Whats the difference between these LEDs & what everyone is using to mod their lights with?

[Jan]

I want a low heat bright light fixture for my seahorse tank. I'm seriosuly considering LED lighting and started looking into what is invovled in converting an existing light fixture. I came axcross LED's on waterproof stripping ready to mount, plug and play. Can these LED strips be used to modify an existing light fixture? These LEDs are used for cars, motocycles and boats. 4 1 watt LEDs light up my 75 gallon at night. i can only imagine what 40 would do. It's very inexpensive. What's the difference between this stuff and what everyone is using to mod their lights with? Can someone please explain this to me? I'm very ignorant about this stuff. Thanks.

http://www.superbrightleds.com/cgi-bin/store/index.cgi?action=DispPage&Page2Disp=%2Flight_bars-flexible.html

[zygote2k]

nice link-I might be getting one of the color changing bulbs with remote...

[Guest thefishman65]

They are very low power so you would need a lot of strips if you have any type of coral;. They take about 1/3 of a amp per strip with 60 sets of three in series. This means about 1/180 of an amp compared to a CREE whch runs from 1/3 to a whole amp.

 

The blues are in the wrong spectrum to get any "pop" from your corals.

 

 

[Jan]

This is what I needed to know. There are several places that sell all different kinds of LED in waterproof strips. I wonder if i can find the right ones?...hmm...I'll keep looking. Thank you, Rob.

J

They are very low power so you would need a lot of strips if you have any type of coral;. They take about 1/3 of a amp per strip with 60 sets of three in series. This means about 1/180 of an amp compared to a CREE whch runs from 1/3 to a whole amp.

 

The blues are in the wrong spectrum to get any "pop" from your corals.

 

 

Edited October 24, 2010 by Jan

[Jan]

Okay so I'm confused a little. What does amp have to do with wattage and what is CREE? If I would have been able to use x12-3 watt LED's why wouldn't I be able to use x36-1 watt LED's to get the same results? I have x4-1 watt LEDS on my 75 gallon and they light up my tank at night. 1 watt bright blue LED's are the same no matter what they're used for, aren't they? I have a flashlight with bright white and blue and it causes the colors in my coral to pop just like the moonlights on my 75. This is what got me thinking that there's an easier more inexpensive way to do this. I think it's worht a try. I'm going to order 5 strips (3 bright white and 2 bright blue all 6000K) and check it out. Total cost will be 45.00 not including shipping. If it doesn't work i'm sure my husband can find use for them.

[BowieReefer84]

Jan, I just ordered a 24 LED kit from rapidled. I am going to take lots of photos on the build. Once it is completed you are more than welcome to come check it out. It will be 12 royal blue and 12 cool white. The kit comes with CREE XP-G R5 whites, and XR-E blues. I am guessing it will be between a 150 and 250 halide? I am not familiar with LED's either, and just decided to take the plunge!

[Jan]

Thank you but I'm trying to figure out if other LED's would give the same output for less money. I just discovered that CREE is a brand name. I found their spec sheet and I'm going to compare it with what other less expensive LED put out. I'm thinking that if they also put out 6,000K then they're just as good. I'm not handy with these things and would never purchase a mod kit. It's way over my simple minded brain. Then there's the money factor....

 

Jan, I just ordered a 24 LED kit from rapidled. I am going to take lots of photos on the build. Once it is completed you are more than welcome to come check it out. It will be 12 royal blue and 12 cool white. The kit comes with CREE XP-G R5 whites, and XR-E blues. I am guessing it will be between a 150 and 250 halide? I am not familiar with LED's either, and just decided to take the plunge!

[BowieReefer84]

Thank you but I'm trying to figure out if other LED's would give the same output for less money. I just discovered that CREE is a brand name. I found their spec sheet and I'm going to compare it with what other less expensive LED put out. I'm thinking that if they also put out 6,000K then they're just as good. I'm not handy with these things and would never purchase a mod kit. It's way over my simple minded brain. Then there's the money factor....

 

 

Yea, I am NOT a diy either. I just figured why not . . .I do know one thing to look at is the angle of the lens. I think the XR-E cree is like 85 degrees and XP-G is like 115. This affects the output. I have seen they sell those waterproof strips on ebay. They come from China, and the quality can be suspect.

[dakotasreef]

Even thought you might end up with the same total wattage with your led strips, you will not have the same output as a 3 watt led. I have already installed a 24x3w diy cree led kit on my 120 and it is amazing. I am adding another one to my frag tank. The pop that I get from my leds is amazing.

