Hoi Toider June 21, 2012 Share June 21, 2012 My 240g reef tank measures 96"x18"x30" (lxwxh). A 50 gallon refugium and a 30 gallon sump are attached. Circulation is from 4 Vortech MP40WES, an OM-4 way/Sequence Dart, and a Sequence Hammerhead main pump - all intakes and overflows are screened. The top of the tank is not currently screened. Aquascape provides LOTS of caves/overhangs. Last Sunday I moved 11 fish (Macauliceps Tang, 2 hawkfish, 2 chromis, 2 firefish, copper-banded butterfly, 3 pseudanthias) from quarantine to the main DT to join a sailfin tang and bangai cardinal, several shrimp, 2 small crabs, 3 anemones and assorted corals. Two days ago one of the firefish turned up missing; yesterday a chromis was absent; and this morning the banded hawkfish was gone. I've observed no aggression, and there are no carpet surfers to be found. I'm stumped. Anyone have ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkey18 June 21, 2012 Share June 21, 2012 Water quality? Acclimation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icecool2 June 21, 2012 Share June 21, 2012 That's a heck of a lot of fish to add at once, even for a 240g. Pods and other macrofauna are really good at cleaning up dead fish, so I'm not surprised you didn't see any bodies. I'm with Sharkey on this one, what are your water parameters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind June 21, 2012 Share June 21, 2012 There could be a few things going on. The fish might be hiding and will turn up later, the fish were sick and died, or aggression killed them. What hawkfish do you have and what size are they. I have seen hawkfish take out small fish like your chromis and firefish. I have also seen hawkfish become very aggressive towards each other. How did you QT them, what medications, how long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctenophore June 21, 2012 Share June 21, 2012 How long have the other fish been in there? Where is the rock from? (it could be a mantis shrimp or other hiding predator) What kind of anemones & crabs? (some will eat disoriented or stressed small fish) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almon June 21, 2012 Share June 21, 2012 it could be a mantis shrimp Yep. I went for five years without understanding why I could not keep any small fish. I add a small fish, see once or twice, and never again. Stomatopods generate a disinctive clicking sound (when they are eating your hermits and snails). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan June 21, 2012 Share June 21, 2012 +1 I was thinking some hichthiker too, or they just died and your cleaners did their job. How long have the other fish been in there? Where is the rock from? (it could be a mantis shrimp or other hiding predator) What kind of anemones & crabs? (some will eat disoriented or stressed small fish) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 Did you check the overflow or sump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 June 22, 2012 Share June 22, 2012 I say keep on looking. In a tank that size it's easy for fish to hide. When my fish were still alive there would be times I couldn't find 10" fish because they were hidden in the rocks and I had some fish that were seen only a few times per year. Hawkfish often hide in the rocks and find perches that you may or may not see. For the chromis and firefish, they are small enough where a dead body could easily get lodged in the rocks. Those two may have been victims of aggression from the other chromis and firefish, but again, I'd give it a few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoi Toider June 24, 2012 Author Share June 24, 2012 Thanks, everyone. Sorry it took so long for me to check back in - I've been pretty busy. For one thing I've been running down some of the ideas you have given me. My water quality is excellent across the board. At no time have any of the fish appeared sick or lethargic. I guess there could be a marauder hiding out, but truthfully, I didn't add a lot of live rock to the tank - almost 80% of the rock was base rock - and what I did add was from reliable sources. As for the type of hawkfish I had (key word), it no longer matters as they are both missing now, as well as the remaining firefish and one of the pseudanthias. All in all, half of the fish I added last Sunday are now missing. I'm afraid to even look in the tank each morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icecool2 June 24, 2012 Share June 24, 2012 It could be a stomatopod, but my guess would be a spearer type based on te fish that are missing. They make burrows though, so have you seen any corals frags or rock rubble get moved to a specific spot? Also, what are your actual parameters and how are you testing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 June 24, 2012 Share June 24, 2012 I doubt you have a spearer in there. They are far more rare to receive one and the likelihood of one stowing away in your rock is pretty low. Also, I doubt you have a mantis taking down the fish - the stowaway smashers are not that big typically and taking down a fish can be a tall order. More likely if there is a predator, it's some sort of predatory snail or the like, possibly a crab that's getting to them. If the mantis is big enough to take down a fish, it's also probably big enough to be heard - plus the smashers don't prefer fish. If you have snails and hermits in there, you'd see evidence of the smasher through broken shells. I'd say that something is off with the tank if you continue to lose fish. May not be something that you are testing for. The alternative is illness or disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smallreef June 24, 2012 Share June 24, 2012 How big was the QT you had all these fish in and for how long? It could be so many possible things, another is stress from the QT and then moving everyone to the DT at the same time may have caused an ammonia spike you didnt catch or something happened with dissolved oxygen within the tank or, or, or, or... If you have any kind of clean up crew it would not be unheard of for 4 or 5 fish to be cleaned up in a day without you seeing any part of a carcass... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve175 June 24, 2012 Share June 24, 2012 Many of the fish you list are known jumpers: I would look behind and under the tank. Do you have a dog? I have caught our retriever snacking on carpet-surfed jerky in the past. I now add all fish to a covered, blanketed tank which I keep dark x 24h to give them a fighting chance for orientation before stressed by MH light and prior inhabitants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkey18 June 24, 2012 Share June 24, 2012 So sure, it could be some rogue predator that you are unaware of. But it seems to me that you added a lot of fish in a short amount of time and something went wrong. Either they were too stressed, or had some sort of acclimation shock etc. The simplest answer is usually correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schudini June 25, 2012 Share June 25, 2012 Do you have any serpent starfish? I have seen larger ones take small 2-3" fish using the "cage of death" maneuver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ne0eN June 26, 2012 Share June 26, 2012 I have some experience with firefish in a large reef tank. My guess is - they found a great hiding spot and are still hiding. It may be a week or two before you see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite June 26, 2012 Share June 26, 2012 Do you have any serpent starfish? I have seen larger ones take small 2-3" fish using the "cage of death" maneuver. Especially the green ones. When I had one I had to target feed it nearly every day to keep it happy. I like that phrase, "cage of death" - it's a perfect description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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