Update

[Guest clownfish4]

Okay, everyone knows what I have been going through lately. Well my hair algae has exploded and I have yet to find a cause; ALL LEVELS are fine. So here is my new plan of action. I am going to throw all corals and a bin with a heater, powerhead, and MH over it. Then I am going to shut the lights on my tank off for a week, scrub all the rocks, and perform a large water change. However I have a few problems/questions. Firstly, some of the corals have hair algae on them. Should I remove it all then throw them in the bin and hope it doesn't come back on them? Secondly, can my sixline, hippo, yellow tang, foxface, and two chromis go a week without food? If not, what is the minimum I can feed? Any other suggestions and tips are greatly appreciated.

[RudyCDX1]

Okay, everyone knows what I have been going through lately.  Well my hair algae has exploded and I have yet to find a cause; ALL LEVELS are fine.  So here is my new plan of action.  I am going to throw all corals and a bin with a heater, powerhead, and MH over it.  Then I am going to shut the lights on my tank off for a week, scrub all the rocks, and perform a large water change.  However I have a few problems/questions.  Firstly, some of the corals have hair algae on them.  Should I remove it all then throw them in the bin and hope it doesn't come back on them?  Secondly, can my sixline, hippo, yellow tang, foxface, and two chromis go a week without food?  If not, what is the minimum I can feed?  Any other suggestions and tips are greatly appreciated.

32824[/snapback]

Well

[lmeyer]

Sorry to hear your woes. Been through it. I wound up going the route you are planning, I put all of my rock in an unlit rubbermaid trash can for a while, let the algae die off, scrubbed it, put it back in the tank. I couldn't get all of the hair/turf algae off, but it seemed to get below critical mass. I've had my tank back up and running for about 4 months and the algae has not come back. I did make an addition of two pencil urchins to the tank as a precaution against the algae which has been a mixed bag. I think they help, but they do knock over corals on occasion and they do eat up the coralline algae. Am considering removing them and seeing what happens.

 

As for your questions, I would remove as much algae as possible from the corals without harming them and then take my chances. Hopefully when you reduce the total amount of algae in the system, your clean up crew will be able to finish that job.

 

Are you keeping the fish in the tank while you do the scrubbing? The tangs and foxface may be able to eat the algae still in the tank while you are doing this. If not, I would probably feed them a little, but not too much. When I go on vacation (week at a time), I throw in a little extra food before I go and a little extra when I get back and have never lost anything as a result. I would rather feed the tank, but don't want to put anyone in the position of having to care for my tank.

[Grav]

Sorry to hear that Mike.

 

I assume you have TDS-ed your RO/DI?

 

Skimmer isn't blocked in any way? (I had a peperment go in the intake, into the becket and restrict flow seriously, took me a week to find the problem.... a snail would be even worse)

 

Maybe try a different kind of food?

 

I'd speculate that the levels are at zero because your plethora of alge is consuming the nasties as fast as it is produced.

 

Instead of removing all coral into a bin and taking a chance on their survival maybe move it all to one side of the tank, rock to the other and only light the coral side.... maybe with a light block of some kind.

 

How much coral we talking about?

 

How much rock?

 

My crew cleaned a 10# rock covered in hair and turf (tough customer) in 3 days. Maybe I should start a cleaning service.... bring the rock to me and I'll have the kids clean it up.

[Guest clownfish4]

Thanks for the suggestions. I am planning on leaving the fish in the tank while the lights are out. Grav, I have checked my TSD and I recently replaced the filters. As for dividing the stuff in the tank, that wouldn't really work. I have 20+ corals and about 200 pounds of rock, so the corals have to come out.

[HowardofNOVA]

Mike,

I like Phil's idea about moving all your LR on the left side for example and place your corals on the right on the sandy bottom. Place a piece of board or cardboard in the middle as a buffer and only run one light bulb on the right side. Then after doing that for a few days. Bring a tub beside the left side and remove all of the rock, scrub it down and replace back into the tank all cleaned. This way, you doing your scrubbing outside of the tank, no huge floating pieces going around looking for a new place to attach and start over again.

In the mean time, add to Phosban/Rowphos to your reactor and run it. Do a 10g water change every 2-3 days. Maybe turn single light on every day for short period to keep corals going.

Feed the fish minimal every 2-3 days before your water change and ADD SOME REDTIPPED LEG CRABS and EMERALD CRABS!

I know you hate cleaner crews, but dang they work!

Howard

[Guest clownfish4]

Howard, I have seventy-five snails working hard, but I will NEVER add another crab to my tank, so don't even try. As for moving all the rock to one side, I still consider this to be impossible. So I am slowly cutting back my photoperiod and am constantly syphoning algae out. As well, when I scrub everything off I plan to syphon it out and replace the water at the same time.

[xeon]

Do you think it could be your lights shifting color spectrum? How new or old are they? Does your tank get much sunlight during the day? Have you cut back on feedings to see how that helps/doesn't help. I would really hate it if I went through a major coral extraction, rock scrubbing and dark tank phase only to have the algae come back.

