Squishie89 November 7, 2014 November 7, 2014 (edited) I am setting up a 90g temporary system in my basement and I am having problems with the sump it came with. I have attached a video. Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong? Sometimes it splashes so much it splashes outside of the sump. http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c68/Dcksgomoo/90g%20Saltwater%20FOWLR/th_20141106_201539_zps32egovem.mp4 Click the link to view the video. I was having problems with the tank slowly draining into the overflow which I somewhat fixed by removing the mesh I had silicone to the overflow and also took out the water height adjuster that was in the overflow. And the last problem which is mostly solved is that the return will start to back siphon once the return has been turned off. I seemed to have found the sweet spot for the return nozzle to sit at so it will not be under water shortly after the pump has been turned off. Edited November 7, 2014 by Squishie89
YHSublime November 7, 2014 November 7, 2014 You're draining way to much way to quickly. The answer is going to be a video of what your drain looks like, not the end of it. Your return will back siphon when the pump is off regardless. The only "fix" to that is a check valve.
Squishie89 November 7, 2014 Author November 7, 2014 You're draining way to much way to quickly. The answer is going to be a video of what your drain looks like, not the end of it. Your return will back siphon when the pump is off regardless. The only "fix" to that is a check valve. Okay I will get those photos for you, thank you! My display tank has return nozzles that stay under water, no check valve and I don't have back siphon. Very strange.
John Ford November 7, 2014 November 7, 2014 Is there a siphon break in your display tank? Okay I will get those photos for you, thank you! My display tank has return nozzles that stay under water, no check valve and I don't have back siphon. Very strange.
John Ford November 7, 2014 November 7, 2014 (edited) Your drain seems to be the same size as your return line. Do you have a way to make your drain pipe larger? That may slow the water down so its not being forced into your sump Edited November 7, 2014 by John Ford
CaptainRon November 7, 2014 November 7, 2014 I always drill a little hole in the lock line return in my display to make a siphon break. Than and keep the out flow as close to the surface as I can as well.
Squishie89 November 7, 2014 Author November 7, 2014 (edited) Not sure if this helps but this is a Deep Blue tank and I ordered the overflow kit off Amazon which came from Deep Blue. I am working on a video that shows the whole system both off and on. Is there a siphon break in your display tank? Pardon me if I say anything stupid, plumbing is not my strong suit. The siphon does stop in my tank. I am not sure if there is a hole drilled on there, it is standard marineland overflow kit. Your drain seems to be the same size as your return line. Do you have a way to make your drain pipe larger? That may slow the water down so its not being forced into your sump The drain is 1" and the return is 3/4". I was thinking maybe the drain pipe should be shorter and just under the surface? I always drill a little hole in the lock line return in my display to make a siphon break. Than and keep the out flow as close to the surface as I can as well. Yeah I will need to check and see if my display/marineland tank has a hole there to stop the siphon. Edited November 7, 2014 by Squishie89
fishgate November 7, 2014 November 7, 2014 What is the problem? Looks like you have plenty of drainage which is what you want. If it is too much, crank back your return pump with a gate valve. You could always cover that section so the splashing is contained. Another method is to redo the plumbing piece that ends in the sump. Make it longer (more spread out) and with holes in it to spread out the drain water.
Origami November 7, 2014 November 7, 2014 Is there a siphon break in your display tank? I always drill a little hole in the lock line return in my display to make a siphon break. Than and keep the out flow as close to the surface as I can as well. +1. A siphon break can be implemented with a little hole in the return line, typically just below the surface of the water (though I've sometimes done it inside of an overflow cover for some reef-ready tanks and just zip tied a little filter foam over the hole to break up the resulting stream). The hole lets air into the return line when the water level flows and breaks the siphon early. What is the problem? Looks like you have plenty of drainage which is what you want. If it is too much, crank back your return pump with a gate valve. You could always cover that section so the splashing is contained. Another method is to redo the plumbing piece that ends in the sump. Make it longer (more spread out) and with holes in it to spread out the drain water. +1. All good solutions. Reduce the turnover if it's unnecessarily high. Or use a bubble box or diffuser at sump end. BTW, I can't get to your video using your link. It says something about it being deleted or renamed.
