ctenophore February 28, 2012 Share February 28, 2012 I have some experience making large fiberglass cylinders from a mold. We made my 8' tall skimmers from a male mold cut from a foam block on a large CNC lathe. The fiberglass guy who did the actual glassing said it was important to have a few degrees of draft (taper) on the mold in order to pull the fiberglass part off. He also had to coat the mold in some sort of liquid that allowed the part to pull free after it cured. So I don't think you'll be able to use just any cylinder as a mold. You could get a piece of duct PVC, then cut a long, thin "V" shape out of the side, then glue it back together so it has some draft. Or you could just use duct PVC, it's not that expensive although it is grey. Depends on if you want it translucent or not. I actually have the body of my old ozone reactor which is 6' tall x 14" diameter if that interests you; it's made from duct PVC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave w February 28, 2012 Author Share February 28, 2012 Justin, thanks for the advice. My fiberglass experiment probably wouldn't have worked without a tapered mold and I hadn't thought to cut the taper. Duct taping the cut back into a taper would really work well. I've always used car wax to pull fiberglass off a mold. Thanks for the offer on the cylinder, I'd like to see your greenhouse again just because your setup is so nice and to bounce some ideas off you. Did you ever get the rotifer feed to your corals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctenophore February 28, 2012 Share February 28, 2012 Car wax, good idea. Not sure what he used but it may have been exactly that. My greenhouse is in midst of major change. tubs are going out and I want to build a single big display tank instead. No time to propagate corals any more. No rotifer system yet, although that will hopefully come in time once I get attention back to my system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave w February 29, 2012 Author Share February 29, 2012 (edited) Maybe by the time your ready for rotifers again we will have an automated dosing system for you. I sent you the name and phone number of a stainless steel welder a while back, I really recommend Juan very highly. Edited February 29, 2012 by dave w Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctenophore March 1, 2012 Share March 1, 2012 Yes, I saved his contact info- thanks. I'll give him a call when I'm closer to starting on that project. At this rate by late summer if I'm lucky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave w March 5, 2012 Author Share March 5, 2012 Here is the plywooded settlement chamber. It is located under the entrance to the sunroom. It is a couple feet below the tank so I hope all the heavy fish poop drops to the bottom corner where a submersible pump will periodically pump brown water out to the drain. Hope the image goes through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave w March 5, 2012 Author Share March 5, 2012 Here is the same settlement chamber after the sides have been fiberglassed and put in place with high strength marine adhesive and clamps. The hole on the right of the chamber will be a tube that connects to the refugium, and completes the tank in a loop. Right now the top of the chamber isn't in place because we need to crawl inside and fiberglass all the corners with 4 or 5 layers of roving and fiberglass tape. In the end the fiberglass is as strong as steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave w March 6, 2012 Author Share March 6, 2012 Had a little setback today. I'd planned on a diaphragm pump to lift sump zooplankton to the display tank. Today a pump technician said plankton will clog the diaphragm. So much for my plans. Now I'm thinking of two new options. The first is to gang together a bunch of Toms aqualifters to lift zooplankton 54". The second is to make a box where a top solenoid valve #1 lets in water to fill, then closes as valve #2 at the bottom of the box opens and air displaces zooplankton up to the display tank. But then the pressurized air must be released before the next cycle. Even if I vent the air outdoors it may be noisy. I just don't look forward to inventing a new system and hope there is an off the shelf solution out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave w March 6, 2012 Author Share March 6, 2012 A couple things to point out about the settlement chamber. The open rectangle on the left is where the tank water enters, the open hole on the right is where it connects to the refugium, turning the tank into a continuous loop. In this picture neither the top nor the near side are on the chamber. Hope that helps clear up what you're looking at. The pink styrofoam on the right is a void I left for the geothermal water and air pipes to enter the greenhouse for heating and cooling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanglandJoshua March 6, 2012 Share March 6, 2012 How about a corkscrew pump? Large tube (PVC or acrylic) with a spinning corkscrew inside. The power