Local Vendor support

[Larry Grenier]

Just something to think about...

 

If you can find it at a reasonable price locally; buy it locally rather than over the net. We're fortunate to have good local "reef-shops" where we can shop and they need our support to stay in business. BRK diversified into marine stuff and F&F is reallying getting into it. Marine Scene has been around a while so must be doing something right. These are sorta local to me, I hear of some up in Maryland also. Hats off to you folks and I hope you stay in business a long time a prosper :77: . I could be just a nice guy wishing for your success or just looking-out for numero uno... OK both

[martin]

Just something to think about...

 

If you can find it at a reasonable price locally; buy it locally rather than over the net. We're fortunate to have good local "reef-shops" where we can shop and they need our support to stay in business. BRK diversified into marine stuff and F&F is reallying getting into it. Marine Scene has been around a while so must be doing something right. These are sorta local to me, I hear of some up in Maryland also. Hats off to you folks and I hope you stay in business a long time a prosper :77: . I could be just a nice guy wishing for your success or just looking-out for numero uno... OK both

 

I agree. BRK is about internet prices, and other stores as well.

[Larry Grenier]

I agree. BRK is about internet prices, and other stores as well.

 

Especially if you consider shipping cost. I will still buy some things on-line if the price is really great.

 

Just think what it would be like if on-line was the ONLY source :( :computer:

[quazi]

We are lucky to have these guys, and we need to support them. I am amazed at people putting together Internet orders, hassling with money, arranging pick-ups, dealing with mortality issues on the shipments.

 

Some folks have said they are downtown and it is too far to drive 1/2 an hour to the sticks for fish and corals. It seems to me that the hour round trip drive pales in comparison to the hassles of a large internet order.

 

Here are the services the good LFS shops are providing:

 

- Custom ordering

- Handling mortality issues

- Quarantining (sp?)

- Pricing very competitively to the Internet sites (F&F and BRK)

- Providing good advice and service

- Allowing you to see the item before you take it home

 

This is a really great set of services. Supporting these guys and making sure that these excellent services stay local is vital to the success of our local hobby.

 

These guys understand the power of WAMAS and bring a lot to the table. Please support them. It makes economic sense for all of us.

[johnnybv]

We are lucky to have these guys, and we need to support them. I am amazed at people putting together Internet orders, hassling with money, arranging pick-ups, dealing with mortality issues on the shipments.

 

Some folks have said they are downtown and it is too far to drive 1/2 an hour to the sticks for fish and corals. It seems to me that the hour round trip drive pales in comparison to the hassles of a large internet order.

 

Here are the services the good LFS shops are providing:

 

- Custom ordering

- Handling mortality issues

- Quarantining (sp?)

- Pricing very competitively to the Internet sites (F&F and BRK)

- Providing good advice and service

- Allowing you to see the item before you take it home

 

This is a really great set of services. Supporting these guys and making sure that these excellent services stay local is vital to the success of our local hobby.

 

These guys understand the power of WAMAS and bring a lot to the table. Please support them. It makes economic sense for all of us.

 

Thanks guys for all your support! If you want to do bulk orders let me know, I may be able to help. Look at the Instant ocean offer, $35 a 200 gal box when purchased in Quantity.

John

[Guest clownfish4]

Yes, but you still can't beat live aquarias 14 day guarantee...although nothing I have purchased from BRK has died.

[Caribbean Jake]

LiveAquaria has 14 days

and Saltwaterfish.com just improved theirs to 15 days.

 

how can anyone beat that?

[Sharkb8]

I've lived in several states and I have to, respectfully, disagree. The last critters group order was well worth the effort. No DOAs and huge savings. There are many variables to discuss in the balance of the decision to buy locally versus on-line. To name a few, economics, selection, convenience, quality, and individual vairables like level of individual disposable income, personal preferences in livestock, and geographic/mobility limitations, to name a few.