[Guest thefishman65]

There are several ways to reate LEDs. I'll try and cover a few of them.

 

Spectrum: Most people have found that a mix of cool white and royal blues give good results. However, a few have mentioned that they want more red and are replacing some of the cool whites with neutral or warm whites. Royal blues run in the 450-460nm range this gives you the pop. If you get just the blue there will be less pop maybe non - never tried that so I can't tell you. I few folks are just starting to experiment in the violet range of 420 no results that I have seen. At this point I have found not seen any evidence that UV is needed. So in summary all 6500k LEDs will give the same color or close.

 

Watts: Watts is current times voltage. Really the deciding factor is lumens per watt. CREE is currently the most efficient. You can buy cheap LEDs and then pay for the electricity to run them or you can buy expensive LEDs and us less electricity. Remember the expected life of LEDs is 10 years. No matter what lighting system (LEDs, MH, flourescent, sun) you wou need the same amount of lumens. Perhaps I should have used PAR here, but I think you get the idea.

 

As some one mentioned above angle. One of the advantages of LEDs is that the light is directed. There is no light emitted behind the LEDs. I think the typical angle is 110-140 degrees. Think of it this way if an LED had an angle of 180 it would appear twice as bright as a standard buld with the lumen rating. The normal bulb would radiate half the light up where as the LED directs it all downward. You can buy lenses for LEDs which can be required for a deep tank to get enough light deep enough. You can also choose to light just a rock structure and leave the sane around it dark. So with good planning you can also save electricity by placing the light where needed. For instance I am trying hard in my DIY version to keep the light off the glass.

 

I hope this helps.

[Larry Grenier]

Keep digging Jan... this is good stuff. Your hubby can use your rejects in his music studio :-)

[Integral9]

I actually did a similar project with LEDs from the same people about 2 years ago. It turned out that what I was told wan't entirely accurate and I was only using 4W of LEDs instead of what I thought was going to be 48W. Still, the corals did well while the LEDs were running and the tank looked spectacular. Problems surfaced a few months after the project was completed when moisture and salt build up started to short circuit the LED circuit boards and knock them out 3 at a time. Eventually, I was forced to remove the coral due to inadequate lighting. So I'd say, make sure your LEDs are protected from the environment they are in or they will burn out quickly.

 

While all the LEDs were running I took PAR reading of that tank and my two other tanks for comparison. While the PAR readings I got were low comparitively, I did not notice any degradation in the corals until I started to loose banks of LEDs.

 

See my thread here: http://www.wamas.org/forums/topic/22312-diy-led-nano-lighting/page__p__196049__fromsearch__1entry196049

[Jan]

This is great! Thank you for posting.

 

I actually did a similar project with LEDs from the same people about 2 years ago. It turned out that what I was told wan't entirely accurate and I was only using 4W of LEDs instead of what I thought was going to be 48W. Still, the corals did well while the LEDs were running and the tank looked spectacular. Problems surfaced a few months after the project was completed when moisture and salt build up started to short circuit the LED circuit boards and knock them out 3 at a time. Eventually, I was forced to remove the coral due to inadequate lighting. So I'd say, make sure your LEDs are protected from the environment they are in or they will burn out quickly.

 

While all the LEDs were running I took PAR reading of that tank and my two other tanks for comparison. While the PAR readings I got were low comparitively, I did not notice any degradation in the corals until I started to loose banks of LEDs.

 

See my thread here: http://www.wamas.org..._1entry196049

[Larry Grenier]

Hey Jan & folks,

 

A concern I have is in the spectrum (nm). Geisman and other manufacturers have their actinic bulbs at or near 420nm. The increasingly popular Cree 3w royal blue is 450nm-460nm but it appears that the blues for these is at 470nm. No expert here but I wonder if this would be good enough for the actinic component of your lighting... I dunno

 

It looks like each bulb is 1/2 a watt or maybe less, so you'd need alot... Me thinks

 

I will add however that several folks have said that their Cree and Panorama LEDS closer to 450nm look great.

 

OK, experts, set us strait.

Edited October 26, 2010 by Larry Grenier

[Jan]

Yes, that's what Rob/Thefishman65, was saying. The lower wattage less expensive blues wont give off the same pop but this is where I'm confused I have x4 - 1 watt Lunar-Blue-moon-glow LEDS on my Aqualight PRO 150 light fixture that not only make the colors in my corals pop, but it lights up my 75 gallon tank. They are just 1 watt each at 470nm. Heres the spec sheet so everyone can see what type of LED is used for this fixture.

http://www.oceanicsy...s/006/12746.pdf

 

So I'm thinking x8-12 - 1/2 watt at 470nm or something similar would be fine for a 75. I want the light for a 35 gallon hex, which is deeper than my 75.

