Cycling Question

[LanksTank]

Hey guys,

 

I wanted to run something past you and see what your thoughts were.  I plan on setting up my 90 gal in my living room at the beginning of next year, and obviously no one wants an empty where everyone can see it for a month or two.  I initially thought of using Dr. Tim's One and Only, BUT was turned off by the many posts I've read from people who have been in the hobby for many years and were advising against it.

 

My Solution:

I already have my dry rock and 60 gal of RO/DI water in my basement.  I was wondering if it would be possible to cycle the rock in my 32 gal BRUTE containers during the next month using a cocktail shrimp, and then transfer the rocks and most of the water to my main display when it is time to set it up.  I was thinking that if I already have my rock and 50% of my water cycled by January then I could eliminate or at least greatly shorten the amount of time I have an empty tank sitting in my living room.

 

I would plan on setting up two 32 gal containers with all my dryrock, heaters, pumps for flow, and a cocktail shrimp in each.  When I transfer everything over to my display I would mix the remaining 50% of the saltwater and add it in.

 

Thoughts?  Advice?

[Origami]

Yes. You can do that. Make sure that  you provide for a heater and flow in the containers. You may have to perform regular water changes, too. Test from time to time to make sure the water quality is decent during the curing process. There's no reason not to use Dr. Tim's during the curing. You may also have to ghost feed the cans during this time to provide nourishment for the bacteria that you're cultivating.

[Orion]

What kind of dry rock is it? If it's BRS Pukani rock it is has been known to have phosphates in it. Depending on the dry rock, and where it came from you may have to let it sit in RO/DI (no saltwater) for a couple of weeks. During that time test for phosphates. If you have nothing after a couple of weeks I would say go ahead and make the water saltwater, and use Dr. Tim's for a quick start. Dr. Tim's works great. I had no problem cycling my rock in 10 days. After a couple of months my dry rock has now become live rock. I tossed in pods, chaeto, and a couple of pieces of live rock from an existing tank to give it even more of a head start. I also ghost feed the Rubbermaid container a couple times a week, and run a small LED light on a timer for the chaeto.

[LanksTank]

Thanks Tom. Would 5-10% per week work for water changes?  And would I just use standard pellet food for ghost feeding?

[Origami]

Thanks Tom. Would 5-10% per week work for water changes?  And would I just use standard pellet food for ghost feeding?

That'll be fine. But monitor your parameters. Especially phosphate and nitrate. Pellet food is fine.

[LanksTank]

What kind of dry rock is it? If it's BRS Pukani rock it is has been known to have phosphates in it. Depending on the dry rock, and where it came from you may have to let it sit in RO/DI (no saltwater) for a couple of weeks. During that time test for phosphates. If you have nothing after a couple of weeks I would say go ahead and make the water saltwater, and use Dr. Tim's for a quick start. Dr. Tim's works great. I had no problem cycling my rock in 10 days. After a couple of months my dry rock has now become live rock. I tossed in pods, chaeto, and a couple of pieces of live rock from an existing tank to give it even more of a head start. I also ghost feed the Rubbermaid container a couple times a week, and run a small LED light on a timer for the chaeto.

 

Thanks, for the advice.  I ordered most of my dry rock from reefcleaners.com, but I also ordered some BRS pukani to add some variance.  Reefcleaners claims to clean and cure all their rock before shipment.  It looks pretty similar to BRS reefsaver, but its a fraction of the price.  

 

Should I hook up a media reactor with some GFO to help get rid of the phosphates while curing the pukani?

 

I'll definitely look into getting a bottle of Dr. Tim's to help things along once I know everything has cured.

[Origami]

Don't worry about a reactor. Just put in heat, flow and food. Let nature do the rest. Don't force the bacteria to compete for resources. They're what you're trying to develop.

[Origami]

Later, when things settle, add macro and pods. But let the bacteria start first. Think layers ... you're building the food web from the bottom up.

[LanksTank]

Sounds good,  thanks guys!  Very helpful.  I'll have to start working on this tomorrow.

[Orion]

You'll be off to a great start!

[LanksTank]

You'll be off to a great start!