 

Don't get me wrong, I do see the positives of shopping locally, and I don't want to bash any local store. I respect the knowledge, skills and motivation of any business professional willing to face the huge challenges of operating a marine store around here. Frankly, I don't know how they can manage to post profits with the costs of doing business in this area. Cost of living is super high here because real estate is super high. Locally-owned stores are handicapped by the economics. Its not their fault. The only store I've seen that can compete here in price is the national chain type stores and their quality is often not worth the savings.

 

The list of positives is nice, but here's my spin on it . . . as to custom ordering, how is that different from ordering it yourself in a group order to save on shipping? The mortality issues have been addressed. Quaranteening is done at home. Ok, prices may be similar, but factoring in the cost of driving 30 miles or more, the balance tips the other way in my book. Nothing substitutes for doing your own research. You can see the item and take it home only if it is in stock and you don't have to custom order it.

 

Anyway, I don't mean to be negative or for this to be an attack on anyone or any business, just totally only my two cents and my own personal opinion and experience. Of course, other people will respectfully disagree with me, and I respect that too. But as for me, I've seen better selection and prices elsewhere. Granted, this is not Florida, but the economic edge and improving quality of the on-line business is stiff competition. The mere fact that we have to have this discussion signals to me that there are problems.

 

I know next to nothing about running a business and all the sweat, blood and tears that goes into it. But I do know that last group order was a great deal and I've bought 95% of all of my equipment and livestock used from various people in the group or on eBay. If I could get new for a reasonable price, of course I would have bought locally. "Reasonable price" to me is relative to what I have in my wallet. This hobby is itself inherently expensive. Only those with the fatter wallets are able to buy new stuff at the glamorous showroom stores to satisfy their hobby bug. The rest of us, we opt for the outlet stores, and buy lots of lottery tickets (maybe that last part is just me :-)).

 

Another variable or issue to consider: is the issue really who should participate in the hobby and who shouldn't, based on who can afford it and who can't? Maybe those with tight budgets should save more and buy less and take more time in building quality, state-of-the-art systems instead of rushing into it and buying whatever we can afford at cheap prices, then upgrading when, and if, possible. Maybe that's really the issue here. Should only those who can afford to maintain livestock in the best possible environment participate? Maybe livestock would last longer, have better quality of living and be treated with more respect if the prices were driven even higher, to prevent abuse? Maybe this topic should go into another forum, but I think its a broader issue facing the hobby that is inherent in the issue of deciding whether to buy locally or not.

[F&Fmgr]

That is a very interesting thought....

 

I agree with several points youve made. Howver I disagree, as a shopowner and future e-commerce business, with two points.

 

The first is that internet companies can beat us out of business b/c of larger quantity, lower price, and bigger selection. I believe that my prices, as well as BRK prices(from what Ive heard, havent had the pleasure yet), are very competitive w/ the internet companies especially considering shipping. We cannot boast a 14 day guarantee, but I dont think we need to for two reasons:

1) we will not sell to anybody who we do not feel is competent and skilled enough to keep the animal alive

2)we take the hit on losses. Quarantining fish is neccesary and feasable...however until all fish are TR, some (although a small percentage) are lost...our job is to make sure you take home an animal that will have a happy and healthy life in your aquarium and not an animal that MIGHT make it. I would hope that online companies use the same level of discretion, but you be the judge

 

As far as quantity orders( I cant speak for john) but I know on quantity orders I can at least compete w/ online companies if not beat them. I do this only for WAMAS and GWAPA(FW) b/c I believe in endorsing these organizations and their goals.

 

 

the second would be a very opinionated point....sure the online delivery saves gas, but I personally like to see things before I buy them...fortunately the dist.'s I use mostly either posts pics of my order, has stock pics updated weekly or has delivered time and time again the same high quality and leave no room for sub-par aquarium specimens.

 

If anyone wants to do a gruop order ask your LFS...if they are worth their salt then they know that there is competition with online vendors and will price accordingly to get your business.

 

 

Just my own opinion.