 

Hey Jan & folks,

 

A concern I have is in the spectrum (nm). Geisman and other manufacturers have their actinic bulbs at or near 420nm. The increasingly popular Cree 3w royal blue is 450nm-460nm but it appears that the blues for these is at 470nm. No expert here but I wonder if this would be good enough for the actinic component of your lighting... I dunno

 

It looks like each bulb is 1/2 a watt or maybe less, so you'd need alot... Me thinks

 

I will add however that several folks have said that their Cree and Panorama LEDS closer to 450nm look great.

 

OK, experts, set us strait.

Edited October 26, 2010 by Jan

[Guest thefishman65]

To bad we did not compare "pop" when I was over there the other day. Am I reading you correctly that you want 8 fixture of 12 LEDs at 1/2 watt each? That would be 48 watts. For CREE that would run around 24 LEDs or $144 for just the LEDs. What is the 12 LED fixture you are looking at or are you cutting the above strips?

[Jan]

I thought I showed you the moolights on my 75. No, I was just making a comparison of what I would need if I were doing something with LEDS for my 75 becaseu those 1 watt LEDs are incredibly bright. No, not 8 fixtures, just 8 LED's comparable to what I already have in the fixture for my 75 gal. You haven't seen the 35 gallon hex yet. I guesstimate that I would probably need 12-16 3 watt mixed, bright blue and white for the 35 gallon if I were to go with the 3 watt CREE. Double that for 1 watt of another bright LED.

 

Some months back I contacted Current and asked how much 4 LED replacement LEDs would cost for my light fixture. They replied by asking for my address. I sent them my address and about 5 days later received, free of charge, 4 new replacement units. I saved the old one which I just found. As we communicate I'm looking for the name of the mfr of these LEDs. If they are good enough for Current to use, and bright enough to light up my 75, then they should be good enough for what I want for my hex. I don't tend to go with the trend in many things in life. As you know there is always a hype with new equipment and we tend to set the pace and price only to find out later that there are others that are just as good. So my thinking is that CREE is not the be all and end all of LED aquarium lighting because nothing else has surfaced. I can see for myself what 1 watt of the current LED produces for my 75. If i could just find out who makes them or if I find that these are the ones I've been seeing from other mfrs, then why go with the more expensive CREE? It's logical to me.

 

To bad we did not compare "pop" when I was over there the other day. Am I reading you correctly that you want 8 fixture of 12 LEDs at 1/2 watt each? That would be 48 watts. For CREE that would run around 24 LEDs or $144 for just the LEDs. What is the 12 LED fixture you are looking at or are you cutting the above strips?

Edited October 26, 2010 by Jan

[Jan]

I also like to post these things to the group because as we've found out from Integral9 the less expensive LED's have been used successfully. The only issue he had was that the housing was not waterproofed enough. He had success in brightness, color and growth.

Edited October 26, 2010 by Jan

[BowieReefer84]

I traded a couple SPS frags to a member with a 300Gal sps tank. He told me he uses these LED strips as well. More as a supplement, rather than the only source of light. He was happy with them he said. I will post the info...

[Guest thefishman65]

I don't remember seeing just the moon lights, but maybe I forgot. As i mentioned above there is spectrum and lumens/watt. The problem is that no one knows for sure (that I have seen) how many lumens coral X needs. There are ranges for different type and you will need a lot of 1 watt LEDs I think, but then again it depends on what you want. The eye needs about a 50% change in light to see a difference. From what I have read people are aiming for 200 par on the bottom. The eye can't tell much difference between 100 and 200, but corals can it appears.

 

Do you have access to a PAR meter?

Edited October 26, 2010 by thefishman65

[BowieReefer84]

This is from a fellow member via PM. He has a very nice tank.

