Help Chosing a Good Return Pump

[jackers]

While working late last night, my wife texted me saying the tank was making a weird noise. With my Apex and iPhone, I started isolating pumps until the noise went away. Unfortunately, it was my main pump. I started it back up and it was silent for a few hours. Once I got home, it started making the grinding noise again so I shut it down and turned it back on again, this time it only made it about 20 mintues before more noise. One more power cycle and it has been running silently all the way up until I left for work this morning.

 

So, the pump I used, I bought back in early 2009. It was a Blueline Velocity T1 pump and I loved it. It was super-quiet, had great head pressure (25') and great performance throughout the entire operating band. Problem is, it looks like the Blueline Velocity brand has gone out of business. I can't even find a used one on Ebay.

 

So I started looking for a new main pump last night. Now it seems like a lot has changed since 2009. Instead of worrying about head pressure (my pump is probably three to four feet below the return nozzles in my tank), now it seems people are trying to match their return pumps with their skimmer efficiency. I am an engineer, so I enjoy those types of calculations, I just haven't had time to look into it yet (probably more this weekend if the pump holds out).

 

Long story short, I'm wondering what return pump you use, internal or external (I don't have room for an internal one), and how you chose it.

 

Thanks!

[MBVette]

Tell us about your system, what size tank, sump, frag tanks?

[jackers]

Sorry about that.

I have an 85 gallon, flat back hex with a 15-20 gallon sump. I guess my total water volume is 75 gallons. I don't have any frag tanks attached, just the main tank and sump.

Edited February 22, 2013 by jackers

[Origami]

Looking on the 'net, it looks like the Blueline Velocity T1 was a pressure rated 590 GPH pump with a 3/4" MPT inlet and 3/4" MPT outlet. With such narrow plumbing, you'll probably have fairly substantial losses if you stick with the external and don't want to redo plumbing. It's too bad you're so far away as I could probably loan you an old Pan World NH-40PX that I have on the shelf to get you by while you figure which direction you're going. It has the same size plumbing connections and would be an easy swap.

 

Anyway, my first consideration when selecting a return pump is sump turnover. Maybe 3-8x per hour. So you're looking at a pump size of say 400-500 GPH after losses. So, you were in the right ballpark with the T1 that you had.

 

Since return pumps run 24 hours per day, a nice power efficient pump can save you in operating costs. In this size range, these may not have the same pressure handling capability of a pressure rated pump, so you need to consider if you're willing to re-do your plumbing in a substantial way to get these savings. If you are, a DC pump like a Waveline DC uses 25W and can be dialed in using the integrated controller to cover a range of flow rates from 400 to 800 gph (before pressure losses). This is a submersible. You can get Wavelines from our sponsor, Quantum Reefs. The Waveline's also have good volute design and seal, so it could be adapted to external use, too easily enough. Cooling is not an issue in external applications because these pumps run so cool anyway. I have two DC5000's running on my skimmer and they're out of the water and are cool to the touch. You would, in my opinion, should redo your plumbing if you wanted to use this pump.

[Rosco's Reefs]

I use eheim and love them. Bought it from Quantum Reefs as well. Could recommend them higher

[Integral9]

how about this one?

http://www.fishtanksdirect.com/browseproducts/BlueLine-Velocity-Pump-T1--540-gph-25%27-max-head.html

[jackers]

Thanks for the help. I definitely have to go external.

 

As for my plumbing, I would really struggle with changing it around. I have PVC piping for the return line, with check valve and ball valve. The plumbing is over four years old and I think I remember "glueing" it to my bulkhead fitting to prevent leaks. I honestly don't think I'll have much luck adding additional width due to the lack of room in the flat back hex cabinet.

 

Tonight after work I'm going to take your advice and run those turnover numbers against some other pumps. I'm sure I'll be back later with more questions.

[Oprah Wrangler]

I am using one of the pumps from the Waveline series and it is amazing. I think you would like it a lot.

[jackers]

Thanks for the recommendations. From talking with a guy who has run a ton of these Velocity pumps, I'm hoping I just have a calcium buildup. I haven't torn my pump apart since I got it back in early 2009. Granted, most of that time was on a FOWLR but I did start dosing back in September.

 

This is from a guy experience with these pumps. He has four running now, some of which have been going non-stop for five years.