 

Sean Gallagher

Fins and Feathers

[Sharkb8]

Yup, I'd have to add the caveat to my last post that I don't know if the person coordinating the critter group order checked with local places to see if they could match prices, once we had that whole order figured out. If you really want to run the numbers to see if you can beat it, here they are. But, I think there's more to it than just the numbers (listed is price per each before 10% discount):

 

emerald crab $4.00

small blue leg $0.35

med blue leg $0.83

scarlet crab $2.50

turbo $0.45

astrea $0.29

cerith $1.25

nass $0.72

nerite $2.00

bumblebee $1.67

star $4.00

ppmt shrimp $4.00

Royal gramma $6.00

lettuce nudi $7.00

 

Then take 10% off of those numbers and that's what we paid.

 

I checked out one local store's advertised prices and I think on my $90 order I saved about $60.

 

Edit: I just really want to say again I am not posting this to knock local stores. This is not meant as a challenge or to be derogatory in any way. I have the highest respect for anyone that has the skills to run a fish business in this area. I know I definitely don't. I wouldn't even know where to start. I'm just posting this as exampe data is all. Do with it what you will. In hindsight, we definitely should have called local stores to see if they could do this. I would have definitely been all for it if they could do it. In fact, it would be a great lesson to me if one of the stores posted in reply that they could have beat this package.

[johnnybv]

Yup, I'd have to add the caveat to my last post that I don't know if the person coordinating the critter group order checked with local places to see if they could match prices, once we had that whole order figured out. If you really want to run the numbers to see if you can beat it, here they are. But, I think there's more to it than just the numbers (listed is price per each before 10% discount):

 

emerald crab $4.00

small blue leg $0.35

med blue leg $0.83

scarlet crab $2.50

turbo $0.45

astrea $0.29

cerith $1.25

nass $0.72

nerite $2.00

bumblebee $1.67

star $4.00

ppmt shrimp $4.00

Royal gramma $6.00

lettuce nudi $7.00

 

Then take 10% off of those numbers and that's what we paid.

 

I checked out one local store's advertised prices and I think on my $90 order I saved about $60.

 

Edit: I just really want to say again I am not posting this to knock local stores. This is not meant as a challenge or to be derogatory in any way. I have the highest respect for anyone that has the skills to run a fish business in this area. I know I definitely don't. I wouldn't even know where to start. I'm just posting this as exampe data is all. Do with it what you will. In hindsight, we definitely should have called local stores to see if they could do this. I would have definitely been all for it if they could do it. In fact, it would be a great lesson to me if one of the stores posted in reply that they could have beat this package.

 

It was only a matter of time before I opened my big mouth....Sean has addressed all the main points, and I agree with every one of them so I will be short and sweet. In my experience buying things online, and not only speaking of livestock, I would say 80% of the time what I have received is in some way not exactly what I expected. Not a bad product, but just in someway a little different from what I had in mind. My experience buying livestock online is limited because I only did it once and got very small specimins, that were weak and stressed, and did not last more than a week, sure they had a gaurantee but what a pain in the butt to get a hold of someone that will help, and make it happen.

 

We the LFS order blind, from a sheet of paper with a bunch of names on it. There is not an order that goes by where at least 1 item was not what I expected or of good health and quality. We pick up at the airport, pay freight of about 40 bucks a box, take the losses, then continue to acclimate, treat, get eating and find a good home. So when you buy a fish from a reputable LFS you will pay a little more, but will get whole a lot more, if that is not the case you are at the wrong LFS.

 

As far as price, you may have heard this ad from microsoft, but it rings very true. (this is my rendition of what I heard not a direct quote)

you do not gain loyal customers with low prices, you will only gain people that will always look for the cheapest price with no loyalty. By charging a fair price and providing outstanding service and high quality products you will gain repeat loyal customers.

 

Just my 3 cents...