source could be an electric motor, put in variable speed controls and for the most part your set. I've not read all the past comments, but if I'm correct your goal in this case is to avoid killing the zooplankton. This may help you avoid that. It may not have a massive flow rate (depending on diameter of the pipe) but it's better than a conveyer belt of buckets! I'm curious if something like that could replace smaller return pumps. I would love to see what might get the chance to survive if pumps were replaced, but doubt it would work out! By the way, I would still love to check out the tank! Is any time free next week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave w March 6, 2012 Author Share March 6, 2012 How about a corkscrew pump? Large tube (PVC or acrylic) with a spinning corkscrew inside. The power source could be an electric motor, put in variable speed controls and for the most part your set. I've not read all the past comments, but if I'm correct your goal in this case is to avoid killing the zooplankton. This may help you avoid that. It may not have a massive flow rate (depending on diameter of the pipe) but it's better than a conveyer belt of buckets! I'm curious if something like that could replace smaller return pumps. I would love to see what might get the chance to survive if pumps were replaced, but doubt it would work out! By the way, I would still love to check out the tank! Is any time free next week? Anytime next week will be fine. After that I have relatives in town for a week and then will be out on some travel. I think the corkscrew pump is a good thought. I don't know much about them and didn't know they were capable of lifting water up five feet. Although the volume of water to lift is small, it seems the screw would have to be built to extremely close tolerances to counteract the water weight. Either that or it must spin very fast which would kill zooplankton. I will look into your very creative idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chad March 6, 2012 Share March 6, 2012 Corkscrews are complex to build, but it could work. Inland Aquatics uses an Archimedes Screw to move water, you might try contacting Morgan for more info. His pumps have been in operation for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind March 6, 2012 Share March 6, 2012 The corkscrews have been mentioned a few times already in this thread going back to page 3. As I mentioned in another post you do not need a tube to go around the screw, just sides added to the screw to create buckets. If you use the tube you can increase the volume but the seal would have to be tight enough to hold the water. Tighter seal means increased resistance and more power draw. http://www.wamas.org/forums/topic/40178-dave-ws-3000-gal-planktonreef-tank/page__view__findpost__p__341605 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave w March 6, 2012 Author Share March 6, 2012 Chad and Coral Hind, I havven't forgotten your good advice on this topic but I admit that I didn't follow up on the ideas. I will call Inland Aquatics to see if they market an Archimeses scre or bucket type system. Although I haven't dismissed your ideas, once I started thinking along the lines of controllers and solenoids my mind didn't pursue both angles at the same time. I have been thinking of a small chamber under the floor where air pressure pushes zooplankton up a pipe to the display tank. Kind of like a house water pressure tank without the rubber balloon. I think the footprint of a 3 gallon bucket would be smaller than the Archimedes screw systems. If each type of Archimedes screw inclines at 45 degrees, they would need to be about 7' long, whereas a 3 gallon bucket under the cabinet floor would be smaller. Although I haven't dismissed anything I admit that I was sidetracked. I will look into the augers again. It also seems to me that there should be some bellows water pumps out there, they are probably common in the third world for irrigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowsingle March 6, 2012 Share March 6, 2012 Hi Dave, great build.....quick question.....any reason why you can't use a dosing pump to move the plankton? Those types of pumps are used for moving blood, which is a fluid with a lot of stuff in it.... cheers, Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind March 6, 2012 Share March 6, 2012 That is a good idea, but find or make one with a much large hose to increase the volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave w March 6, 2012 Author Share March 6, 2012 Great question Darren. My impression is that dosing pumps used small impeller motors which would grind up live plankton. If it uses a roller on flexible pipe, a peristaltic device, squeezes tubing or alternates membranes then I am all for it. My impression of dosing pumps could be wrong and you could steer me to one that worked. Toms aqualifters work in such a way that I think little plankton damage will be done, but they are small and several would probably have to be ganged together. I need something to lift