paul b June 21, 2012 Share June 21, 2012 I built a few of these over the years and was not crazy about any of the designs but this one I made last month works 100%. My reef now has a nitrate reading of 40 and I figured it would be a good time to design a new Denitrification device but I had no idea it would work so good and so fast. They usually take a couple of months to fully work but I had it running for a month and I just tested it. Water going in has a nitrate reading of 40 and with just one pass through the device which takes about 10 minutes, water comes out with zero nitrates. Not one or two, but zero. I never thought the thing would work so well and as soon as I get time I will install it on my reef. I have some reservations about lowering my nitrates now, which seems wierd considering what everyone thinks about nitrates but for some reason, my tank never looked so good and the corals were never so big. SPS, LPS and leathers are growing faster than I have ever seen them grow. I doubt it is the high nitrate levels but I wish I knew what it was. I may just install the Denitrification coil for a little while to slightly lower the nitrates to see if it affects the growth rate. I have been cycling the device with Vodka. It only processes about a gallon an hour or so but I will measure it exactly when I have time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallreef June 21, 2012 Share June 21, 2012 HHRRMMM... I feel as though I need to be educated on this... I have NEVER heard of this before???? (I have no clue how I have missed it though?) what does it entail and encompass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul b June 21, 2012 Author Share June 21, 2012 These things work because the coil strips the water of oxygen with the help of Aerobic bacteria, then the oxygen free water travels through the rest of the thing on a 10 minute voyage where it contacts anerobic bacteria which strips away the nitrates. They can be dangerous because if they are not designed correctly or if they run too slow, hydrogen gas can develop which is poisonous. Once it is cycled, you can't shut them off of the sulfide will develop. The denitrifying coil is a 3" PVC pipe on the outside. Inside that is a 2" pipe with 40' od PVC tubing wrapped tightly around it, that is inserted inside the 3" pipe. Inside the 2" pipe is a 1 1/2" pipe and inside that is a 1" pipe. Then a 3/4 pipe, a 1/2" pipe and a 3/8" pipe. The pipes were grooved on my radial arm saw to give them more surface area but that is probably not necessary. The water flows from the tank to the 40' coil then into each pipe. One end of each pipe is capped so the water has to flow through each pipe then to the next and next and so on. The capped ends are on opposite ends of each adjacent pipe. The water way is only about 3/16" between each pipe so there is plenty of surface area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallreef June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 Wow....it seems easier to build a bomb than one of those..hhrrmm lets see how my new tank works out and i may have a new toy to build,lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 I thought that somebody here had done a denitrator coil several years back. ... ah, it was Jamesbuf. He used a coil denitrator before switching to a sulfur denitrator: http://www.wamas.org/forums/topic/20727-why-are-my-nitrates-still-high/page__view__findpost__p__180940 There's lots of stuff that you can do with a long coil. I just read something the other day where Randy Holmes-Farley had implemented an ozone reactor using a 100 feet of ozone-safe tubing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul b June 22, 2012 Author Share June 22, 2012 I thought that somebody here had done a denitrator coil several years back. Tom, I never said I invented the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 Tom, I never said I invented the thing. Ha! No, but you've applied a lot of ingenuity to other things, Paul. Still, we've had several around, even in our little club. For those interested in learning more (e.g. smallreef), take a quick peek at what things people have tried for nitrate reduction. The list is long. Coil denitrators, DSBs, RDSBs, live rock, zeolites, some biopellets, macro, etc. I think RHF's simple coil-based ozone reactor's pretty novel, too. Both the denitrator coil and this reactor take advantage of a long transit time through the coil. The transit time through your coil is probably much longer, though. His was about 45 minutes, as I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul b June 22, 2012 Author Share June 22, 2012 45 minutes seems excessive. I get nitrates down from 40 to zero with a 10 minute transit time. I would worry about hydrogen sulfide with so long a trip. I am also running it as fast as a 1/4" stream, if I slowed it to a drip it would take much longer. I think the thing is running perfect now and as soon as I get time, I will install it on my tank. It hangs from the top because my tank is in a closet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 Different design purpose. 