Sliding sump

[Chad]

Ok, so I am sure that I am not the only one who randomly considers what their next system will look like and works on solving potential design problems in advance... or am I? hehe

 

With that being said, the thing that I am currently working on is how to make a sump easily and reliably slide out from underneath a tank for servicing (ahh, the ever elusive maximum utilization within minimum space).

 

I decided that the maximum size for my little thought experiment would be 1000 pounds (roughly 100 gallons of water with tank, equipment and anything else in there), what I consider to be a reasonably conservative estimate.

 

Two basic problems became immediately apparent when I started working on this:

 

1) Hose and electrical wire routing (easily solved by a cable chain), sure the hoses and cables would need to be a little longer, and some further head loss considerations would be needed, but I think large radius bends would make that a relatively moot point.

 

2) I think any use of a drawer would be a really bad idea based on changes in the whole setups center of gravity and potential tipping besides the drawer hardware would be REALLY difficult to service should any issue arise along the way. Basically this means that something like a straight caster in a channel could work. However, this would require a smooth, flat floor (i.e., not carpet) or the channel extending beyond the cabinet (not particularly appealing, so I am thinking of some means of extending the channel).

 

Anyone thought about doing or has actually done something like this? And how about, does anyone know some of the technical data for standard electrical power cables used on our stuff (AWG rating, min bend radius, weight, stuff like that)? How about the channel extension, anyone know of a good hinge with a smooth internal surface that a solid caster could roll over without too much difficulty?

 

I know I am nuking it out, but that is what I do

Edited August 9, 2010 by Chad

[extreme_tooth_decay]

I tried to move a tank once that was filled with water and it broke (I think it was a 20L).

 

I think the water just had too much inertia...the glass tank moved, but the water did not.

 

Maybe if it moves very slowly it might work, but I wouldn't mess with it again. I would definitely use acrylic if I did try it again, even though I hate acrylic, this is an application that makes sense for it.

[Der ABT]

I used to have a 29g on HD sliders from homedepot and it actually wored as long as i drained a little water outta it, i had mine below a 75g tank and had built up the stand so that it was wide enough for the sump to slide out. truthfully i ended up using it alot less then i thought i would.

but that being said there are definately better ways to doit, i know there are some better sliders out there i just didnt feel like ordering them and having to wait. if they had been better sliders i think it would have worked great.

im sure there aer other ways to do it, but for the 5 bucks i spent it was perfect. i just had to rout out some slots for the sliders and had it rest on its on piece of wood.

 

good luck with it though, post up some pics of the progress.

[randumbwit]

My thought would be that with a 100 gallon sump, you're most likely dealing with a 6' + length display tank. If I were trying to do something like this, I would want the sump to move forward or back out of the stand, not to the side so that you can have access to the complete tank while moving it as little as possible. I'd make sure that my stand allowed for that. What you're talking about (casters in a track of some sort) would definitely work, I've done it with heavy objects that had to slide out like this before. I WOULD consider what the previous poster said as well. You don't want fast or jerky motion, so I would look at using gears/chains(extremely well lubed of course) and a crank of some sort to very smoothly move the tank back and forth. The one other way I've used to slide very large/heavy objects very successfully in the past was a roller system, that I'm not sure would work in this case. http://www.theonlinecatalog.com/advancedhandling/store/Conveyors/SKATEWHEELCONVEYORS/

Something like that could be extended out of the back of the stand(to try and hide it as much as possible). With the sump tank on a base that slid with it

[jason the filter freak]

When I worked at pet smart we had a 80 gallon bow front with a 30 gallon HOB sump on casters that we moved all the time, just let the power cut the tank would drop 3-4" as the over flow filled up. It took two people to move but pushing it from here to here could be done fairly readily.

[Chad]

I hadn't put much thought into the inertia of water during moves issue... I have also broken a tank by moving it (I think mine was a 20xh).

 

Should be solvable by installing a hand crank or overbuilding the sump tank somewhat... although adding too much stuff takes away the simplicity and makes me wonder if a three side removable stand is a better option. It would be cool to have full top access to an in-stand frag tank or sump, though!!

[Chad]

When I worked at pet smart we had a 80 gallon bow front with a 30 gallon HOB sump on casters that we moved all the time, just let the power cut the tank would drop 3-4" as the over flow filled up. It took two people to move but pushing it from here to here could be done fairly readily.

 

How do you think the mobility would have been on carpet?

[BowieReefer84]

Why not put a couple engine lifts in your ceiling to pick up the tank instead of trying to slide out a 1,000lb sump? That would give you top down acess.

 

Seriously, are you able to put the sump in a basement or behind the display room? This would be easier than what you are trying imo. Easier to drill a couple holes than anything else. Not sure if this is an option for your install.

[Chad]

Why not put a couple engine lifts in your ceiling to pick up the tank instead of trying to slide out a 1,000lb sump? That would give you top down acess. Seriously, are you able to put the sump in a basement or behind the display room? This would be easier than what you are trying imo. Easier to drill a couple holes than anything else. Not sure if this is an option for your install.

 

I agree, that would be WAY easier and it is exactly what I would do if I had the space available to do it. This is more of an evaluation of alternatives to determine if it is feasible and what it would take to do it... then I found some cool equipment and the gears really got turning I am far from convinced that a sliding sump is something that would be worthwhile, but I am not done thinking about it quite yet... My gut is telling me that, while completely doable, having a stand with three removable sides is a simpler option that accomplishes most of the objective. I figured I would throw the idea out and see if there was anything that I had missed.

 

Although, now that I have the idea of using a cherry picker or two... haha hmmm, I think I am going to install a massive I beam and a crane above my tank to accomplish this!!

Edited August 9, 2010 by Chad

[BowieReefer84]

I agree, that would be WAY easier and it is exactly what I would do if I had the space available to do it. This is more of an evaluation of alternatives to determine if it is feasible and what it would take to do it... then I found some cool equipment and the gears really got turning I am far from convinced that a sliding sump is something that would be worthwhile, but I am not done thinking about it quite yet... My gut is telling me that, while completely doable, having a stand with three removable sides is a simpler option that accomplishes most of the objective. I figured I would throw the idea out and see if there was anything that I had missed.

 

Although, now that I have the idea of using a cherry picker or two... haha hmmm, I think I am going to install a massive I beam and a crane above my tank to accomplish this!!

 

 

You could put two sumps under your tank. A big one with all the water and rock etc, and a smaller one with equipment (pump, skimmer, heater etc.). Then just fix it so the smaller one slides out. Not sure how to go about this, but it seems feasible in theory.

[Brian Ward]

I have my sump on high-capacity slides. I never use them because of the tipping issue and the hard plumbing to the pump, and now that they've been there a while they're becoming covered with salt creep. In addition, the occasional overflow has caused them to rust. I thought I could make it work, but I couldn't. I don't think I'll worry about doing something like that again.

[treesprite]

Just in response to other people saying smaller tanks broke - I always put QT (ranging 10 to 20g) on a dolly to move around, because of my space restrictions, and I've had no problems at all. Maybe ya all are just moving too fast.

[fogcutter]

I've been following this thread on RC. This guy was building a system in a confined space and wanted a way to lift the whole assembly up for maintenance and access to his sump etc. Of course he has some mad fabricating skills and it's an awesome build.