 

"I use these for moon light but you can use them to supplement your cube. I put them inside the rim of my luminarc reflectors and they work very well as a moonlight. They are waterproof and you can put them anywhere inside your hood. Each strip is 120cm or about 46" and can put out about 10W of LED light...that's a lot. You need a 12V transformer. Cut off the distal plug and connect the loose wire directly... or solder the strip to a female plug that will you accept the male plug connected to your transformer. Most of us have at least 1-2 12V transformer sitting around the house from who knows when. They are commonly used as battery/cell phone/lap top/small appliance charger. I think you need at least a 2A transformer to get the brighter light output. I use a 3A 12V transformer to drive my 2 strips. That is plenty to light up my 300g at night. You can use a lower Amp transformer but the light will also be dimmer but last much longer...if you prefer that. They are also relatively safe to work with being low voltage.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/120CM-CAR-PVC-STRIP-BLUE-LED-FLEXIBLE-LIGHT-BAR-LB-023B-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3360ef156aQQitemZ220669613418QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories#ht_2912wt_1024

 

You can run 2-3 120cm strips with one 3A 12v power supply. You can solder the wires to a female plug then you have a clean built with a quick disconnect. I think you can find a female plug at a local Radio Shack. The easy way would be to cut off the male plug (yes...the end that fits into the laptop), strip the wires and connect them directly to the wire coming out of the LED strip. Good luck."

 

Not sure how this would work as the ONLY light source. As he stated he uses them as moonlights... But, I think the info was worth mentioning.

[Jan]

I see. No, I don't have access to a PAR meter. I'm supposed to be on the list here. If i'm still on the list there are a few folks ahead of me.

 

I don't remember seeing just the moon lights, but maybe I forgot. As i mentioned above there is spectrum and lumens/watt. The problem is that no one knows for sure (that I have seen) how many lumens coral X needs. There are ranges for different type and you will need a lot of 1 watt LEDs I think, but then again it depends on what you want. The eye needs about a 50% change in light to see a difference. From what I have read people are aiming for 200 par on the bottom. The eye can't tell much difference between 100 and 200, but corals can it appears.

 

Do you have access to a PAR meter?

[Jan]

This is what I'm thinking

x1'- Waterproof Dimmable LED Strip Light High Brightness with 5050 LEDs, 60/m, (Blue 472 nm) 6500K 50 watts

 

x1'-Waterproof Dimmable LED Strip Light High Brightness with 5050 LEDs, 60/m, (Daylight White)

 

Wattage-Actual (W): 50

Brightness: 739 lumens/meter

CRI: 66Light

Color: Daylight White

Color Temp. (°K): 6500

Number of LEDs: 60/meter

LED Spacing: 0.66 in

Minimum Cutting: 1.97 in

Length: 16.40 ft

Width: 0.51 in

Height: 0.16 in

Average Lifetime: 50,000 hours

Voltage: 12 DC

Rating: ROHS

 

This is all essentially plug and play- no need to solder, drill or place in heat sinks. They will attach directly to an existing hood w/splash guard.

 

Here's the catalog http://www.environme...hts_catalog.pdf

 

According to the salesperson I spoke with all I need is a 12 volt ac adapter and 2 connectors to fire these up. I don't need the dimmer.

 

I think it's worth trying for under $60.00. What do you think?

Edited October 26, 2010 by Jan

[Guest thefishman65]

How many feet of each are you going to have? I am going to guess about 18 inches of each. So 739 * 36 / 39.37 will give about 675 lumens (this assumes white and blue are the same). For 675 lumens you would need about 6 CREE LEDs which would run $30-$42 dollars (sorry no up on my pricing) and a $10 driver. About the same price. That would also be driving the Crees at about 1 watt. So lets say 6 watts of power. The strips use 50watts for 5 meters or about 9 watts for 3 feet. So you will use 50% more power on the strips. 3 watts * 50,000 hours * $0.12 / kw = $18 more to run them over there expected life.

 

I realize the $18 is not much over probably 10 years, but for people thinking of larger designs the numbers scale.

[Jan]

I figure 2-3 feet/100-150 watts for the 35 gallon. It's a softie, seahorse and non photosynthetic system so the low light will be fine as long as it's bright and the colors pop. So for pretty much the same amount of money we'd get the same amount of light. What kind of labor are we looking at if we use CREE LEDS as opposed to these waterproof plug in strips? Do we need to create hosuing for the CREE unit or can we use exisiting housing/light shell? With the strips I can purchase mounts that attach to my exisiting housing for about $2.00/ea. I also wont need a heat sink or fan.

 

So maybe creating an LED unit using supplies from the site I've listed would be the way to go for low light systems as well as smaller, Nano and pico, systems. Still if you quadruple those numbers you'd be able to create a great light for a larger system that is less labor intensive at a lesser cost for parts. The cost, $72.00 more over a $10/yr period, would be pennies in comparison to the grand scheme;No?

Edited October 26, 2010 by Jan