Will August 26, 2012 Share August 26, 2012 I have a 125gal tank and a 45 gal Sump. With rock, it holds about 100gallons of H2O. I can't seem to get my NitrAtes down from 40-80. I know they would and should rise, BUT to this level?? Ammonia and NitrItes are 0. Phosphates 0.04. The tank cycled by Aug. 12th. I used soap-free Ammonia and bottled bacteria to do this. I have been doing my own water tests. My Nitrate test only went to 4 so I thought this as high as test go. I did a 50% water change on the 14th without any noticeable change. On the 16th I took a sample to the LFS for them to test and get some fish. I plan on waiting a month before adding Corals. They told me the water was fine. I told him about my readings and he basically said don't worry about it. I asked about AND bought an Alkalinity test kit that goes up to 80. When I got home (with my 4 clowns, Macro Algae, and snails) I tested again and my Nitrates were >80! I got the 10 snails since he said that was fine to do. So far I don't "Think" I have any algae. I have a small film on the back wall and wave makers but feel it is more CaCO3. I was also told that there was no food to buy to feed the snails and they would find plenty in the tank. I went ahead and acclimated the fish and put them in. They seem to be doing fine.. eating and swimming all around. Yesterday I got my water delivery and did an 85% water change on the 24th. My Nitrates are still 40 plus. Next week I will do another 50% change. I read that bottled water can have nitrates so I tested mine it was between 0 and 5 on the two test kits. I am going to check this again for my own piece-of-mind. I also tried adding a solution that was supposed to decrease the nitrates but it did nothing. Why are my nitrates so high and how can I get them down?? Also the snails are acting weird. A few of them climbed the walls but most just stayed on the rock or sand where the landed when I put them in. They have their bodies out and some picked up some pieces of sand. I checked most of them that have their bodies out and they are alive. They retract when I come close or touch them. One did die, maybe two. I am waiting to see if it pokes it head out while I am watching. The one that died developed this big white coating bubble that covered the opening. What is that?? The last 2 things that happened were... My Alkalinity was 11 after the water change but the pH was only 7.6. I want to get it to 8.2 in preparation for corals. First I tried to add some baking soda to see if that would increase the pH but seemed to have the opposite affect and would also increase the Alkalinity. Then I added soda ash to increase the pH but I know the Alk will go even higher. How do I increase the pH without increasing the Alkalinity? Along with that, about 20-30 min after adding the soda ash my tank got cloudy. (ok, thats fine.. I read that would happen) BUT this time in about an hour, it caused this white film on the inside of my glass. I thought it "etched" my glass. That is what it looked and felt like. But it didn't. It is hard to get off but it is coming off slowly. What was that about??? Too much added at one time? Too high Alkalinity which will decrease Calcium's solubility? Not enough magnesium to stop Calcium Carbonate from precipitating??? and after all was said and down my pH DROPPED! Ugh! The alk and pH were fine using 2-part prior to the water change. Any ideas to make cleaning the inside of the glass easier? Can I use Vinegar on a rag without harming the water (besides possibly dropping the pH) or the fish? Thanks Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite August 26, 2012 Share August 26, 2012 Do you have liverock in your tank? If so, was it from a store fresh from the ocean or from someone's aquarium? Sometimes liverock leaches nitrate depending on where it has been. You could try an experiment to find out if the rock is the source by doing this little experiment: take some brand new clean saltwater which should have 0 nitrate, put some pieces of rock in it for a day, then do a nitrate test and see if it went up just from the rock being in it. One of the things that forces nitrate out of rock is Biodigest (a bacteria additive), so if it does turn out to be the rock, you might want to dose it just temporarily until the nitrate is under control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Country August 26, 2012 Share August 26, 2012 First thing I would ask is what test kit are you using? API test kit read 80 on my tank but with Lamotte test from Marine Scene was only 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS August 26, 2012 Share August 26, 2012 You got so many things going on it's hard to discuss without writing a book. Here are my 2 pieces of advice: 1) Stop doing anything to your tank. Let it settle down. The snails sound like they aren't happy. They may die but if you keep throwing chemicals in the tank and swinging your parameters around, it will only make them less happy and more dead. If you want, you can do some water changes but stop with the chemicals for now. 2) Come to frag fest tomorrow. There you can meet over 100 people, many of whom will have the answers you need. I guess the trick is to find out which ones they are among the 100. But you can learn more in an afternoon there than you will learn in a month reading. Find me if you want or just strike up a conversation with people and ask around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will August 26, 2012 Author Share August 26, 2012 Thanks Dave... I REALLY wish I could have gone today but I'm at work until 11pm tonight. I wish it would have been next weekend. Hopefully next time. I will do another 50% water change this wednesday or Thursday and see what happens. I'm really confused about the snails though. Everything but the Nitrate levels are in order. I'm not really sure why they are doing so bad. The Hermit Crab is doing great. As far as the tests, I am using Red Sea Pro and API. I thought my Red Sea only went to 4 BUT I am going to have to see if there are colors on the bottom side of the disc that go higher. I'm at work right now. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will August 27, 2012 Author Share August 27, 2012 Big Country... I figured out to run a high level Red Sea Nitrate test and the level is 12 NOT the 40 that API continues to read. I think I need to reevaluate using any test from API! Nevertheless, it still doesn't explain why the snails are doing so poorly. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS August 27, 2012 Share August 27, 2012 How did you acclimate them before putting them in the tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowieReefer84 August 27, 2012 Share August 27, 2012 (edited) Are you letting water mix for 24 hours before doing the 50% water changes? At least 8 hours... What type of bottled water are you using? Distilled is best if not using rodi... Edited August 27, 2012 by BowieReefer84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will August 27, 2012 Author Share August 27, 2012 I am getting the water from endlesswaters in gaithersburg. It tests fine and with Zero nitrates. I mixed the salt outside of the tank but I didn't let the water set since I was doing such a big water change and I removed the fish and then reacclimated them after a few hours when the water temp settled right. They did fine and it was found that the nitrate level although high is not as high as I once thought... Thanks to API testing... Crap! Dave... unfortunately I didnt acclimate them at all.. I didnt realize they were delicate at all and needed to be like the fish. Meanwhile, the hermit crab is happy as a lark... go figure?! I would have expected the other way around at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveS August 27, 2012 Share August 27, 2012 Yup, snails and inverts in general are VERY delicate- often times more so than fish. I usually drip acclimate my snails over the course of 2-3 hours. What you experienced with the snails is pretty typical given no acclimation. The snails that are open with their foot visible are probably dead. If they don't move when you touch them, they are definitely goners. You may want to remove the dead ones before they pollute your tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will August 27, 2012 Author Share August 27, 2012 Thanks... I had no idea! Here I have been so worried about the fish and didn't give a snail a second thought. I will DEFINATELY acclimate them next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaddc August 27, 2012 Share August 27, 2012 So I think the best advice was already given -- slow it down. Let the tank even itself out in its early days. Whatever the parameter you are concerned about, it is not the actual *value* that is of primary concern. The *change* in value is the primary concern. We acclimate our new friends to avoid exposing the livestock to an abrupt change in water params. Doing 50% water changes can bring about rapid changes to the tanks chemistry -- and that is not good. The only time I'd do 50% on my tank is if I know something big went awry (e.g. I overdosed something or a 12" anemone died and is about to nuke the tank). I consider dropping nitrates by (in theory) 50% in one water change to be stressful on the livestock (even if temp and pH were EXACTLY matched). I'd rather do more frequent 10% changes than an abrupt 50% change. I wouldn't stress about nitrates. First, on the health of the livestock. Nitrates affect invertebrates (ahem...snails) before fish. At about 100 pm, fish start being obviously affected and start getting sluggish and pumping their gills rapidly. The practical reason that we all do all sorts of crazy things to reduce N and P is because we all want algae free tanks. Now it looks like you haven't had a bloom...yet. I'd be surprised if you escape this without an algae problem. What do you do? Well, if you haven't started with with a nutrient removal system, start one. Do whatever is easiest for you: Dosing a carbon source. Chaeto. Grow Xenia. Algae scrubber. Anaerobic reactors. Etc. There are some fancy new nitrate absorption resins available that come at a price. Everyone here has their favorite method (and its their favorite because it works for their tank). Don't worry about the pH just yet. That will settle in over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will August 28, 2012 Author Share August 28, 2012 Thanks Jaddc I think that is exactly what I am going to do but I am afraid of putting anything other than the 4 clowns and snails that are already in the tank. We will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaddc August 28, 2012 Share August 28, 2012 Keep us posted! I'm confident you'll get your optimum numbers dialed in very soon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will August 29, 2012 Author Share August 29, 2012 Well, I came home today to some new brown and red algae. It looks burnt at top where it's close to the lights on the rocks. Do I need to do anything about this? I do have a little spaghetti macro algae but I think it's also dying. I wonder if that has lack of ammonia to feed on since I have zero ammonia in the tank Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaddc August 29, 2012 Share August 29, 2012 I didnt think you'd be that lucky not to have algae. So your excess nitrate and phosphate is locked in that brown and red algae. You are going to want to pull as much of that out as you can. You can just grab and pull like a weed, but it's best to use a siphon action to suck the loose algae away. That being said, it's more of an aesthetic issue unless it chokes out your coral by shading it. But weeding the garden is the best way to get rid of excess nutrients. Assuming proper lighting is present, If your macro is dying, it may be because there is a lot of detritus decaying on it so keep it loose and clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will August 30, 2012 Author Share August 30, 2012 There is nothing to "pull". It is a "coating" if you will. I brushed some of if off. How do you "clean" the macro algae? Take it out and rinse it off in the sink? Btw, since it just cycled I only have four clown, six snails, and two shrimp in the 125gal tank with a 45gal sump. Today I replaced the refug bulb with one that I know is 5100K. I threw out the old Macro and replaced it with new one today as well. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimlin August 30, 2012 Share August 30, 2012 i use to clean my macro algae by rinsing it in my old water from water changes. after adding in a pre filter on theintake pump to the fuge, i no longer need to rinse the macro. There is nothing to "pull". It is a "coating" if you will. I brushed some of if off. How do you "clean" the macro algae? Take it out and rinse it off in the sink? Btw, since it just cycled I only have four clown, six snails, and two shrimp in the 125gal tank with a 45gal sump. Today I replaced the refug bulb with one that I know is 5100K. I threw out the old Macro and replaced it with new one today as well. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will September 1, 2012 Author Share September 1, 2012 Cool.. I did put a pre filter on from the start. But that is a cool idea to rise it in the water exchange. I had a shrimp die today:( he seemed to be fine all day.. Eating and walking around. Not sure what happened. All my water perimeters seem to be fine. Nitrite=0 Nitrate= 12ish Ammonia= 0.02 Alkalinity= 8.62 (bumping that up) pH= 8.2 (still not sure how to get that up) Salinity= 1.025 Temp= 83.2 (but I'm not really sure my thermometer is reading right. I'm going to go get a second one tomorrow.) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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