 

"There is only one part in the pump, the impeller. The rest is a chuck of titanium with a ceramic "needle" bearing. They do however need to be cleaned on occasion because of the heat they generate, they can build up calcium. Since you keep your Ca levels around 420, then there is a good chance that the only problem with the pump is Ca build up and a good soak in vinegar for the impeller and the plastic volute is all that is needed. If there is some Ca buildup on the titanium bowl, then just put the pump on its end and fill the bowl with vinegar and let sit."

[Origami]

Here's something I also think about when it comes to return pumps, jackers: Operating cost.

 

The Velocity T1 draws 98 Watts. I'm not sure what your current electric rates are at your location, but let's say it's $0.147 per kWhr (the 2010 average for MD). This pump runs 24 hours per day, 7 days a week, 365.25 days per year and is costing you a hair over $126 per year to run. A pump that uses less power and is just as effective will save you money and pay for itself, but you need to consider how long it will take to pay for itself. So, for a pump that draws 25W will save you 75% (or about $95 per year). In the case of a DC3000 (cost ~$140 each), for example, the cost recovery period is 18 months. After that, it's money in your pocket.

 

So if the pump is dead, look for an efficient pump and consider energy use. You'll begin saving immediately since you're going to have to put out money to replace the pump anyway. If the pump is salvageable, you can still save money, but it'll take 18 months before the capital outlay is recovered (assuming no value in reselling the T1). Again, the DC3000 can be adapted for external use but I would consider bigger pipes to reduce friction losses before doing this. (You're paying a lot in operating costs today for that narrow plumbing, unfortunately.) You're only lifting the water 3-5 feet. A pressure pump with 25' of head pressure capacity is not really required. There are better fits.

 

If the pump is dead and you want an easy plumbing job, and find yourself closer to the Northern Virginia suburbs, I have a similarly sized Pan World pump that's not getting much use that i could sell you. 480 gph, 13.5' max head, 45 Watts - still more power efficient than what you're running today.

[jackers]

Here's something I also think about when it comes to return pumps, jackers: Operating cost.

 

The Velocity T1 draws 98 Watts. I'm not sure what your current electric rates are at your location, but let's say it's $0.147 per kWhr (the 2010 average for MD). This pump runs 24 hours per day, 7 days a week, 365.25 days per year and is costing you a hair over $126 per year to run. A pump that uses less power and is just as effective will save you money and pay for itself, but you need to consider how long it will take to pay for itself. So, for a pump that draws 25W will save you 75% (or about $95 per year). In the case of a DC3000 (cost ~$140 each), for example, the cost recovery period is 18 months. After that, it's money in your pocket.

 

So if the pump is dead, look for an efficient pump and consider energy use. You'll begin saving immediately since you're going to have to put out money to replace the pump anyway. If the pump is salvageable, you can still save money, but it'll take 18 months before the capital outlay is recovered (assuming no value in reselling the T1). Again, the DC3000 can be adapted for external use but I would consider bigger pipes to reduce friction losses before doing this. (You're paying a lot in operating costs today for that narrow plumbing, unfortunately.) You're only lifting the water 3-5 feet. A pressure pump with 25' of head pressure capacity is not really required. There are better fits.

 

If the pump is dead and you want an easy plumbing job, and find yourself closer to the Northern Virginia suburbs, I have a similarly sized Pan World pump that's not getting much use that i could sell you. 480 gph, 13.5' max head, 45 Watts - still more power efficient than what you're running today.

 

Man, those are some really good points. I need to do some digging around under my sump tonight to see how much work would be required to get that new plumbing installed. What size piping would I need? If I remember correctly (at work without being able to look), I ran a flex hose from the sump to the pump, about 1.5 foot. From there, I run a 3/4" female off the pump to 1" pvc piping (maybe 1.5") to my tank's return plumbing inside the overflow. What type of plumbing modifications would need to be done to adapt to the more efficient pump?

[Origami]

I like to go with the widest reasonable. On the pressure side, if you've only got one return in the tank, no less than 1" - but if you can run, say 1-1/4" along a stretch, all the better. What you're trying to do is reduce friction so expanding the size of the pipe, even in the middle stretch, is beneficial. On the suction side it's the same story. Come out of your overflows into a wider diameter pipe 1-1/4" or 1-1/2" if you're able. The principle is: Wider pipe = less friction for a particular length of tubing. Less friction = less waste = lower operating cost.

[Tracy G]

The DC3000 is a great option. Personally I have 2 of them on my tank (skimmer and return) and it is absolutely amazing.

[Oprah Wrangler]

The DC3000 is a great option. Personally I have 2 of them on my tank (skimmer and return) and it is absolutely amazing.

 

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