Squishie89 November 8, 2014 Author November 8, 2014 I FINALLY got all the videos to load. Thank you all for your help. Here is what the sump is doing (same video that was in the first post)http://squishie90gfowlr.tumblr.com/post/102050601320 Here is the system when not running http://squishie90gfowlr.tumblr.com/post/101987569655 Here is the whole system running http://squishie90gfowlr.tumblr.com/post/102068691945 I did re-attach the overflow water height adjuster on its lowest setting, so far no change. I am going to play around with it more and see if a higher level might change things.
CaptainRon November 8, 2014 November 8, 2014 Can you change your current drain setup to a durso? If you take off the screen and put on a 90, facing down, and drill a small hole in the cap you should eliminate much of the sacking sound that's coming from the screen (I didn't have sound when I watched the video, just assuming). It also looks like you could afford to reduce the flow. Also, how deep is the drain line in the sump? It looks like you might be able to shorten than as well. Or maybe add a bend in the tubing first for testing purposes before cutting. Good luck
Squishie89 November 9, 2014 Author November 9, 2014 Can you change your current drain setup to a durso? If you take off the screen and put on a 90, facing down, and drill a small hole in the cap you should eliminate much of the sacking sound that's coming from the screen (I didn't have sound when I watched the video, just assuming). It also looks like you could afford to reduce the flow. Also, how deep is the drain line in the sump? It looks like you might be able to shorten than as well. Or maybe add a bend in the tubing first for testing purposes before cutting. Good luck Thank you for making me realize what the "extra" 90* elbow was that came with the overflow kit, what an idiot I am!! Unfortunately it did not change anything. I am going to try again as sometimes when you make a plumbing change it takes a time or 2 for it to work. I was thinking about shortening the drain pipe, and I may try that bend because it would be a huge PITA to replace that pipe at this point. Thank you so much for your help, really really appreciate it.
CaptainRon November 9, 2014 November 9, 2014 Stick a valve on the output of your pump and try dialing it back a little bit. See if that makes a difference - at least that'll tell you something almost immediately.
Squishie89 November 9, 2014 Author November 9, 2014 (edited) Stick a valve on the output of your pump and try dialing it back a little bit. See if that makes a difference - at least that'll tell you something almost immediately. Thank you so much. I have 3/4" tubing for the return. Super duper stupid question(s) time. How would I put a valve on it? I assume cut the tubing and put a valve between the 2 pieces of tubing? Can you point me in the direction of what kind of valve, please? Something like this? http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/spears-gate-valve-thread-x-thread-1.html Edited November 9, 2014 by Squishie89
CaptainRon November 9, 2014 November 9, 2014 Oh yeah, tubing. I forgot about that part. Not really sure what to do there. Maybe someone else can chime in. If not, a trip to Quantum Reefs would probably get that problem solved. Good luck! Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
Origami November 10, 2014 November 10, 2014 Like this, Jessica: http://www.avastmarine.com/ssc/do/product/valves/Barb-Valve
davelin315 November 10, 2014 November 10, 2014 Take a longer piece of PVC that is wider in diameter than your drain line (I would say 2" would be adequate unless you can get a thicker diameter in there, 4" would be better) and extend it above the lip of the sump by about 6". Drill some 1/2" to 3/4" holes along the bottom half of the submerged pipe and then just tuck your drain line into it dumping just above the water line. Your splashing comes mostly from the air that is being sicked into the overflow and down the drain line, causing it to mimic the action of boiling with the air bubbling up and taking water with it. This will effectively diffuse the water and allow the air to travel up the pipe to escape. I use something like this in my sump (free standing tube utilizing a flange - I think) as it was splashing and building up salt creep everywhere. Now the bubbling and splashing is minimized. My pump, by the way, is pushing about 2,000 gallons per hour through this contraption and does a great job. You also are not getting backflow from a siphon when it is turned off because the lip of the return is above the water, hence all of the air (plus the pump baffle looks like it is too low so air is being sucked in by the pump probably as well.