 

Have another question for you.  Started cooking everything, but now I'm looking into ordering some Dr. Tim's online and didn't know what size to get.  I understand that most of the bacteria clings to the rock itself and not really the water, which sort of confuses me cause they size their bottles by how many gallons are in your tank...  If I'm setting up for my 90 gal do I go ahead and get the 8 oz bottle (treats up to 120 gal) or the 2 oz bottle (treats up to 30 gal) since I am cycling the rock in a 30 gallon container.  Maybe go with 4 oz bottle??  I don't know if there is a clear cut answer for this because I feel that no matter what size bottle you get, the bacteria should cultivate and multiply over time.  It should just take longer with a smaller bottle.  Thought I'd see what you did though.

[Orion]

Go with the 8oz bottle. According to Dr. Tim you can overdose the bacteria all you want. Dump the entire contents at once.

Be careful with the ammonia though. Too much and that can hurt the cycle.

 

Amazon.com sells it cheaper than Dr. Tim's website does.

Edited November 28, 2013 by Orion

[LanksTank]

Thanks Orion.  I decided to ditch the Pukani and just go with the reefcleaners rock because it has already been cured.  I didn't want to deal with any phosphate problems.

[Orion]

Great! I think you'll like that rock a lot.

Test every day, and follow the fishless cycling instructions on Dr. Tim's website.

 

 

[monkiboy]

Amazon.com sells it cheaper than Dr. Tim's website does.

his section on 3reef also has a coupon code for even better savings, if interested!

[LanksTank]

Ok guys, I need help... I added Dr. Tim's last night to my 32 gal container with my rock in it and I just checked my water parameters. My ammonia was 0, my nitrite was 0 and my nitrate was a little over 1 ppm.. I know Dr. Tim's is suppose to work miracles but this seems a little off to me. I'm about to run the test again. Any advice? I used an 8 oz bottle of Dr. Tim's which is good for up to 120 gal. Essentially 4 times what my container size is. I have been cycling my rock now for a week and a half so it had a little bit of ammonia in it prior to me adding Dr. Tim's.

 

 

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[YHSublime]

What do you need help with? Are you in a hurry to get this rock into a tank and going and you want to make sure it's ok?

 

Dr. Tim states that after 24 hours of adding "one and only" you're able to add fish, so seeing as your rock is only about 2 weeks in your holding container is smaller, it doesn't surprise me. I'm on the fence about Dr. Tims. I thought about using it for my 150 when I upgraded, but I went with seeding with a live rock (lots of live rock) and letting that do the trick.

[LanksTank]

I'm not in a hurry, but I just find it a little strange and wanted to see if anyone had similar results. This is my first tank so still trying to figure everything out. I figured it might be possible that it already cycled based on the amount of bacteria I added, but I wanted to ask what others think. Not sure if I should add more ammonia and test parameters again in another 24 hrs and/or do a water change to lower nitrate.

 

 

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[Orion]

Wait 24-36hrs and add more ammonia if you need to get it to 2ppm (I think that's the number you are looking for)

[Origami]

So refresh our memories here. At the start of the thread, you said you were starting dry rock. If there was no organic material on the rock to decay, you shouldn't see a nitrogen cycle because there's nothing to produce ammonia. Are you ghost feeding or doing something to increase the bacteria population that you seeded with Dr. Tim's? Did you do the cocktail shrimp thing?

 

What was the ammonia level when you dumped in the Dr. Tim's?

[LanksTank]

I started out with dry rock a week and a half ago and ghost fed it a couple times. I didn't add Dr Tim's till last night. Before I added Dr. Tim's my ammonia was about 0.25-0.5 ppm. I did about a 50% water change then added the ammonium chloride solution that comes with Dr. Tim's for fishless cycling. It says to add 1 drop for each gallon but I added a little more since I had so much bacteria. I measured my parameters after 24 hrs and got a nitrate reading of 1 ppm.