45 minutes is RHF's transit time for the ozone reactor coil (if memory serves - it may not), not denitrator. The longer contact time reduces the ozone to oxygen. You won't go anoxic because of the ozone injection. Lord, a thought occurred to me (headslap) - it might be 45 seconds. LOL. I must go back and find that article of his. It's just novel what people have done with a really long piece of coiled tubing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 Anyways, Paul, most denitrator coils that I've heard about were nothing but a really long length of tubing. Yours has takes up some volume with the back and forth, in one tube and out the other thing that you have going on. Is there a reason that you did it this way versus simply adding more tubing (that is, making it longer)? It seems that the internal surface area of the lengthened tubing would far exceed that of the back-and-forth PVC chamber (and that extra surface area translates to more bacteria homesites). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul b June 22, 2012 Author Share June 22, 2012 Why do something simple when you can make it as complicated as can be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 Ha, but that's not you, Paul. Simple is elegant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul b June 22, 2012 Author Share June 22, 2012 It's very simple Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkey18 June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 Seems like the consequences of failure are pretty extreme... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 How so, Laura? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkey18 June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 >>They can be dangerous because if they are not designed correctly or if they run too slow, hydrogen gas can develop which is poisonous. Once it is cycled, you can't shut them off of the sulfide will develop.<< Hydrogen gas and sulfide? Doesn't sound good to me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 It's hydrogen sulfide. You can't allow the water to go stagnant or to dwell too long. Anoxic environments foster H2S (hydrogen sulfide) formation when certain bacteria begin to use sulfur as an electron acceptor rather than oxygen. You can get hydrogen sulfide in some deep sand beds if not too careful. We're all familiar with it - it smells like rotten eggs. You just have to find the right flow rate through to produce the anaerobic environment that helps with nitrate reduction, while avoiding creating much of an anoxic one. As for stagnant water doing the same thing. That's true in any of our equipment. It's one reason, for example, to keep water flowing through a calcium reactor even when you've run out of CO2. You don't want it to stagnate. I don't think you'll find hydrogen gas being produced here. Just hydrogen sulfide if it goes anoxic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyD June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 I have built the same type of denitrator, except for all the varying sizes of pvc tubes, at the end of my coil tubing, I made the water go through bioballs to grow the anaerobic bacteria before exiting back into my tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkey18 June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 Ahh, Got it! Thanks for the clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul b June 23, 2012 Author Share June 23, 2012 I made the water go through bioballs to grow the anaerobic bacteria before exiting back into my tank. Thats basically how most of them are built. I just wanted to be different and I had a bunch of pipe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite June 23, 2012 Share June 23, 2012 I've got a denitrator here that has been in the closet a couple years. I was too impatient to wait for it to work after a month and no results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul b June 24, 2012 Author Share June 24, 2012 Now that I know it works, I took it apart. I want to re-design portions of it and put in some air vents. Through the air vents I can test the water in different parts of the device to see where denitrification takes place. Maybe I can eliminate some parts of the thing. I kept the coil working to keep the bacteria alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul b June 27, 2012 Author Share June 27, 2012 I am putting it back together with some tweeks and I wil start cycling it again. I changed the flow from bottom to top just to make construction easier and I added 2 air vents and test ports. Right now I don't want to lower the nitrates too much because for some reason the corals are growing very fast. I have a giant mushroom that for 5 years was a tiny mushroom looking thing, now it is close to 9" across and it grew in a few months. I am afraid to feed the thing because it is taking up too much real estate and is covering some neighboring corals which are themselves getting too large for the tank. This shows some of the internal parts, two of the tubes are inside other tubes and are not shown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul b June 27, 2012 Author Share June 27, 2012 I am cycling it again now and when it starts to work I will install it. This is a view from the inside top. Those tubes let out the air and I can test the water in different parts of the thing to see which part is doing what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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