ( just guessing becasue the amount that actually went into the system was 4 gals of a very watered down 20 gals auto top off The highest my PH ever reached was 8.1 it normally ran 7.9-8

 

2nd, Should I drain each row and replace all the water moving corals to other rows the back after each row is drain? Will i run into a problem with coralline algae dying and spike nutrients etc etc.. 

 

3rd, Will I run into issues essentially running my system with brand new water. Now keep in mind live rock can be moved to new water tanks but there will be some old water i'm sure still in nooks of rocks. I don't have time to dry off rocks.. Will this be an uncycled system with all the water replaced?

 

4th, Should I just keep doing water changes every day, 60 -90 gals.. If I do this then how do I know when whatever it killing my SPS is gone?

 

5th, What is the fastest time I can mix salt and pump into my tanks. I usually mix overnight and add sometime the next afternoon. 

 

6th, Any other ideas that I am missing. Keep in mind I am limited in water production to 150 gals per day + 80 gals ready + what I could buy like natural sea water in petco etc etc. I have never crashed a tank so not sure what the f@#$ to do here.. I have a lot or coral (hundreds of different types)  more than most normal reefers keep. 

 

Other Misc stuff.. I would need to fill row one complete before starting sump again.. I have power heads so I can keep the water moving in each row even though they get shut done... Row three can run on its own bypassing main sump.. Should I shut my lights off ? Could that be making the bleaching worse? 

 

Please give me some advice I am monitoring this thread but may not respond right away.. I have tested all my parameters and nothing is off, my Alk through all of this has not gone below 8 or over 10..  I have made no other changes to my system other than normal monthly and weekly maintenance Charcoal replaced, skimmers cleaned etc. Also no livestock has died that would crash a system.. I don't have anything that could do that anyway.

 

I have lost 1000s of dollars worth of corals, It's not the money, several of my corals I have grown from finger nail size frags into softball sized colonies over the last few years and am just sad I have lost them. I really want to keep what is left alive. 

 

Thanks Dan  

 

     

[davjbeas]

Do you have a reactor you can run carbon in? Also can you be sure you don't have a large alk swing or maybe AEFL?

What did you alk test results say? Also did lighting intensity increase which might harm the SPS?

 

David

[gmerek2]

Most pests are species specific. Flat worms only affect acropora. They won't eat birdnests, stylos, pocilloporas etc. I would throw pest idea out the window now if those are affected/sick. The worst problems with SPS I have seen are usually traced back to alkalinity fluctuation. The problem is stuff doesn't start showing symptoms until weeks after the accident. So it's very difficult to pinpoint SPS problem causers after they show symptoms. My LPS never seems to care about alk fluctuation

Edited July 8, 2016 by gmerek2

[Origami]

Looking at your last post and assuming, worst case that you added 4 gallons of saturated kalkwasser to your 850 gallon system, you would have raised your alkalinity by 2.1 dKH which, over the course of 24 hours. That's not huge, but it's not insignificant. Starting at your historical baseline of 9 dKH and assuming that all other systems were operating normally to maintain that level, you would have raised this baseline to about 11 dKH. Again, not horribly bad under most circumstances. However, you may want to note that high alk and ultra low nutrient levels have been known to trigger bleached tips in SPS and worse. If you run an ULNS (ultra low nutrient system) - these systems typically used carbon-dosing, zeovit, or other approaches to keep phosphate and nitrate levels at zero or practically-undetectable levels - you may have triggered this by elevating the alk as you did.

 

That may be unlikely, though. 

 

Is there a pattern to the die-off? Either at the colony level (like from the tips to the core) or at the tank level (started in one place and expanded outward)?

 

Has anything else happened in the environment? Did somebody open the windows beforehand while possibly spraying an insecticide or an herbicide outside? Anything that you can think of?

[dave w]

+1 for the carbon.  Use it everywhere.  Also, your system is capable of being run as three separate systems, I'd split the systems apart and do a total water change on one to see if that helps.  

 

These are just guesses, of course.  Another guess is that something died and released toxins.  Do you have any softies? Toadstools? Sea Cucumbers?

[dpassar12]

I run carbon, in fact I changed it right before all of this happened. So it is only about a week old. I use 1/2 cup total  of  GFO mixed into my  3 carbon reactors. I have run that same combination for 9 months. My lights have not changed. My tank temp has not changed. Not sure where pests came into the conversation but I don't know of any that would eat this many different types of SPS. 

 

The bleaching was not from bottom up or tips or top down. It was literally the entire colony goes from perfect to bleached in 24 hrs. No pattern that I can tell the first to go was a rainbow monti. II noticed the color was much more blue than normal. I thought there was a bit of algae on it and i took a baster and gave a squirt and the entire color just blew off. There was a bit of life around the edges so I moved it into the shade and drained my drained the ATO right at that point and did a water change. It was completely dead by next morning. Many Acros were completely bleached the following morning as well . Then the millis went the. Today my huge sunset monti is looking ill and i'm sure it will be dead by morning. All of my monti caps are going to be dead by morning. It's been about 86 hours. give or take since I stopped dosing.

 

I have 2 cucumbers they are alive and kicking. 2 nems 1 carpet and 2 BTAs are fine. The ventilation system is one way to the outside nothing would be able to get into the room from the outside no windows. no paint chippings no screws rusting. I am the only one in the room so outside contamination from people is unlikely. I checked all the pumps/heaters/powerheads for shorts. Conductivity  right at 36  +-.5. Only odd thing is my skimmers are collecting more than normal and the skimmate is light green and watery. Normally much darker and thicker. Have not changed food in type or amount. I have a few leathers they are the colonies before water drains out of a Row one. If they were releasing toxins it would have to get by a protein skimmer then filter pads then run through 3 carbon reactors another filter pad and possibly another skimmer before getting to my display tank which has seen losses. 

 

I also double checked to make sure there was no recall on the pickling lime and weighed the remains today just to be sure I added what I thought i did. 

 

I don't think I have choice but to drain each row and and replace all of the water.. I can't think of anything else.

 

[zygote2k]

Have you calibrated your ph probe(s)? Maybe they were drastically off?  What was alk and cal before and after?

You can use freshly mixed saltwater as long as it is clear. I do large water changes on the 500 using saltwater that has been mixed for 30 minutes without any noticeable effects.

Maybe you should get a polyfilter and throw it in for good measure?

[Origami]

Polyfilter's a good suggestion. If there is something there, it may help identifiy it.

 

Monti's are not acros, so it's clear that this isn't something like AEFW. Also, AEFW act much more slowly. It really sounds like something really bad happened suddenly with the chemistry.

 

You might try cutting back on your light and dropping the temperature of the tank a few days to slow the metabolic processes down some. Maybe it'll give you a little more time to make those water changes.

 

Good luck. It's hard watching stuff turn like this.

[dpassar12]

Well I just finished my water changes tonight. I was able to shut down each row and drain and clean the tanks. I had 400 gals of salt in my water room but still had to reorder 3 more boxes. I moved all of my corals into the center tanks and put a skimmer in there. seemed to workout ok while i

cleaned, moved frags, colonies, fish and filled each tank. This was not fun. I left about 16 inches or water in my 180 display tank and 3 inches in my rubbermaid  fuge. Trying to save the pod population ( I have mandarin goby). Thanks for the advice...

 

Dan