surf&turf November 21, 2011 Share November 21, 2011 We're at 2ppm. Finally there's some progress. Yay!!! Excellent news!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami November 22, 2011 Share November 22, 2011 That's good news, Jan. I hope it continues to drop quickly for you. It's a sign that your bacterial population is growing and taking root. There's little inherently bad with reusing sand. After all, it's not an absorbant for organics that might trigger release of ammonia. However, it can harbor a LOT of life that, should it die off, can do so. Once the ammonia levels get too high, the die-off can cascade leading to even higher ammonia. Reading through your thread, I'm guessing that this is what happened given the very high ammonia that you experienced. In addition to organics, used sand beds - deep ones - can be stratified with pockets of poisonous hydrogen sulfide in areas that have little, if any oxygen exposure. I reused the sand bed from my old 180 when I moved it from its previous owner to my old house in Ashburn. That move went without a hitch, save the loss of one brittle star. I'm sorry that this happened to you, but am glad it looks to be behind you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan November 22, 2011 Author Share November 22, 2011 (edited) It's not behind me yet. This mornings read is back up to 8ppm. The snails that were in the SB is what's doing it. They keep dying off. They are very small, and there are many. I'm dosing everything that I can find that claims to help establish bacteria; Sechem Stability and Microbacter7. I had the Microbacter7. I found a bottle of the Seachem Stability in the supplies I got with the new set up. I've also increased the water temperature to 80. I read on fishlore that increasing the water temp to 80-82 will help accelerate the cycle. That's good news, Jan. I hope it continues to drop quickly for you. It's a sign that your bacterial population is growing and taking root. There's little inherently bad with reusing sand. After all, it's not an absorbant for organics that might trigger release of ammonia. However, it can harbor a LOT of life that, should it die off, can do so. Once the ammonia levels get too high, the die-off can cascade leading to even higher ammonia. Reading through your thread, I'm guessing that this is what happened given the very high ammonia that you experienced. In addition to organics, used sand beds - deep ones - can be stratified with pockets of poisonous hydrogen sulfide in areas that have little, if any oxygen exposure. I reused the sand bed from my old 180 when I moved it from its previous owner to my old house in Ashburn. That move went without a hitch, save the loss of one brittle star. I'm sorry that this happened to you, but am glad it looks to be behind you. Edited November 22, 2011 by Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypertech November 22, 2011 Share November 22, 2011 Your readings are all over the map and that strikes me as odd. It seems unusual that it would spike to 8, drop to 2, then jump back up to 8. Have you had someone double check your tests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind November 22, 2011 Share November 22, 2011 I've also increased the water temperature to 80. I read on fishlore that increasing the water temp to 80-82 will help accelerate the cycle. Increasing the temperature slightly increases the toxicity of the Ammonia. Increasing the pH has a much bigger increase on toxicity. Just something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan November 22, 2011 Author Share November 22, 2011 No. I purchased a new test kit. There's no need for someone else to check the readings. They are all over the place because the sand bed is filled with life and I disturbed it when I removed most of it. I released more ammonia from whatever died under the subsrtate. That ammonia caused more die off. There is a lot of life in this substrate. There's only a dusting of it left in the tankthat I can't get to. I'm just going to have to wait it out. Your readings are all over the map and that strikes me as odd. It seems unusual that it would spike to 8, drop to 2, then jump back up to 8. Have you had someone double check your tests? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan November 22, 2011 Author Share November 22, 2011 So lower temp and lower PH will lower toxicity? Increasing the temperature slightly increases the toxicity of the Ammonia. Increasing the pH has a much bigger increase on toxicity. Just something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind November 22, 2011 Share November 22, 2011 Yes, but with your currently high readings it doesn't make a different as you will still be in the toxic area. Here is a great site I have saved that helps to explain it. http://dataguru.org/misc/aquarium/AmmoniaTox.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan November 22, 2011 Author Share November 22, 2011 Thanks David. Yea, with a PH of 8.2 (this is what I have) and ammonia at 8ppm, increasing the temp from 75 to 80 wont make a difference. Yes, but with your currently high readings it doesn't make a different as you will still be in the toxic area. Here is a great site I have saved that helps to explain it. http://dataguru.org/...AmmoniaTox.