Squishie89 November 10, 2014 Author November 10, 2014 Like this, Jessica: http://www.avastmarine.com/ssc/do/product/valves/Barb-Valve Thank you, Tom! You are a life saver!! Take a longer piece of PVC that is wider in diameter than your drain line (I would say 2" would be adequate unless you can get a thicker diameter in there, 4" would be better) and extend it above the lip of the sump by about 6". Drill some 1/2" to 3/4" holes along the bottom half of the submerged pipe and then just tuck your drain line into it dumping just above the water line. Your splashing comes mostly from the air that is being sicked into the overflow and down the drain line, causing it to mimic the action of boiling with the air bubbling up and taking water with it. This will effectively diffuse the water and allow the air to travel up the pipe to escape. I use something like this in my sump (free standing tube utilizing a flange - I think) as it was splashing and building up salt creep everywhere. Now the bubbling and splashing is minimized. My pump, by the way, is pushing about 2,000 gallons per hour through this contraption and does a great job. You also are not getting backflow from a siphon when it is turned off because the lip of the return is above the water, hence all of the air (plus the pump baffle looks like it is too low so air is being sucked in by the pump probably as well. I know the water level is a bit low in the return but it was not sucking air. I will keep this in mind (took a few reads to understand it), thanks so much Dave!!
Shoelace November 10, 2014 November 10, 2014 I would suggest two options. The first was mentioned above with the durso. The important thing is to have the air vent to prevent air lock which is causing the big rushes of air which is making the return line into your sump pulse. One way I have found that helps is by putting a long piece of tubing down the air vent at the top of the durso cap so that air is introduced further down the column. The guys at glass-holes.com showed me that trick. It's like this, but the pvc would be in your corner overflow. Do you have dual overflows in your tank? One in each corner? Since you are taking the time to reboot the tank (like what I did a year ago ), you might want to look into creating a bean-animal conversion. If you have two overflows and four holes, you can do a 1) return 2) siphon 3) durso 4) emergency setup.
Squishie89 November 10, 2014 Author November 10, 2014 I would suggest two options. The first was mentioned above with the durso. The important thing is to have the air vent to prevent air lock which is causing the big rushes of air which is making the return line into your sump pulse. One way I have found that helps is by putting a long piece of tubing down the air vent at the top of the durso cap so that air is introduced further down the column. The guys at glass-holes.com showed me that trick. It's like this, but the pvc would be in your corner overflow. Do you have dual overflows in your tank? One in each corner? Since you are taking the time to reboot the tank (like what I did a year ago ), you might want to look into creating a bean-animal conversion. If you have two overflows and four holes, you can do a 1) return 2) siphon 3) durso 4) emergency setup. Well this is a temporary set up to hold my fish and inverts while I take down my display tank and re do it with dry rock and quarantined inverts/fish/corals to keep pests out (currently infested with hydroids). That is an interesting idea about the air line tubing further down, I will look into that, thanks! Does anyone know if the hole at the top of the durso can be too big? I am not talking 1/2", but big enough for air line tubing (just in case the air line tubing bit doesn't work out).
CaptainRon November 10, 2014 November 10, 2014 I don't remember what happens when it gets too big - I think it just gets louder. If the hole does get too big, you can make it smaller - I just stuck a piece of tape over some of a hole in one can I drilled too much of. Or worst case, just buy another cap.
s2nhle November 10, 2014 November 10, 2014 you can also put a valve on the returned line. Go to any homedepot or Lowes (lowes referred since it get more plumbing and irrigation section) to get the valve and fitting for your tube. you can also extend a section of pipe about 1" under the water level in the sump. This will silence the splash. If that doesn't work you may need to slow the water down before it reaches the sump. Do this by installing a ball valve in line just before the sump connection so it's easy to reach and adjust. The trick with the ballvalve is to just start closing it enough that it creates an obstruction but not a clog. The ballvalve puts the brakes on the water just before it reaches the sump which reduces splash noise and bubbles. Hope it helps.
Origami November 10, 2014 November 10, 2014 I would never add a ball valve to a drain line as that's asking for a flood or, if your sump volumes are well designed, then it's asking for a dry return chamber and possibly a burned out return pump. If you're going to slow the flow in the drain, add the valve to the pressure side of the return pump. Don't reduce your drain's capacity with a valve on the drain side.
fishgate November 10, 2014 November 10, 2014 FYI: Whenever I use a ball or gate valve, I get a valve one size up from my pipe diameter then neck it down with the appropriate bushing. If you look at most ball and gate valves you will see that they are poorly designed and severly restrict flow even when fully opened (in relation to their stated size). The next size up usually ends up being the correct hole size for the valve diameter that you want. Home Depot typically does not sell all plastic valves. I have found them all at Amazon however.
YHSublime November 10, 2014 November 10, 2014 They are also some of the pricier plastic plumbing parts. FYI, quantum carries gate valves of various sizes on hand.
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