several gallons of concentrated zooplankton up about 5 feet for a few minutes every hour or two during the day. Ideally I'd like it to lift something as big as a brine shrimp and keep it alive, which I think is a different application than moving the small particles in blood. I don't know much about medicine and could be wrong on that. Let's keep thinking, somthing will come up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave w March 6, 2012 Author Share March 6, 2012 That is a good idea, but find or make one with a much large hose to increase the volume. Do you mean increase the volume of a hose for an archimedes screw or for a pressure tank? If you mean the screw, it would increase water volume. If you mean the pressure tank, when it empties the "outflow" solenoid closes and the remaining zooplankton in 54" of pipe will sit for an hour until the next dosing, perhaps developing low oxygen conditions, so I've thought the pipe diameter should be relatively small to minimize this effect. Do you think that larger pipe diameter will help in other ways? Am I understanding your question correctly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k March 7, 2012 Share March 7, 2012 Great question Darren. My impression is that dosing pumps used small impeller motors which would grind up live plankton. If it uses a roller on flexible pipe, a peristaltic device, squeezes tubing or alternates membranes then I am all for it. My impression of dosing pumps could be wrong and you could steer me to one that worked. Toms aqualifters work in such a way that I think little plankton damage will be done, but they are small and several would probably have to be ganged together. I need something to lift several gallons of concentrated zooplankton up about 5 feet for a few minutes every hour or two during the day. Ideally I'd like it to lift something as big as a brine shrimp and keep it alive, which I think is a different application than moving the small particles in blood. I don't know much about medicine and could be wrong on that. Let's keep thinking, somthing will come up. I thought that you would use the geyser pump for this application. No plankton death whatsoever and can lift more than 5' on air pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanglandJoshua March 7, 2012 Share March 7, 2012 I'm not familiar with the geyser pumps, but a while back I did see a company specializing in paristaltic pumps. They had some really large models. I will have to find it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanglandJoshua March 7, 2012 Share March 7, 2012 I just looked into a geyser pump the only downside I can see (if it works properly), is the noise. But a baffle or some form of muffler might limit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowieReefer84 March 7, 2012 Share March 7, 2012 Do you just need a pump to pump water up? I wouldn't use a dosing pump because of stuff staying in the line... Just a plain pump exiting above water to prevent the siphon should work right? Something like this: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/RULE-Pump-3P992?Pid=search OR, I could be completely off base of what you are looking for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave w March 7, 2012 Author Share March 7, 2012 Rob (zygote2k) You pointed me toward geyser pumps quite a while back, but I thought they were only good for a foot or two. I will look into them again. The escaping air will be noisy, but you're right that a muffler can be used or the air can be vented outside so that it can be made quieter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave w March 7, 2012 Author Share March 7, 2012 BowieReefer84, Good recommendation, but from what I can tell this sump is like the others that use an impeller. The sudden acceleration would kill much of the animals being pumped. I need a way to lift zooplankton up 5' without the shear pressure or acceleration of a 1750 rpm propeller. But your issue with water staying in the line of a dosing pump remains. So far the only ways I have thought to solve this would be to use a smaller diameter pipe so less materials remains in the line, and to use the system more frequently so that anaerobic conditions don't develop in the pipe. And you're right that the pipe exit should be above the display tank water line to prevent a backsiphon. Another solution would be to put the zooplankton culture water above the tank and do things by gravity, but 4,000 gallons is simply not practical for this application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave w March 8, 2012 Author Share March 8, 2012 I'm not familiar with the geyser pumps, but a while back I did see a company specializing in paristaltic pumps. They had some really large models. I will have to find it again. A peristaltic pump would probably be a perfect fit. It doesn't even need to be large because there should only a few gallons of concentrated zooplankton. Thanks for the help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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