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami November 22, 2011 Share November 22, 2011 The snails that were in the SB is what's doing it. They keep dying off. They are very small, and there are many. I was just thinking the same thing this morning. I remember looking closely at my sand bed, once, through a jewelers loupe, and noticing many, many small snails, the size of a grain of sand. Difficult to rinse out, for sure. How much water is in this tank, Jan? Higher temperature will accelerate the cycle by increasing the bacterial action. However, it will also reduce dissolved gasses, including oxygen. Be careful. If you're able, watch your pH, too. Don't let it get above 8.2. If you can push it down to 8 or below, you'll be better. High pH adversely shifts ammonia balance to its more toxic form. FYI, API's ammonia test kit is apparently a salicylate, not a Nessler, test. That'll give you accurate results in the presence of stuff like Amquel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan November 22, 2011 Author Share November 22, 2011 Most of us have trouble maintaining a PH of 8.2. Now I have to lower it? This is too funny. How do I lower PH? I was just thinking the same thing this morning. I remember looking closely at my sand bed, once, through a jewelers loupe, and noticing many, many small snails, the size of a grain of sand. Difficult to rinse out, for sure. How much water is in this tank, Jan? Higher temperature will accelerate the cycle by increasing the bacterial action. However, it will also reduce dissolved gasses, including oxygen. Be careful. If you're able, watch your pH, too. Don't let it get above 8.2. If you can push it down to 8 or below, you'll be better. High pH adversely shifts ammonia balance to its more toxic form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan November 22, 2011 Author Share November 22, 2011 Approximatley 200 gallons. This includes the sump. How much water is in this tank, Jan? FYI, API's ammonia test kit is apparently a salicylate, not a Nessler, test. That'll give you accurate results in the presence of stuff like Amquel. Good to kow my test is accurate...It's an API. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan November 25, 2011 Author Share November 25, 2011 What???? I'M READY TO THROW IN THE TOWEL. HONESTLY! I left about 5 inches of water in the tank and dumped 64 gallons of 2 day old fresh mixed water. My reading is 4ppm ammonia from 8ppm. I replaced the media in the DI cartridge, for the 3rd time now, with media I purchased last week. Just to make sure it wasn't my filtered water I checked it again. MY RO/DI WATER READS .25 AMMoNIA "AGAIN"!!! What IS GOING ON? This is no fun anymore!!! I busted my butt all day long cooking and cleaining and all I wanted was to see better results when I added new water. I want to enjoy this set up. I want my family room back. I want this big clunky tub gone from in front of my TV. I'm so frustrated. I'm so tired! I've spent night after night and day after day reading and researching trying to figure this crap out. Why is this happening. I hate crying!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan November 25, 2011 Author Share November 25, 2011 Had my moment of drama. Back to the drawing board tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan November 26, 2011 Author Share November 26, 2011 (edited) Ammonia is down to 2ppm's today. I pulled out 3 large very large putrid smelling rocks yesterday and replaced more water. It's the rock. I could use a couple of cups of sand from an established tank. Does anyone have any to spare? Thanks JM! Edited November 26, 2011 by Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami November 26, 2011 Share November 26, 2011 Ammonia is down to 2ppm's today. I pulled out 3 large very large putrid smelling rocks yesterday and replaced more water. It's the rock. I could use a couple of cups of sand from an established tank. Does anyone have any to spare? I'm happy that you found the source, Jan. It sounds like the rock wasn't as barren as originally thought. Any idea what was on them? Sponge is a common source but it could have been anything organic that was on the rock. I once tried power washing some rock free of sponge and stuff that was growing on it. It seemed to work alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan November 28, 2011 Author Share November 28, 2011 I could not see a thing on this rock; no sponge, no nothing, Just a putrid stench! I cannot figure out how it died, be that as it may, ammonia is down to .50 today. Shhhhhhhhhh, fingers crossed. I don't want to even speak it.... I'm happy that you found the source, Jan. It sounds like the rock wasn't as barren as originally thought. Any idea what was on them? Sponge is a common source but it could have been anything organic that was on the rock. I once tried power washing some rock free of sponge and stuff that was growing on it. It seemed to work alright. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surf&turf November 28, 2011 Share November 28, 2011 (edited) Finally, good news!! Edited November 28, 2011 by surf&turf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicSG November 28, 2011 Share November 28, 2011 Sorry to see and hear you go through this craziness, but glad to hear you finally found what might have been causing the spike. You are doing good Jan. Great job keep strong you will have your living room back in few days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan November 29, 2011 Author Share November 29, 2011 .25ppm ammonia today. Dosing "Stability", too. Shhhh, not to loud. I'm being cautiously optimistic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad December 6, 2011 Share December 6, 2011 How's it going now, Jan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Novi December 6, 2011 Share December 6, 2011 Happy you found the problem Jan, but what led you to the rocks being bad? I know you said the smell but could you smell the stench even while they were underwater or you just started picking stuff out and smelling it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan December 6, 2011 Author Share December 6, 2011 Pretty much that's how it went down. I checked everything I could. It had to be the rock. I strated pulling and sniffing and I found 3 large rocks that smelled like death. I pulled them out, did a water change and kept adding "stability" until ammonia was down to .025. Added amquel(sp), corals then acclimated all the fish. I started at 10pm and finished at 5:30am. Crashed and got up at 10 to mess with it some more, LOL. Thank god for my husband. He let me sleep and took charge of morning duties while I slept. Happy you found the problem Jan, but what led you to the rocks being bad? I know you said the smell but could you smell the stench even while they were underwater or you just started picking stuff out and smelling it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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