[Lee Stearns]

Mike how is that large batch of snails working in there- Howard is right the red legs really tear at this stuff, and are not as bad as blue legs at snail snatching- If there are any particular corals that you are worried about, I would be happy to acclimate them and hold them on a small peice of my real estate for you till you are ready to put them back in. I think your sofities will do fine in a bin esp if you are recirulating the water from you main system. For that matter I do not see a whole lot wrong with your plan except that you will need some type of cleaner crew to balance whatever does grow eventually. And will have to watch what food inputs you make very carefully. Patience- it is a long slow process. If you need a hand this weekend give me a call-

[Guest clownfish4]

Xeon, lights are around seven months old, so they may be starting a shift but shouldn't be horrible. Lee, I would greatly appreciate your help this weekend. The snails are doing okay but the stuff just grows too fast. My only concerns are my clam, deepwater bali acro, candycanes, and frogspawn. I think they would all be fine in a bin though.

[dbartco]

you testing phosphates?

[Guest clownfish4]

Yes, like I said in the first test, ALL TESTS are fine.

[dbartco]

so then what was the value???

 

I'm sorry, I should have just known all test of the kits you have taken reading with, and what they are....

 

I hope no one else is so incredibly stupid to ask questions like that, especially anyone who has been through the same problems you are having, gone back to previous threads you started to see if those values were in there, and could possibly provide you with some advice.

[Guest clownfish4]

Sorry, didn't mean to sound like a jerk. Last time I tested it came up at .02. Ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite are all at 0, pH is 8.2, calcium is 450.

[xeon]

What are your phosphates at? If your RO/DI is fine, that is just kind of the start. What kind of salt are you using... could it be high in phosphates? Do you dose any "supplements"? What kind of carbon if any are you using? I'm just trying to think of potential phosphates. Honestly, I'd really try to find the source to ultimately eradicate it. Otherwise, you could do all that work and go back only to have it come back again... which would really suck.

[Grav]

I agree with Dave, I'm worried yer gonna do a lot of work and end up back in the same place. If you found the problem and corrected it, then all this work to remove the alge would speed the process, but if the problem is still there, the alge will be back.

 

Is it still getting worse all the time?

 

Do you have a fuge? Any big fish go missing?

[Guest clownfish4]

Phosphate was .02 last time I checked. I have been trying to find the source for nearly a month. I lost ten fish about 4 weeks ago and none since. Mike and Grim from TRT are clueless and said it was just an inevitable crash. If I could find the source I would eradicate it, but I can't, that is why I am turning to this option. Algae is growing steadily. I syphon it and it grows back. My faith in this idea is that Mike said the algae itself held phosphates, meaning removing it would remove phosphates.

[Lee Stearns]

That is true- It has phos and nitrogen that it has captured from either the rocks or the water. Just a note if you want to scrub your rocks make up a bit of new salt water and scrub them in a seperate bucket then rinse with the new salt water before replacing them- The siphon method works but I would bet slower since so many small peices escape back into the system to colonize new areas. On another note it might be interesting to test the parameters of your new salt water before using it as replacement water. It is not unheard of for ther eto be a bad batch of salt.

[Guest clownfish4]

Lee, I have tested the salt and have used three different bags since the problem. So I am fairly confident there is no problem there. I figure with a good cleaning and large water change I should be able to swing the advantage.

[flowerseller]

Hi Mike,

As the fish died, were you able to remove them or did they dissapear?

Never add water from other tanks to yours even when adding new fish.

I didn't notice what salt you use and if each bag was the same so don't jump on me like you did poor ole innocent friendly Doug. :D

What is the algae you are getting?

Hair (green, brown or red)

Tuft (green or red)

Slime (red or brown)

If by chance it is brown and siphons off easily, I would increase the quality and/or the amount of skimming.

If you were unable to remove most , they are still adding to the nutrients in the tank.

I like Chemipure with passive flow, 1 bag to start in an area where water will flow thru it but not be pushed thru with a powerhead.

I've done the scub thing on several peoples tanks and it's been successful if you add clean make up sea water and get rid of all the detritus you can. I never did the no light thing after a scrub and I'm sure a week would not be enough time anyway.

 

I hear people with 8 alternating returns always have algae problems. :D

Call me as I have more questions and don't feel like typing.

[Guest clownfish4]

Sorry Chip, been quite busy. This weekend I shut my return pump off to seal the leak in my trim and came up with a thought. If it proves to be true I am going to kick myself. I believe it is possible that my turnover rate was too low causing low efficiency from my skimmer. Now that I have the leak sealed I am going to crank the pump up higher tomorrow and make sure I have a high turnover rate, syphon all the algae, and do a water change. Only time will tell.......

[Grav]

What kind of turnover do you think you were getting?

 

I'm a fan of turning water into the sump / skimmer 10x. I think you lose a lot by just turning it 5x but don't gain much by turning it 20x...

[Guest clownfish4]

I'm guessing it was probably in the 4-5x area. Now it is closer to 6, I either need to get another pump or a bigger pump since I have the return split to two tanks.

[Guest D33rex]

I also went thru a hair algae H-E-double hocky sticks a couple years ago. From my experience and others I have talked to, a problem could also be circulation, algae (hair especially) thrive in any dead spots in your tank. Many people who have NEVER experienced major algae breakouts attribute it to good flow. Since my first move several years ago I have always gone overboard on circulation. I have a mainly soft coral tank, so I dont need the strong pumps, but I have 8 150-200gph power heads on a wavemaker in my 55g, as well as I use a squid. So thats 10 circulating devices in just a 55! They are mostly those little mini maxijets about 160gph which are great because they are easily hidden in the back and within rocks, or don't take up too much room up top. Maybe a little overdoing it but isn't that what we reefers are about? HA. Just something to consider.

[Guest clownfish4]

I can assure you I don't have a flow problem. I have a mag 18 running on an oceans motions 8 way and a mag 9.5 return. My tank is like a wave maker!