John

[F&Fmgr]

It was only a matter of time before I opened my big mouth....Sean has addressed all the main points, and I agree with every one of them so I will be short and sweet. In my experience buying things online, and not only speaking of livestock, I would say 80% of the time what I have received is in some way not exactly what I expected. Not a bad product, but just in someway a little different from what I had in mind. My experience buying livestock online is limited because I only did it once and got very small specimins, that were weak and stressed, and did not last more than a week, sure they had a gaurantee but what a pain in the butt to get a hold of someone that will help, and make it happen.

 

We the LFS order blind, from a sheet of paper with a bunch of names on it. There is not an order that goes by where at least 1 item was not what I expected or of good health and quality. We pick up at the airport, pay freight of about 40 bucks a box, take the losses, then continue to acclimate, treat, get eating and find a good home. So when you buy a fish from a reputable LFS you will pay a little more, but will get whole a lot more, if that is not the case you are at the wrong LFS.

 

As far as price, you may have heard this ad from microsoft, but it rings very true. (this is my rendition of what I heard not a direct quote)

you do not gain loyal customers with low prices, you will only gain people that will always look for the cheapest price with no loyalty. By charging a fair price and providing outstanding service and high quality products you will gain repeat loyal customers.

 

Just my 3 cents...

John

 

 

Well said John...

only to add one more thing, we (john, I and other LFS) will almost always order for special requests and if you dont like it or decide not to take it home, then we, LFS, keep the animal and find another home for it. You cant deny the level of customer service that provides. I dont think online livestock sellers take animals back or provide the above mentioned service. just my two cents, hope it wasnt too bold

 

Thanks

Sean

[Caribbean Jake]

F&F and BRK prices are competitive, shure you can find the same specimen for less on line or on another MD store, but do you get the 0ne-on-one attention as a customer, the respect you deserve as a buyer, and the support you look for when purchasing a living creature knowing that it will survive when you get home and get to enjoy it for years to come if you treat it well. Their livestock is not over priced like other LFS in the area, there quality is at par with WAMAS members come to expect, and most of all their customer service is A+, cause the moment you walk into John or Sean business place you feel you are appreciated as a customer, not just another dollar sign $. This has been my experience with all other LFS, it is MHO and take it for what it is worth... nothing.

 

Thank you Sean. Thank you Byron. Thank you Johnny - for your continuing effort and dedication to your businiess, it is reflected in the way you have treated me every single time I step into your store. Thank you.

[johnnybv]

F&F and BRK prices are competitive, shure you can find the same specimen for less on line or on another MD store, but do you get the 0ne-on-one attention as a customer, the respect you deserve as a buyer, and the support you look for when purchasing a living creature knowing that it will survive when you get home and get to enjoy it for years to come if you treat it well. Their livestock is not over priced like other LFS in the area, there quality is at par with WAMAS members come to expect, and most of all their customer service is A+, cause the moment you walk into John or Sean business place you feel you are appreciated as a customer, not just another dollar sign $. This has been my experience with all other LFS, it is MHO and take it for what it is worth... nothing.

 

Thank you Sean. Thank you Byron. Thank you Johnny - for your continuing effort and dedication to your businiess, it is reflected in the way you have treated me every single time I step into your store. Thank you.

 

Sweet Jake, thank you!

john

[Larry Grenier]

Another quick $.02

 

I was in BRK the other day and asked about a particular common dry-goods product that all reefers have and was honestly told I could do better on-line.

 

I saw an interesting fish at BRK and stood-around with another guy asking questions and had them feed him before I bought him. I like to see what the fish looks like and how it's acting.

 

I still buy things ocasionally on-line but prefer good customer service and would like to see these guys stick around even if I'm only window-shopping.

[F&Fmgr]

thanks alot for the support guys...means alot.

 

Cheers

Sean

[BeltwayBandit]

Just to echo many of the sentiments already mentioned. I am thrilled that we have LFS that are willing to bend over backwards and give us A+ customer service. I will gladly pay a little bit more for the convenience of being able to pick up a critter that has already gone through some screening/quarantining and my own observation over ordering blind on line. I also am willing to support these stores because I know in an emergency I am 30 minutes away from a solution should i need a reef specific part not 2 days away for a fed ex. For those reasons I am willing to pay a little (and in many cases neglibly) more to support local businesses.