 

 

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[LanksTank]

Wait 24-36hrs and add more ammonia if you need to get it to 2ppm (I think that's the number you are looking for)

I looked this up on dr tims website. You don't actually have to get your aquarium water up to 2 ppm ammonia. The solution they give you is diluted to 2 ppm so obviously even if you added the whole bottle your water wouldn't go up to 2 ppm. He says to just add 1 drop per gallon and "if you don't see a spike in ammonia it's because the bacteria are working"

 

 

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[LanksTank]

Just redid all 3 tests.

 

 

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[Orion]

Add some solution to your aquarium, let it mix and then use your test kit to measure the ammonia concentration in the water. You want to have an initial ammonia-nitrogen concentration of 2 to 3 mg/L (ppm). Do not go above 5 mg/L.

 

Whatever the source of your ammonia, the following is the way to proceed. Add the ammonia solution to the aquarium so that the ammonia concentration is between 2 and 3 mg/L (but, as mentioned, do not go above 5 mg/L). Record the amount of liquid you added. If you are not using DrTim’s One & Only Live Nitrifying Bacteria, wait 2 or 3 days and measure the ammonia and nitrite. Continue measuring ammonia and nitrite every 2 or 3 days until you start to see some nitrite. This is a sign that the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria are starting to work. Add half the initial amount of ammonia you added to the water on day 1. Continue measuring ammonia and nitrite every 2 or 3 days. Around day 9 to 12, the ammonia will probably be below 1 mg/L, maybe even 0, but nitrite will be present. Nitrite does not spike until somewhere between days 14 and 20. You want to be careful adding more ammonia because you do not want the nitrite-nitrogen over 5 mg/L as this will start to poison the nitrite-oxidizing bacteria. Add a little ammonia every few days (1/4 dose), making sure the nitrite does not go above 5 mg/L. Once you start to see the nitrite decrease, it will drop pretty fast. The cycle is completed when you can add the full dose of ammonia (2 to 3 mg/L-N) and overnight it all disappears to nitrate with no sign of nitrite. Now you can start to add fish.

[LanksTank]

Add some solution to your aquarium, let it mix and then use your test kit to measure the ammonia concentration in the water. You want to have an initial ammonia-nitrogen concentration of 2 to 3 mg/L (ppm). Do not go above 5 mg/L.

 

Whatever the source of your ammonia, the following is the way to proceed. Add the ammonia solution to the aquarium so that the ammonia concentration is between 2 and 3 mg/L (but, as mentioned, do not go above 5 mg/L). Record the amount of liquid you added. If you are not using DrTim’s One & Only Live Nitrifying Bacteria, wait 2 or 3 days and measure the ammonia and nitrite. Continue measuring ammonia and nitrite every 2 or 3 days until you start to see some nitrite. This is a sign that the ammonia-oxidizing bacteria are starting to work. Add half the initial amount of ammonia you added to the water on day 1. Continue measuring ammonia and nitrite every 2 or 3 days. Around day 9 to 12, the ammonia will probably be below 1 mg/L, maybe even 0, but nitrite will be present. Nitrite does not spike until somewhere between days 14 and 20. You want to be careful adding more ammonia because you do not want the nitrite-nitrogen over 5 mg/L as this will start to poison the nitrite-oxidizing bacteria. Add a little ammonia every few days (1/4 dose), making sure the nitrite does not go above 5 mg/L. Once you start to see the nitrite decrease, it will drop pretty fast. The cycle is completed when you can add the full dose of ammonia (2 to 3 mg/L-N) and overnight it all disappears to nitrate with no sign of nitrite. Now you can start to add fish.

 

Orion, I read through your "cooking" thread and my rock seems to be following a cycling pattern similar to yours.  Plus, it helped with some additional questions I had.  It appears that I jumped the gun, but this is my first time doing this so I freaked out haha.  I don't know why, but it seems my ammonia chloride solution I got with Dr. Tim's isn't as strong as it should be, as I continuously added drops for several days (more than the 1 drop per gallon as per instructions on bottle) with little to no change in ammonia and no increase in nitrates.  On day 5 I finally started seeing some trace of nitrite (around 0.1) when my ammonia got up to 1 ppm, and on day 6 the nitrite appeared to have slightly increased.  So I guess I'm on track for the time being.