 

For the record I have been to many of the area LFS (USA, Roozens, Marine Scene, Reef Tank, Fins and Feathers, and Blue Ribbon Marine). In my opinion BRK and F&F have hands down the best customer service and the best livestock in the area.

 

BB

[Guest Larry-T]

From my own experience, I tend to order bulk products that do not require careful handling online. So I deal a lot with ThatPetPlace and Aquatic EcoSystems. I have only ordered a few livestock items online and have been somewhat dissapointed in every case. It's the same whether I order from a large distributor or an Aquabid seller. With all the local choices (stores and club members) I really see no point in ordering livestock that will be stressed out from unknown shipping factors before I get it. I also do not order perishable (frozen) food online. If I really need a large quantity and the best selection, I'll drive up to ThatPetPlace (which I consider vitually as local as most of the VA stores) and bring a cooler filled with Ice in my trunk.

 

That being said, I'm considering makeing a run up to TPP sometime in May - most probably the 13th.

[JMsAquarium]

All in all, this is a very interesting thread.

I, as many others have already said, prefer to buy locally, more particularly when what I buy is live stock. Why? Because:

1- What I see is what I get.

2- In most cases the item has already been quarantained, treated, acclimated etc.. before being put for sale. At least it is the case at BRK, and I am pretty sure that it is at F&F as well (I haven't had the pleasure to visit Sean's yet).

3- Whether it is live stock or dry goods/equipment, LFS will gladly give you a quote with no obligation if you ask them. That refers to point 1 above. Moreover if it is bulbs I am buying. Which means that for a close match to online prices, I don't have to deal with the hassle of returning/exchanging broken bulbs. Then the local sales tax is usually less than the shipping and handling charge fro online stores. My gas expenses are never a factor and the reason is in my #4 and #5 below.

4- This is a two way deal. IMO if I (and others) support the local stores, they will be able to continue to offer us decent pricing.

5- Last but not the least, I enjoy my trip to local stores and chitchat with the staff/owners.

 

Thank you BRK and F&F,

 

Jean-Marie

[johnnybv]

Our pleasure!

 

All in all, this is a very interesting thread.

I, as many others have already said, prefer to buy locally, more particularly when what I buy is live stock. Why? Because:

1- What I see is what I get.

2- In most cases the item has already been quarantained, treated, acclimated etc.. before being put for sale. At least it is the case at BRK, and I am pretty sure that it is at F&F as well (I haven't had the pleasure to visit Sean's yet).

3- Whether it is live stock or dry goods/equipment, LFS will gladly give you a quote with no obligation if you ask them. That refers to point 1 above. Moreover if it is bulbs I am buying. Which means that for a close match to online prices, I don't have to deal with the hassle of returning/exchanging broken bulbs. Then the local sales tax is usually less than the shipping and handling charge fro online stores. My gas expenses are never a factor and the reason is in my #4 and #5 below.

4- This is a two way deal. IMO if I (and others) support the local stores, they will be able to continue to offer us decent pricing.

5- Last but not the least, I enjoy my trip to local stores and chitchat with the staff/owners.

 

Thank you BRK and F&F,

 

Jean-Marie

[Larry Grenier]

Watch-out, now J-M is going to expect to be treated special ;-)

[JMsAquarium]

Watch-out, now J-M is going to expect to be treated special ;-)

 

ABSOLUTELY :77: :2thumbsup:

[EricBrian]

Thanks guys for all your support! If you want to do bulk orders let me know, I may be able to help. Look at the Instant ocean offer, $35 a 200 gal box when purchased in Quantity.

John

 

Ok, so who do I sign up with for this?

[johnnybv]

Ok, so who do I sign up with for this?

That was a group buy last month.

[EricBrian]

That was a group buy last month.

 

Dang... Missed it. Hope I am in on the next round.